404 replies to this topic

[Varent]

Couple ideas ive been playing around with. Just wanted to mess with CD and heat so far as well as HP mostly since I felt that would make certain ac on certain chasis more or less favorable depending. Those being the perks and detractors. This could be a possible model on how to change the ac into variations that would allow both sides to have a nice little taste. Keep in mind these numbers are in relation to the idea that there would also be variations on lasers and other weapons, so while lowering CD on some weapons may make people go "OMG NO!" keep in mind that CD and pulse rate on lasers of certain manufacturers would be tweaked as well, also realize the things with CD lowered are not lowered by much or are given very large burst times etc.

Now also note though this is so far somewhat incomplete and needs work that this is an exact list from sarna as far as manufacturers and where they are manufacturered. Some model types are more or less common and are represented as such. To get a very good weapon in a CW setting (if they one you have is destroyed) you would need to go all the way to that planet to pick one up, meaning travel time etc. Unless your willing to take one from the nearest vendor, wich could be sub par to the specific play style you want to use. Adapting will be needed an add a good overall feel.

There could be options I suppose also of making a few generic brands of AC that you could replace more easily but perhaps have them have major downsides such as +3 heat... or +2 additional cooldown...etc... to represent you are getting a sub par weapon until you make the trip to replace the specific gun you lost in a fight. Also makes people more cautious while engaging and wanting to protect there guns perhaps.

Of a last note this is a total rough draft idea that im mostly tossing out to get feed back back on and would like suggestions on other numbers to tweak (regardless of weight and size, since that would ruin alot of stock builds). Ammo capacity could perhaps be interesting as well, clip size ya know.

thoughts?

AC-20

ChemJet Gun 185mm - 1 round +2.5 second cooldown.
Manufactured by Aldis Industries on Terra and Betelegeuse
Manufactured by New Samarkand Metals on New Samarkand

Armstrong Requiem - 4 round burst .25 second burst -1 heat
Manufactured by United Outworlders Corporation on Ramora

Crusher SH cannon - 10 round burst .5 second burst. -1 second CD.
Manufactured by Quickscell Company on Kalidasa
Manufactured by Ceres Metals Industries on Indicass

Defiance Mech Hunter - 4 round burst over 1.2 seconds. .3 seconds in between each shell. -1.5 CD.
Manufactured by Defiance Industries on Hesperus II

Imerator Zeta-A - 10 round burst .4 second burst -.5 cd -2 heat.
Manufactured by Imperator Automatic Weaponary on Atreus

Kali Yama Big Bore - 1 round +2.5 second CD Double HP
Manufactured by Kali Yama Weapon Industries Incorporated on Kalidasa

Luxor Devastator-20 - 4 rounds, .5 second delay between rounds. -2 second cooldown. (ac2 fire rate)
Manufactured by Johnston Industries on New Sytris

Mydron A - 4 round burst .25 second burst -.5 CD
Manufactured by Bithinian Ballistics on Bithinia
Manufactured by yeffters weapons factory on gulkana

Pontiac 100 - 2 Round Burst .35 second burst -1 heat
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

Scarborough - 5 round .25 second burst -1 heat Double HP
Manufactured by Scarborough Manufacturers on Al na'ir
Manufactured by Scarborough Limited on Scarborough

Edited by Varent, 07 March 2014 - 08:24 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Varent, on 07 March 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Couple ideas ive been playing around with. Just wanted to mess with CD and heat so far as well as HP mostly since I felt that would make certain ac on certain chasis more or less favorable depending. Those being the perks and detractors. This could be a possible model on how to change the ac into variations that would allow both sides to have a nice little taste. Keep in mind these numbers are in relation to the idea that there would also be variations on lasers and other weapons, so while lowering CD on some weapons may make people go "OMG NO!" keep in mind that CD and pulse rate on lasers of certain manufacturers would be tweaked as well, also realize the things with CD lowered are not lowered by much or are given very large burst times etc.

I like the idea, although for the burst, is that going to be substracted from the total cooldown, or get the laser+gauss treatment where it adds to the total cooldown?

Pontiac 100 - 2 Round Burst .35 second burst -1 heat
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

As for the Pontiac...I thought it was a 100 shot AC? More than 2 shots would be nice....maybe 20? Hitreg should be able to handle that. I want the option for excessive dakka.

