77 replies to this topic

[Rebas Kradd]

Tice Daurus, on 22 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but I have a problem with this statement from Matt here.

First off, while you state that you bought the rights to the engine and had support from the start, albeit limited, Crytek has offices in Chicago with staff to troubleshoot problems in NA, located in Chicago. You guys are located in Vancouver. Chicago is in a CST time zone and you guys are PST time zone, a 2 hour difference. So how is this Crytek's fault when you are contacting Germany for support? Because of your limited contract that you have to contact the German office and you cannot reach out to the NA/Chicago office for support?

Also per Sean's initial post, this contradicts his earlier post in which states PGI "hadn't worked with Crytek or Scaleform technologies". This contradicts your post Matt. So who are we to believe? What are we to believe? And how can we believe PGI's words when you have in the past said "That was our position at the time, and now this is..."

I'm sorry but Sean's statement and your statements do not add up as correct. In order to clarify this, I'm inviting you to come back here and further clarify your statements and as to why you are not using Crytek's NA division offices and only using the offices in Germany. Is it due to your supposed limited support contract you're now saying you had initially from the start? Because again of the conflicting back and forth here, this does not make sense.

What exactly do YOU think is going on here? Do you really think they're lying to you? Are you and the other guy really hoping to expose PGI as a bunch of stoners sitting around their offices playing with slinkies and downloading porn for weeks on end? I'm all for communication, but you're pouncing on an inconsistency that's probably perfectly trivial and easily reconciled. If inconsistencies of this level were significant, then the moon landing is a hoax, because the astronauts' recollections contain the same thing.

Some of you guys just need to chillax...

[BlackBeltJones]

Imagine if PGI utilized CryTek support for UI2.0. The delay due to the time-zone management may have eaten up years.

[Heffay]

Rebas Kradd, on 22 February 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

What exactly do YOU think is going on here? Do you really think they're lying to you?

That is exactly what he thinks. He's posted several times on the Star Citizen forums how he believes that PGI is lying about this (and all kinds of other things).

[Heffay]

BlackBeltJones, on 22 February 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

Imagine if PGI utilized CryTek support for UI2.0. The delay due to the time-zone management may have eaten up years.

Is Crytek a scaleform developer? That's news to me!

[Tice Daurus]

Don't put words in my mouth Heffay. What I am exactly saying is this...PGI's words are suspect and they owe us, their customers who PAID into their game the whole truth. They've 'changed their position' in the past more than once.

We're not going to add coolant shots. (Coolant shots were added and incorrectly per BattleTech rules, because PGI feels they don't need to stick to or adhere to them)
This will always be a 1PV game. (They later changed that and now the game has 3pv)
We're not going to mix 3rd person and 1st person queues together. (3PV/1PV mixed together)

Now, it's from Sean's post that they didn't have Crytek or Scaleform support. Now Matt says different. I'm sorry, but I'm no trying to be antagonistic, I am asking, politely for full disclosure and clarification. If I've spent my hard earned money into product, like a car, if they car company maker lies, for example, take Kia. They got caught lying that their cars from 2011-2013 were meeting US government official standards in certain cases of 40 MPG or better when in fact they lied and they got caught and had to pay back the customers for lost monies from inaccurately and falsely stating otherwise. When a company or corporation lies to sell a product that is considered false, misleading, or even fraudulent.

Now I'm not saying that is the case here with PGI. I honestly do not know WHAT to believe anymore which is why I am offering PGI to come here and clarify and explain further so there is no confusion whatsoever.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

And like the famous song of the Who says "We won't get fooled again...nono noooooo...."

[BlackBeltJones]

Heffay, on 22 February 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

Is Crytek a scaleform developer? That's news to me!

Hello Friend,

I am certain you can appreciate the purpose of my comment, whether you agree with it or not. Your reply, while accurate is not applicable to the obvious intent of my post. It may have been more appropriate for me to point out the irony of PGI being able to administer a system that lets me shoot a (virtual) laser from my desk to the desk of someone in the Ukraine with near perfect pinpoint precision almost instantaneously yet they are befuddled by time-zones.

[DragonsFire]

Tice Daurus, on 22 February 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

<snip>

Edit: I see that you may have gleaned the location from a post of the support map and/or previous posts in this thread, neither of which are accurate unfortunately.