[Cimarb]

So want damage are these variations doing per trigger pull? The Crusher SH has a combined cooldown of 1.5 seconds, so how much damage is it doing in that 10 round burst?

I am all for this stuff, and my post was along the same lines but based off of DPS (which is what autocannons are classified by). Flesh it out more with stats though (damage, heat, etc).

[Varent]

Mcgral18, on 07 March 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

I like the idea, although for the burst, is that going to be substracted from the total cooldown, or get the laser+gauss treatment where it adds to the total cooldown?

Pontiac 100 - 2 Round Burst .35 second burst -1 heat
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

As for the Pontiac...I thought it was a 100 shot AC? More than 2 shots would be nice....maybe 20? Hitreg should be able to handle that. I want the option for excessive dakka.

I couldnt find anything lore wise to support a 100 shots and was just trying to make some interesting options, thought a 1-2 punch would be neat. Also multiple items flying through the air seems to not work were on there system. Hence the reason why srm hit detection is so borked.

As far as burst time. I would like to see the cooldown refreshing as soon as the rounds are being fired, not added to the overall cooldown myself. Since this works directly into how some of the mechanics of the weapons work. Like for example one of them being made into a non stop uac5. Wich seems powerful at first until you realize how much weight and size are going into it, wich I feel is fair.

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 07 March 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

So want damage are these variations doing per trigger pull? The Crusher SH has a combined cooldown of 1.5 seconds, so how much damage is it doing in that 10 round burst?

I am all for this stuff, and my post was along the same lines but based off of DPS (which is what autocannons are classified by). Flesh it out more with stats though (damage, heat, etc).

its not a combined CD, cd would start the moment the first round starts leaving the barel.

[Varent]

Varent, on 07 March 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Couple ideas ive been playing around with. Just wanted to mess with CD and heat so far as well as HP mostly since I felt that would make certain ac on certain chasis more or less favorable depending. Those being the perks and detractors. This could be a possible model on how to change the ac into variations that would allow both sides to have a nice little taste. Keep in mind these numbers are in relation to the idea that there would also be variations on lasers and other weapons, so while lowering CD on some weapons may make people go "OMG NO!" keep in mind that CD and pulse rate on lasers of certain manufacturers would be tweaked as well, also realize the things with CD lowered are not lowered by much or are given very large burst times etc.

Now also note though this is so far somewhat incomplete and needs work that this is an exact list from sarna as far as manufacturers and where they are manufacturered. Some model types are more or less common and are represented as such. To get a very good weapon in a CW setting (if they one you have is destroyed) you would need to go all the way to that planet to pick one up, meaning travel time etc. Unless your willing to take one from the nearest vendor, wich could be sub par to the specific play style you want to use. Adapting will be needed an add a good overall feel.

There could be options I suppose also of making a few generic brands of AC that you could replace more easily but perhaps have them have major downsides such as +3 heat... or +2 additional cooldown...etc... to represent you are getting a sub par weapon until you make the trip to replace the specific gun you lost in a fight. Also makes people more cautious while engaging and wanting to protect there guns perhaps.

Of a last note this is a total rough draft idea that im mostly tossing out to get feed back back on and would like suggestions on other numbers to tweak (regardless of weight and size, since that would ruin alot of stock builds). Ammo capacity could perhaps be interesting as well, clip size ya know.

thoughts?

AC-20

ChemJet Gun 185mm - 1 round +2.5 second cooldown.
Manufactured by Aldis Industries on Terra and Betelegeuse
Manufactured by New Samarkand Metals on New Samarkand

Armstrong Requiem - 4 round burst .25 second burst -1 heat
Manufactured by United Outworlders Corporation on Ramora

Crusher SH cannon - 10 round burst .5 second burst. -1 second CD.
Manufactured by Quickscell Company on Kalidasa
Manufactured by Ceres Metals Industries on Indicass

Defiance Mech Hunter - 4 round burst over 1.2 seconds. .3 seconds in between each shell. -1.5 CD.
Manufactured by Defiance Industries on Hesperus II

Imerator Zeta-A - 10 round burst .4 second burst -.5 cd -2 heat.
Manufactured by Imperator Automatic Weaponary on Atreus

Kali Yama Big Bore - 1 round +2.5 second CD Double HP
Manufactured by Kali Yama Weapon Industries Incorporated on Kalidasa

Luxor Devastator-20 - 4 rounds, .5 second delay between rounds. -2 second cooldown. (ac2 fire rate)
Manufactured by Johnston Industries on New Sytris

Mydron A - 4 round burst .25 second burst -.5 CD
Manufactured by Bithinian Ballistics on Bithinia
Manufactured by yeffters weapons factory on gulkana

Pontiac 100 - 2 Round Burst .35 second burst -1 heat
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

Scarborough - 5 round .25 second burst -1 heat Double HP
Manufactured by Scarborough Manufacturers on Al na'ir
Manufactured by Scarborough Limited on Scarborough

To expand upon it, the Ac-10. Now this is my own idea here but the ac 10 is fairly unpopular, most people just opt for the ac20 or the ac5 in a pair. To make it more favorable The 'base' model and popular one that could be found on terra Im leaving the same, so the FLD one is unchanged compared to the FLD one of the ac20 wich gets the extended CD. That said the other burst fire options have bonuses wich could add to people wanting to play them still and one model has an extended CD but also other nice things to make it favorable. I attempted to keep the overall feel of the manufacturers since many overlap.

Keep in mind the burst rate, would not take away from the overall CD. Consider that when the burst starts the ticker for the cd is going as well.

AC-10

Ceres Arms Model T – 10 round burst over .40 seconds, -1 heat, -.5 CD, Double HP
Manufactured by Ceres Metals Industries on Menke

Defiance Killer Type T – 5 shot burst over 1 second .2 seconds per shell. -1 second CD
Manufactured by Defiance Industries on Hesperus II

Federated Autocannon – 1 shot +1 second Cooldown Double Hit points.
Manufactured by Federated Industries on Novaya Zemlya

Luxor D-Series - 4 rounds, .3 second delay between rounds. -1.3 second cd. (.3 second fire rate, 2.5 dmg)
Manufactured by Corean Enterprises on New Avalon

Mydron Model B - 4 shots, .25 second burst, -.5 second cooldown
Manufactured by Yefters Weapon Factory on Gulkana

Pontiac 50 – 2 Round Burst .35 Second Burst -1 heat
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

Sarlone Maxicannon – 1 shot, no change.
Manufactured by Aldis Industries on Betelgeuse and Terra
Manufactured by New Samarkand Metals on New Samarkand

Western Heavy – 10 round burst, .5 second burst, -1.5 heat, -1 cooldown.
Manufactured by Vandenberg Miltech on New Vandenberg

[Varent]

Varent, on 07 March 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

To expand upon it, the Ac-10. Now this is my own idea here but the ac 10 is fairly unpopular, most people just opt for the ac20 or the ac5 in a pair. To make it more favorable The 'base' model and popular one that could be found on terra Im leaving the same, so the FLD one is unchanged compared to the FLD one of the ac20 wich gets the extended CD. That said the other burst fire options have bonuses wich could add to people wanting to play them still and one model has an extended CD but also other nice things to make it favorable. I attempted to keep the overall feel of the manufacturers since many overlap.

Keep in mind the burst rate, would not take away from the overall CD. Consider that when the burst starts the ticker for the cd is going as well.

AC-10

Ceres Arms Model T – 10 round burst over .40 seconds, -1 heat, -.5 CD, Double HP
Manufactured by Ceres Metals Industries on Menke

Defiance Killer Type T – 5 shot burst over 1 second .2 seconds per shell. -1 second CD
Manufactured by Defiance Industries on Hesperus II

Federated Autocannon – 1 shot +1 second Cooldown Double Hit points.
Manufactured by Federated Industries on Novaya Zemlya

Luxor D-Series - 4 rounds, .3 second delay between rounds. -1.3 second cd. (.3 second fire rate, 2.5 dmg)
Manufactured by Corean Enterprises on New Avalon

Mydron Model B - 4 shots, .25 second burst, -.5 second cooldown
Manufactured by Yefters Weapon Factory on Gulkana

Pontiac 50 – 2 Round Burst .35 Second Burst -1 heat
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

Sarlone Maxicannon – 1 shot, no change.
Manufactured by Aldis Industries on Betelgeuse and Terra
Manufactured by New Samarkand Metals on New Samarkand

Western Heavy – 10 round burst, .5 second burst, -1.5 heat, -1 cooldown.
Manufactured by Vandenberg Miltech on New Vandenberg

And the AC-5.