Tice, you mentioned an office for Crytek in Chicago. However, when you you visit the Crytek page, there is no office listed for Chicago. Currently, the first and only North American based Crytek office is located in Austin, Texas, and it was only opened a year ago. You can view that information here: http://www.crytek.co...overview/austin

Perhaps you are privy to information that we are not privy to, but by all accounts there is no Chicago office. Further it seems that the Austin office is a development based office and not support, which can be seen in this article: http://www.ign.com/a...s-up-crytek-usa

Again, if there is information to show otherwise, then it is certainly not readily available. I would wager, given the setup of that office that even if they do any sort of support function it would be tier 1 type stuff, but that is just a best guess based on their previous employment at Vigil studios and the newness of the office itself.

As to the actual support being 12 hours behind, that may not seem like a big deal, but you're talking half a day difference in time zone. When multiple folks, working on multiple elements of a section of code, are waiting on your element to compile the branch, that difference adds up very quickly. Time delay (and not to mention potential language barriers) can extend a mundane 1 week to resolve issue into a 4 weeks to a partial fix issue. It may not be a constant happening but it's not far from common either.

Edited by DragonsFire, 22 February 2014 - 05:08 PM.

[Heffay]

DragonsFire, on 22 February 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

Edit: I see that you may have gleaned the location from a post of the support map and/or previous posts in this thread, neither of which are accurate unfortunately.

Tice, you mentioned an office for Crytek in Chicago. However, when you you visit the Crytek page, there is no office listed for Chicago. Currently, the first and only North American based Crytek office is located in Austin, Texas, and it was only opened a year ago. You can view that information here: http://www.crytek.co...overview/austin

Perhaps you are privy to information that we are not privy to, but by all accounts there is no Chicago office. Further it seems that the Austin office is a development based office and not support, which can be seen in this article: http://www.ign.com/a...s-up-crytek-usa Again, if there is information to show otherwise, then it is certainly not readily available. I would wager, given the setup of that office that even if they do any sort of support function it would be tier 1 type stuff, but that is just a best guess based on their previous employment at Vigil studios and the newness of the office itself.

As to the actual support being 12 hours behind, that may not seem like a big deal, but you're talking half a day difference in time zone. When multiple folks, working on multiple elements of a section of code, are waiting on your element to compile the branch, that difference adds up very quickly. Time delay (and not to mention potential language barriers) can extend a mundane 1 week to resolve issue into a 4 weeks to a partial fix issue. It may not be a constant happening but it's not far from common either.

He's not privy to any insider info. He heard someone else say that the pin on the map looks like it is in Chicago, and therefore assumed that Crytek's office was therefore in Chicago. That is the level of research he is doing when deciding what is truth and what is just another PGI lie.

Take this into account when you read the rest of his comments, especially about how Crytek coming over to help them with training means that PGI didn't have a support contract. Crytek apparently is in the business of flying teams over to Vancouver to hep a customer with no support contract for free...

[Steadfast]

Quote

UI 2.0 discussion

Initial thoughts? Are you happy? Yes, happy with what we achieved in 6 months

Six. Months? SIX MONTHS?

[Heffay]

Steadfast, on 23 February 2014 - 01:34 AM, said:

Six. Months? SIX MONTHS?

It's not just a UI.

[Tice Daurus]

Quote

He's not privy to any insider info. He heard someone else say that the pin on the map looks like it is in Chicago, and therefore assumed that Crytek's office was therefore in Chicago. That is the level of research he is doing when deciding what is truth and what is just another PGI lie.

Take this into account when you read the rest of his comments, especially about how Crytek coming over to help them with training means that PGI didn't have a support contract. Crytek apparently is in the business of flying teams over to Vancouver to hep a customer with no support contract for free...

Ok first off...I would like to apologize for spreading inaccurate information. I did base my information from an earlier poster that had said that there was an office in Chicago. However I am not LYING as you have alluded. Don't attack me because I find PGI's words suspect because they have lied in the past repeatedly. Scratch that, that was their position at the time.

Even so...this does not change my questions because even still, doing the research on Wikipedia, their office was opened in January 2013. Even giving them say a month to get acclimated, PGI couldn't call their NA office for help say by e-mail, or phone or video conference. They don't HAVE to fly out to Vancouver. So once again, I'm asking, politely, for more clarification from PGI so we can settle this politely and quietly if they did have a contract, when it started, and if they did have limited support, does that mean that they have to contact the German office only or could they have reached out to the NA office say via phone, e-mail, or video conference for help?