The CD on the ac 5 may seem like abit more then needed on the colid slug, comparatively to the other AC, however at the same time it more confirms its roll and gives more value prioritized to its distance.

AC-5

Armstrong J11 – 1 round, +2 second Cooldown, +.5 Heat
Manufactured by Scarborough Manufacturers on Al Na’ir
Manufactured by Scarborough Limited on Scarborough
Manufactured by United Outworlders Corporation on Ramora

Defiance Type J – 5 Round Burst over .5 seconds, -.5 second cooldown.
Manufactured by Defiance Industries on Hesperus II

Deleon 5 – 1 round, +1.5 second CD, +1 heat, Double Hit points.
Manufactured by Quikscell Company on Kalidasa

GM Whirlwind – 4 round burst over .3 seconds, -.25 CD, Double HP
Manufactured by General Motors on Kathil
Manufactured by TharHes Industries on Arc-Royal

Mydron C – 5 shots, .25 second burst, -.3 sec CD
Manufactured by Bithinia Ballistics on Bithinia

Pontiac Light – 2 round burst, .35 second burst -.5 heat
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

[Mirkk Defwode]

stjobe, on 06 March 2014 - 11:35 PM, said:

The BT autocannon isn't really a scaled-up Bushmaster. It's something that has evolved from modern-day tank guns into Rifles and then into Autocannons. It's 1000-year-in-the-future space-robot guns. And it's used because the guns that themselves evolved by improving on modern-day tank guns couldn't do damage to "most battlefield units".

I really don't know what that means for the physics or mechanical characteristics of the autocannons (or their targets), but I also don't care. There's 1,000 years of mechanical, materials, and structural engineering to do until we get to the them.

It's like an archer at the battle of Hastings saying the concept of an Assault Rifle is ludicrous - the materials or physics just isn't available in 1066.

I think you're correct in that materials and some mechanics will have updated. But in the last 300 years of firearm history. The core mechanic hasn't changed all that much Charge within barrel propels Projectile to create ballistic characteristics of object inflight.

What I think we'll see change is what the charge is to push projectiles and what those projectiles are made out of even to the degree of smart projectiles. Beyond that I don't think we'll see a whole lot change in how those work.

But to side track this a little, we're not looking at the real technology we'll see in 1,000 years. We're seeing what designers and writers had access to in the 1980's and thought would be cool to see in the future on giant robots running around fighting like infantry of that era. Then you let the authors get to it in novellia and they do the same thing using existing technology with some flourish to make it all believable.

The technology for weaponry we see in the game is mostly possible today and was on the horizon when Battletech was first being worked on. So using todays weaponry is a valid model.

Another side note. We have rifled tank barrels today...thats along the same lines for that evolution of technology we just know what they do today.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think these autocannons are just scaled up versions of what we have today, but I think they'd behave very similar to how we have our weapons mechanically work today as it's how effencient they work at taking out their targets that'd never regress. You don't advance weapons technology by making it worse. So maybe even considering todays technology as a minimum bar.

[Varent]

Varent, on 07 March 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

And the AC-5.

The CD on the ac 5 may seem like abit more then needed on the colid slug, comparatively to the other AC, however at the same time it more confirms its roll and gives more value prioritized to its distance.

AC-5

Armstrong J11 – 1 round, +2 second Cooldown, +.5 Heat
Manufactured by Scarborough Manufacturers on Al Na’ir
Manufactured by Scarborough Limited on Scarborough
Manufactured by United Outworlders Corporation on Ramora

Defiance Type J – 5 Round Burst over .5 seconds, -.5 second cooldown.
Manufactured by Defiance Industries on Hesperus II

Deleon 5 – 1 round, +1.5 second CD, +1 heat, Double Hit points.
Manufactured by Quikscell Company on Kalidasa

GM Whirlwind – 4 round burst over .3 seconds, -.25 CD, Double HP
Manufactured by General Motors on Kathil
Manufactured by TharHes Industries on Arc-Royal

Mydron C – 5 shots, .25 second burst, -.3 sec CD
Manufactured by Bithinia Ballistics on Bithinia

Pontiac Light – 2 round burst, .35 second burst -.5 heat
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

And finally the AC-2. Kinda neat to note one interesting advantage thats actually put into BT lore is more manufacturerers for the larger AC, so you have more options the higher you are in weight.