And let's try to keep the attacks out of it here. I'm asking for answers here because I would like to know the full disclosure here with better answers and communication since I have in the past paid PGI for services since I have been in the past a paying customer. I would like to know.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 23 February 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Tice Daurus, on 23 February 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

Ok first off...I would like to apologize for spreading inaccurate information. I did base my information from an earlier poster that had said that there was an office in Chicago. However I am not LYING as you have alluded. Don't attack me because I find PGI's words suspect because they have lied in the past repeatedly. Scratch that, that was their position at the time.

Even so...this does not change my questions because even still, doing the research on Wikipedia, their office was opened in January 2013. Even giving them say a month to get acclimated, PGI couldn't call their NA office for help say by e-mail, or phone or video conference. They don't HAVE to fly out to Vancouver. So once again, I'm asking, politely, for more clarification from PGI so we can settle this politely and quietly if they did have a contract, when it started, and if they did have limited support, does that mean that they have to contact the German office only or could they have reached out to the NA office say via phone, e-mail, or video conference for help?

And let's try to keep the attacks out of it here. I'm asking for answers here because I would like to know the full disclosure here with better answers and communication since I have in the past paid PGI for services since I have been in the past a paying customer. I would like to know.

Why? What difference does it make?
I hope you are as vehement in asking for disclosure on Benghazi, FCC, IRS, NSA, DHS, etc if you really are that big of a truth seeker.

[Heffay]

Roadbeer, on 23 February 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

Why? What difference does it make?
I hope you are as vehement in asking for disclosure on Benghazi, FCC, IRS, NSA, DHS, etc if you really are that big of a truth seeker.

He also conveniently ignores the fact that the Austin office is a developer studio, and not a support office.

[Rebas Kradd]

Tice Daurus, on 23 February 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

And let's try to keep the attacks out of it here. I'm asking for answers here because I would like to know the full disclosure here with better answers and communication since I have in the past paid PGI for services since I have been in the past a paying customer. I would like to know.

I have no objection to more information, I'd like to know it myself.

But I don't see a big shady secret being suppressed here, and I'm certainly not motivated by angst over 3PV and consumables. For pete's sake, move on already. You will never be able to prove that they lied over these things; as unsatisfying as it is, it's much easier to explain that as PGI changing their position. And if you are such a BT purist that you cannot deal with developers changing their minds on your favorite design pillars and it's going to cause you to question much, much less significant statements, it just sounds like you've lost all perspective.

[DragonsFire]

Tice Daurus, on 23 February 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

Ok first off...I would like to apologize for spreading inaccurate information. I did base my information from an earlier poster that had said that there was an office in Chicago. However I am not LYING as you have alluded. Don't attack me because I find PGI's words suspect because they have lied in the past repeatedly. Scratch that, that was their position at the time.

Even so...this does not change my questions because even still, doing the research on Wikipedia, their office was opened in January 2013. Even giving them say a month to get acclimated, PGI couldn't call their NA office for help say by e-mail, or phone or video conference. They don't HAVE to fly out to Vancouver. So once again, I'm asking, politely, for more clarification from PGI so we can settle this politely and quietly if they did have a contract, when it started, and if they did have limited support, does that mean that they have to contact the German office only or could they have reached out to the NA office say via phone, e-mail, or video conference for help?

And let's try to keep the attacks out of it here. I'm asking for answers here because I would like to know the full disclosure here with better answers and communication since I have in the past paid PGI for services since I have been in the past a paying customer. I would like to know.

Tice, I would ask that you re-read the second portion of my post as to the why of that office not handling support functions. It's certainly possible that I am wrong, but given that the majority of employees there were from a previous dev shop and picked up by Crytek, I would not be surprised if their function from a support perspective is limited (ie Tier 1) at best. I could be completely wrong in this of course, but a few articles aside from what I have linked point this group as being game development based and not on the support side of the house.

Edit: I can link said articles if you would like although a quick Google of Crytek, Austin, Vigil will yield similar results. I also hope you realize that I am not attempting to attack you here, merely just filling in gaps in information that seem to be otherwise missing.