Ac-2

Imperator Smoothie-2 - .5 damage per round, 4 round burst over .25 seconds , -.3 Heat.
Manufactured by Imperator Automatic Weaponary on Atreus

Mydron D - .25 Damage per round, 8 round burst over .5 Seconds, -.5 CD (Basically Fully Automatic)
Manufactured by Yeffters Weapons Factory on Gulkana

Zeusbolt – 1 round, full damage, +.5 CD
Manufactured by Canopus Industries Alpha on Dunianshire

Whirlwind-2 – .5 damage per round, 4 round burst over .2 seconds, Double Hit Points.
Manufactured by General Motors on Kathil

[FactorlanP]

If they created enough different variations of all of the weapons, they could then create bonuses if a player equips weapons all in the same series...

So, if I equip weapons that are all from the Ceres Metals "Dominator" line ( I made that up), I might get a small buff to heat, or recycle, or whatever.

To fluff it up, it's because the weapons synergistically are more efficient.

[Varent]

FactorlanP, on 07 March 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

If they created enough different variations of all of the weapons, they could then create bonuses if a player equips weapons all in the same series...

So, if I equip weapons that are all from the Ceres Metals "Dominator" line ( I made that up), I might get a small buff to heat, or recycle, or whatever.

To fluff it up, it's because the weapons synergistically are more efficient.

Very true, Im still doing research to see how much overlap there is. Not sure how much there is overally but that could prove another very interesting trait and make more of an intriguing feel towards working towards getting all those specific weapons. Keep in mind however ALL of this is based basically off of CW since you need worlds to travel to and markets to buy from etc...

[Varent]

Varent, on 07 March 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

And finally the AC-2. Kinda neat to note one interesting advantage thats actually put into BT lore is more manufacturerers for the larger AC, so you have more options the higher you are in weight.

Ac-2

Imperator Smoothie-2 - .5 damage per round, 4 round burst over .25 seconds , -.3 Heat.
Manufactured by Imperator Automatic Weaponary on Atreus

Mydron D - .25 Damage per round, 8 round burst over .5 Seconds, -.5 CD (Basically Fully Automatic)
Manufactured by Yeffters Weapons Factory on Gulkana

Zeusbolt – 1 round, full damage, +.5 CD
Manufactured by Canopus Industries Alpha on Dunianshire

Whirlwind-2 – .5 damage per round, 4 round burst over .2 seconds, Double Hit Points.
Manufactured by General Motors on Kathil

With the uac there is less options so basically just one normal with a slightly higher cd and one with burst and a few minor tweaks. Most people use it for brawling regardless so not to much is needed here. However to appease the crowds I thought throwing in a different Jam mechanic for one variant may be interesting that rewards properly managing Heat. Let the Jam rate start lower and then rise higher as the overall heat of the mech increases.

UAC – 5

Armstrong Spitfire JU22 – Normal UAC-5, +.5 Second CD
Manufactured by Majesty Metals and Manufacturing on Dunianshire
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

General Motors Nova-5 – 5 Round Burst, 1 damager per round, over .3 Seconds. -.25 heat. Double HP.
Manufactured by General Motors on Kathil
Manufactured by TharHes Industries on Arc-Royal

Imperator Ultra-5 – 5 Round Burst, 1 Dmg Per Rnd. Over .3 Sec. New Jam Mechanic, Lower Jam Rate, Increases to higher as the mech heat increases.
Manufactured by Imperator Automatic Weaponary on Atreus

[Varent]

Varent, on 07 March 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

With the uac there is less options so basically just one normal with a slightly higher cd and one with burst and a few minor tweaks. Most people use it for brawling regardless so not to much is needed here. However to appease the crowds I thought throwing in a different Jam mechanic for one variant may be interesting that rewards properly managing Heat. Let the Jam rate start lower and then rise higher as the overall heat of the mech increases.

UAC – 5

Armstrong Spitfire JU22 – Normal UAC-5, +.5 Second CD
Manufactured by Majesty Metals and Manufacturing on Dunianshire
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

General Motors Nova-5 – 5 Round Burst, 1 damager per round, over .3 Seconds. -.25 heat. Double HP.
Manufactured by General Motors on Kathil
Manufactured by TharHes Industries on Arc-Royal

Imperator Ultra-5 – 5 Round Burst, 1 Dmg Per Rnd. Over .3 Sec. New Jam Mechanic, Lower Jam Rate, Increases to higher as the mech heat increases.
Manufactured by Imperator Automatic Weaponary on Atreus

With the LBX there is alot of arguments its not balanced or it is. I find it balanced but for the sake of argument I took a middle road and mostly just added options that are fairly all over the board. Alot of peoples complaint seem to be WHEN the rounds start to spread so giving options on when they spread seems like a good idea. Also giving at least one option that could perhaps fire both rounds seems optimal. Also allowing one LBX as it is for people that like it just like that seems fair too.

LBX – 10

Armstrong Class-B Clustergun – Normal LBX, Double Hit Points, +.5 Cd, -1 Heat.
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

Defiance Disintegrator – 5 Round Burst over .25 seconds, Each Burst deals 2 damage in a tight ball that carries out to 500 Meters before it begins to spread. -1 Cooldown. +1 Heat.
Manufactured by Defiance Industries on Hesperus II

Imperator Code Red – Normal LBX, No changes.
Manufactured by Kallon Industries on Nanking
Manufactured by Imperator Automatic Weaponry on Atreus

Kali Yama Weapon Industries – Switch Mechanic, May fire ac10 or LBX rounds. You must have the ammo present for each. Switching takes 5 seconds while the ammo rotates into place. +1 CD, +1 Heat.
Manufactured by Kali Yama Weapon Industries Incorporated on Kalidasa
Manufactured by Kali Yama – Alphard Trading Corporation on Kendall

Luballin - Tighter Spread, Spread holds in a ball out to 500 meters. +1 Heat, +1 CD.
Manufactured by Weigal Armory and Munitions on Wotan

Mydron Excel – Spread holds in a ball out to 250 Meters. +1 Heat, +.5 CD.
Manufactured by Bithinian Ballistics on Bithinia
Manufactured by Yeffters Weapons Factory on Gulkana

[Cimarb]

Varent, on 07 March 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

its not a combined CD, cd would start the moment the first round starts leaving the barel.

I like what you are doing, but I still want to see important stats like damage per shell and heat per trigger pull. Format the listings like Smurfy (plus the manufacturer description) so we can hash out any issues early.

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 07 March 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

I like what you are doing, but I still want to see important stats like damage per shell and heat per trigger pull. Format the listings like Smurfy (plus the manufacturer description) so we can hash out any issues early.

*twitch*

[Varent]

Varent, on 07 March 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

With the LBX there is alot of arguments its not balanced or it is. I find it balanced but for the sake of argument I took a middle road and mostly just added options that are fairly all over the board. Alot of peoples complaint seem to be WHEN the rounds start to spread so giving options on when they spread seems like a good idea. Also giving at least one option that could perhaps fire both rounds seems optimal. Also allowing one LBX as it is for people that like it just like that seems fair too.

LBX – 10

Armstrong Class-B Clustergun – Normal LBX, Double Hit Points, +.5 Cd, -1 Heat.
Manufactured by Sterope Defense Industries on Sterope

Defiance Disintegrator – 5 Round Burst over .25 seconds, Each Burst deals 2 damage in a tight ball that carries out to 500 Meters before it begins to spread. -1 Cooldown. +1 Heat.
Manufactured by Defiance Industries on Hesperus II

Imperator Code Red – Normal LBX, No changes.
Manufactured by Kallon Industries on Nanking
Manufactured by Imperator Automatic Weaponry on Atreus

Kali Yama Weapon Industries – Switch Mechanic, May fire ac10 or LBX rounds. You must have the ammo present for each. Switching takes 5 seconds while the ammo rotates into place. +1 CD, +1 Heat.
Manufactured by Kali Yama Weapon Industries Incorporated on Kalidasa
Manufactured by Kali Yama – Alphard Trading Corporation on Kendall

Luballin - Tighter Spread, Spread holds in a ball out to 500 meters. +1 Heat, +1 CD.
Manufactured by Weigal Armory and Munitions on Wotan

Mydron Excel – Spread holds in a ball out to 250 Meters. +1 Heat, +.5 CD.
Manufactured by Bithinian Ballistics on Bithinia
Manufactured by Yeffters Weapons Factory on Gulkana

Moving on to the Gause Rifle. I dont see why they dont just add heat and CD as an option really. As well as make it a true risk reward with the explosion by making it more dangerous.