Edited by DragonsFire, 23 February 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[Tice Daurus]

Quote

I have no objection to more information, I'd like to know it myself.

But I don't see a big shady secret being suppressed here, and I'm certainly not motivated by angst over 3PV and consumables. For pete's sake, move on already. You will never be able to prove that they lied over these things; as unsatisfying as it is, it's much easier to explain that as PGI changing their position. And if you are such a BT purist that you cannot deal with developers changing their minds on your favorite design pillars and it's going to cause you to question much, much less significant statements, it just sounds like you've lost all perspective.

Thank you Rebas. At least some people on here are able to listen.

Look, I'm not unreasonable here. If I'm wrong, or if I don't have the correct information, I can take it in, listen to it, and respond and apologize if I'm wrong.

And it's not that I'm such a purist for the BT rules, as I've been here on the past and said that as long as it makes common sense, some of the BT rules could be bent or broken. For example, the bridge in River City. You got multiple 100-ton Atlai running across that bridge at once when anything over just one - 90 ton mech collapses a bridge. I'm ok with that. Some rules don't need to be adhered to in the game to make it fun.

But when PGI constantly changes positions like a woman changing their shoes or a for this year's Gucci handbag model, or they can't be straightforward with us, it causes me to question what they say is the truth. And because I paid into this game with my money, regardless if they say it was for early access to the game, (which is a crock because I still have the e-mail where they invited me to Closed Beta test), I paid into the game with my hard earned money. All I am asking for is the truth and to be held accountable for what they promise. And if they can't live up to what they promise, I want to know WHY, with a reasonable apology and what they plan to do to fix it. That's not unreasonable.

But because I'm critical of this game and the developers here, and I'm asking for answers, people have to jump all over me because I'm attacking PGI. I still want this game to succeed and thrive. I still love BattleTech and MechWarrior. But I don't like when someone lies or is dishonest. Now I'm not saying that PGI has done that, I'm not going to attack them. But I want the truth, and that is something EVERYONE is owed. Lie to me and all respect is gone. That's all I'm saying and I'm jut asking for a honest answer, and right now, I'm not sure we're getting one.

And to respond to DF's recent post, I agree that you could be right and that may be the case. However since I am not privy to Crytek's business dealings, I don't know if that is indeed the case or not. Thus I am asking for more information and clarification from PGI regarding this is all. If they want to respond, great, but if not, that's fine by me also. I'm not demanding it, because they could be busy working. But if the choose to or not, either way, they're choice.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 23 February 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[Heffay]

Tice Daurus, on 23 February 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

But I don't like when someone lies or is dishonest. Now I'm not saying that PGI has done that, I'm not going to attack them. But I want the truth, and that is something EVERYONE is owed. Lie to me and all respect is gone. That's all I'm saying and I'm jut asking for a honest answer, and right now, I'm not sure we're getting one.

I'm sorry, but you've already stated countless times straight up that PGI lied about this.

[Hexenhammer]

Tice Daurus, on 22 February 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Don't put words in my mouth Heffay. What I am exactly saying is this...PGI's words are suspect and they owe us, their customers who PAID into their game the whole truth. They've 'changed their position' in the past more than once.

PGI: The whole truth and nothing bt the truth is.... blah blah blah....

Responce by unnamed person. "That's not the truth! You're liars every last one of you."

Dude you're so angry it doesn't matter what PGI says or does, you're going to call them liars. We get it. We've seen it before. Some of us have been you before and you know what? Its a phase you get over or you leave. Either way this game goes on.

Edited by Hexenhammer, 23 February 2014 - 05:16 PM.

[Heffay]

He also thinks I'm in some sort of relationship (paid, official, agreement, whatever) with PGI to post on the Star Citizen forums, and every time I tell him otherwise, he thinks I'm just lying too. His proof: I've been asked by NGNG to drop with them before when I'm watching their Twitch stream and I was invited (but did not attend) to the launch party.

https://forums.rober...Comment_1990365

[Tice Daurus]

I'm sorry, but for Roodbeer, Hex, Heffay, thank you for re-establishing my point that I'm trying to ask some questions and trying to get some answers and your toxicity here in constantly attacking me is just establishing my point of you white-knighting MW:O and why these forums are indeed too toxic to be here.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 24 February 2014 - 05:44 AM.