Gause Rifle

Grizzard - +2 Heat, +4 Cooldown. No charge time.
Manufactured by Yankee Weapon Systems on New Earth

Imerator Dragon’s Fire - +1 Heat, +2 Cooldown, Stays charged for 1 second longer.
Manufactured by Imperator Automatic Weaponary on Atreus

Inokuma - +2 Heat, +1 Cooldown, Stays Charged for .75 Seconds Longer.
Manufactured by Aldis Industries on Betelgeuse

Kali Yama Grand Slam - +1 Heat, +1 Cooldown, Stays Charged for .5 Seconds Longer.
Manufactured by Kali Yama Weapons Industries on Kendall

Oriente MagCoil Model M – Stays Charged for .75 Seconds longer. Explodes for 75 Damage when destroyed.
Manufactured by Starcorps Industries on Emris IV

Norse-Storm M-7D - +5 Heat, Stays charged for .5 seconds longer.
Manufactured by Norse-Storm Technologies Incorporated on Loxley

Poland Main – Normal Gause Rifle, No changes.
Manufactured by Johnston Industries on New Sytris
Manufactured by Defiance Industries on Hesperus II

Zeus Slingshot – Takes an additional .5 seconds to charge. Stays charged for 1 second longer.
Manufactured by Corean Enterprises on Stewart

Zhi-tong-yao – Stays charged for .5 seconds longer, Explodes for 60 Damage when destroyed.
Manufactured by Shengli Arms on Victoria

[Tombstoner]

Varent, on 07 March 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

Very true, Im still doing research to see how much overlap there is. Not sure how much there is overally but that could prove another very interesting trait and make more of an intriguing feel towards working towards getting all those specific weapons. Keep in mind however ALL of this is based basically off of CW since you need worlds to travel to and markets to buy from etc...

It would also make salvage very popular since that would be the only way to get faction specific weapons for non faction.
I like the over all ideas you present. it gives options for everyone. that cant be bad except tot the work involved to implement.

One aspect to consider for burst fire vs. continuous fire. burst being x rounds per pull of the trigger. each round delivering y damage and z heat vs. continuous fire where the weapon fires only as long as the trigger is pulled. the primary difference emerges in terms of efficacy of damage dealt, heat generated and ammo used.... its the all or nothing damage for heat and ammo used vs. the efficient controllable fire rate. this is achieved simply by having a high rate of fire but scaling damage and ammo according.

My concern with continuous fire is the inherent efficiency over the front loaded versions. Think very accurate MG's that do way more damage but have exceptional control over ammo and heat.

[Cimarb]

Tombstoner, on 07 March 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

My concern with continuous fire is the inherent efficiency over the front loaded versions. Think very accurate MG's that do way more damage but have exceptional control over ammo and heat.

That is what AC2s are supposed to be, actually. They do the exact same damage as a MG, but to extremely long ranges in exchange for much more weight and ammo expenditure.

[Varent]

Tombstoner, on 07 March 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

It would also make salvage very popular since that would be the only way to get faction specific weapons for non faction.
I like the over all ideas you present. it gives options for everyone. that cant be bad except tot the work involved to implement.

One aspect to consider for burst fire vs. continuous fire. burst being x rounds per pull of the trigger. each round delivering y damage and z heat vs. continuous fire where the weapon fires only as long as the trigger is pulled. the primary difference emerges in terms of efficacy of damage dealt, heat generated and ammo used.... its the all or nothing damage for heat and ammo used vs. the efficient controllable fire rate. this is achieved simply by having a high rate of fire but scaling damage and ammo according.

My concern with continuous fire is the inherent efficiency over the front loaded versions. Think very accurate MG's that do way more damage but have exceptional control over ammo and heat.

Going to play with the numbers still this is basically a 'rough draft' so far with comments concerns and ideas encouraged so I can make a nicely well polished final draft. Ive actually made variants of each where some essentially now fire non stop while the trigger is held down and others are burst or single slug, with the damage being distributed over a series of rounds. Most of these are balanced with the factors of spread damage, heat, Cd and other factors worked in. That said on the topic of machine gun style firing...

Brand Planet Company [color="#ba0000"]Armstrong MiniGun[/color] Ramora United Outworlders Corporation [color="#ba0000"]Blackwell B75[/color] Outreach Blackwell Heavy Industries Borman-ASC Heavy Machinegun^[6] Unknown Unknown [color="#ba0000"]Bulldog Minigun[/color] Ingersoll Bulldog Enterprises [color="#ba0000"]Bulldog Minigun[/color] Proserpina Bulldog Enterprises [color="#ba0000"]Double-Gun[/color] New Avalon Achernar BattleMechs [color="#ba0000"]Coventry Light Autogun[/color] Coventry Coventry Metal Works [color="#ba0000"]Gatling Gun 20mm[/color] Ares Quikscell Company [color="#ba0000"]Gatling Gun 20mm[/color] Layover Quikscell Company [color="#ba0000"]Gatling Gun 20mm[/color] Kalidasa Quikscell Company [color="#ba0000"]Gatling Gun 20mm[/color] Gallery Quikscell Company [color="#ba0000"]GM MiniGun[/color] Salem General Motors Grizzly-3 Minigun^[6] Unknown Unknown [color="#ba0000"]Johnston MiniGun[/color] New Syrtis Johnston Industries Kicker Skye Cyclops Incorporated [color="#ba0000"]LFN Linblad[/color] Grand Base Earthwerks Incorporated [color="#ba0000"]LFN Linblad[/color] Tematagi Nimakachi Fusion Products Limited [color="#ba0000"]LFN Linblad[/color] Wallis Ronin Incorporated [color="#ba0000"]LFN Linblad[/color] Illiushin Vandenberg Mechanized Industries [color="#ba0000"]MainFire MiniGun[/color] Belladonna Cal-Boeing of Dorwinion [color="#ba0000"]Maxi Mini[/color] Menke Ceres Metals Industries [color="#ba0000"]Mydron Mini-Gun[/color] Bithinia Bithinian Ballistics [color="#ba0000"]ScatterGun Light[/color] New Earth New Earth Trading Company [color="#ba0000"]SperryBrowning[/color] Hun Ho LexaTech Industries [color="#ba0000"]SperryBrowning[/color] Canopus IV Majesty Metals and Manufacturing [color="#ba0000"]SperryBrowning[/color] Indicass Ceres Metals Industries [color="#ba0000"]SperryBrowning[/color] MacLeod's Land Pinard Protectorates Limited [color="#ba0000"]SureFire MiniGun[/color] Coventry Coventry Metal Works [color="#ba0000"]SureFire MiniGun[/color] Pandora Red Devil Industries [color="#ba0000"]Voelkers 200[/color] Stewart Corean Enterprises [color="#ba0000"]Voelkers 200[/color] Pinard Vandenberg Mechanized Industries

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_gun

Why on gods green earth are there so many makers for machine guns... I was hoping it would be fewer. I could use some ideas on them.

thoughts?

Edited by Varent, 07 March 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[stjobe]

Tombstoner, on 07 March 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

One aspect to consider for burst fire vs. continuous fire. burst being x rounds per pull of the trigger. each round delivering y damage and z heat vs. continuous fire where the weapon fires only as long as the trigger is pulled. the primary difference emerges in terms of efficacy of damage dealt, heat generated and ammo used.... its the all or nothing damage for heat and ammo used vs. the efficient controllable fire rate. this is achieved simply by having a high rate of fire but scaling damage and ammo according.

My concern with continuous fire is the inherent efficiency over the front loaded versions. Think very accurate MG's that do way more damage but have exceptional control over ammo and heat.

Let's for argument's sake consider a hypothetical 3 DPS weapon that comes in three versions:

Single-shot
Does 9 damage in a single shot every 3 seconds.

Burst-fire
Does 9 damage in a burst of three 3-damage shots over 0.6 seconds, with 2.4 seconds cooldown.

Continuous-fire
Does 9 damage in 9 1-damage shots every 0.33 seconds, as long as you hold down the trigger.

Are these variants balanced? Are they even the same weapon, with just "manufacturer quirks"?

In MWO we have the first and the last, and as an avid MG user let me tell you that continuous-fire really, really sucks compared to single-shot. It leaves you no room to maneuver without losing DPS and it's so much harder to hold on to a target location than to pull the trigger once when your reticule is in the right place it's not even funny.

That's what I don't like about single-shot ACs; they're easier to use offensively, they are better defensively, and they damage the target better than the other variants do (all damage guaranteed to go to one location, which is optimal from a killing perspective).

That's a lot of benefits that needs drawbacks if the three variants are to come out as equal, and I've yet to see anyone come up with those drawbacks (props to Varent and Cimarb for trying though, it'll be interesting to see how you make it work).