194 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 24 February 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Right now it just doesn't.

Unadulterated hyperbole.

Yes, lights can and do work angles to defeat the flight envelopes of LRMs and yes, ECMs effect is too broad / encompassing...

That said, while "yes" lights are not being blown into smoldering pieces they do in fact "take damage". Whether the take enough is debatable...

[CygnusX7]

Hilarious when an idiot is yelling for everyone to push when your team is already down 2 plus a disco.

Honestly, I'm not going to march my Atlas into the fray only to have its weapons and face melted off.
Things tend to go well when myself and my team shows some patience.

Let the LRM boats waste their ammo and lights and mediums trickle into your teams path.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

DaZur, on 24 February 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

Unadulterated hyperbole.

Yes, lights can and do work angles to defeat the flight envelopes of LRMs and yes, ECMs effect is too broad / encompassing...

That said, while "yes" lights are not being blown into smoldering pieces they do in fact "take damage". Whether the take enough is debatable...

AMS + Terrain + Jump Jets + 150kph means a smart light pilot does not take LRM damage.

Even without AMS they are pretty hard to hit.

I'm totally avoiding LRM damage without speed tweak on my Firestarter.

Ask Wispsy.

I have directly asked multiple times.

He does not take LRM damage unless he completely messes up.

[Mazzyplz]

when HSR was in they took the dmg that was dealt to them, it was rolled back. why, we never got an explanation

why are you guys opposed to giving weapons back their HSR? it's just what's fair, no lagshielding.is because you're having a blast in your newly bought firestarter?

is this why you're white knighting? do you think the HSR gives more dmg? that's ridiculous, it's only netcode so weaps actually LAND their intended DMG

why are you opposed to making a module that affects all mechs, or another module that affects lighter mechs, where the current arty and airstrike is clearly more detrimental to slower bigger mechs


this directly connects to the issue of LRM, since light mechs are the ones who are aiming all the LRM, and cannot be shot well because the hitboxes dont work like they did half a year ago when there was HSR which pgi took out, they have weaps of their own, JJ, sometimes ECM.... they rain artillery on you as well as lrm

just balance the light mech class and it will be beneficial across the board, give us hsr and balance artillery

Edited by Mazzyplz, 24 February 2014 - 08:54 AM.

[Fut]

Para B, on 23 February 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

It seems a lot of people are having problems adapting to strong LRM presence and continue to play as usual. With non-surprising results.

This is seriously the best description of the problem I've seen.
People just need to realize that LRMs can be a real threat - take a look at your positioning whenever you get melted by LRMs; Are you off on your own, or near a group? Are you near cover, or in a field? Do you equip AMS, or are you near an ally with AMS? Do you equip ECM, are you near an ally with ECM?

People need to learn from their mistakes.
There's a reason why the majority of players aren't complaining about the volume of LRMs being used - most of us have adapted to their use, and we know how to counter their use.

LRMs still get me for decent damage every now and again, but I honestly can't recall the last time I was destroyed by them.
To me, LRMs are in a fairly good place now-a-days.

[Rokuzachi]

Enzlaved, on 23 February 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

First of all i'm playing this game about 5 to 6 weeks and if the following doesn't happen, im doing pretty good for my thoughts.

1. Cowards..... there are lots of ppl in Assault Mechs who just hides behind the others and don't wanna make a step forward before others in lighter mechs dont do it.

When the heaviest mechs in a match, whose main defense is their quantity of armor, get stripped in the blink of an eye, it's hard to want to be up front taking hits. Hell, even just poking up over the hill in something like a Battlemaster to use your high-mounted torso guns can be suicide because there's a bunch of poptarts running around that snapshot you in the face with their flawless accuracy.

The game favors high alpha with minimal exposure time, I don't blame people (in any weight class) for not wanting to be the first one out there when they can't kick it into reverse before 75% of their CT is gone.

[DaZur]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 24 February 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

AMS + Terrain + Jump Jets + 150kph means a smart light pilot does not take LRM damage.

Even without AMS they are pretty hard to hit.

I'm totally avoiding LRM damage without speed tweak on my Firestarter.

Ask Wispsy.

I have directly asked multiple times.

He does not take LRM damage unless he completely messes up.

[Citation needed]...

I will capitulate as I cannot refute yours or Wispy's personal experiences. That said, I myself have never see a light take "zero" damage to LRMs, particularly en'mass... At the very least they appear to take superficial leg damage.

Again, is it enough? Hard to say. That said, anything that would level damage against lights within the context that we are discussing lights would prove to be fundamentally devastating against all the other classes IMHO.

Pros / cons..

Edited by DaZur, 24 February 2014 - 08:58 AM.

[wanderer]

I've fired at lights and gotten zero damage. Ideally, if they're running away and at an angle, especially downhill and without Artemis.

With it, it's tough for a scout to avoid splash hits from a salvo. With TAG, they're not dodging getting some missile smack.

[Mazzyplz]

so you changed tactics from putting words in my mouth and liking each others posts to ignoring me, that's rich.

HSR NOW



also, there is a video on youtube of a spider who jumps with JJ right through a bunch of LRM salvos w/o artemis.
just literally jumps through the salvo through the hole in the middle, the video is shot from the light pilot's cockpit. it's a youtube vid, if i find it i'll post

Edited by Mazzyplz, 24 February 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[AkilaX]

Abivard, on 23 February 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

LRM's owns pugs
Premade owns LRM teams

Pop tart premades owns PUG brawlers
Premade Brawlers owns PUG poptarts

Premade air/arty owns PUG premade arty

Premade long range snipers owns PUG Long range snipers

Intelligence owns stupidity
Skill owns ineptitude

Can you not see the pattern yet?

So...beautiful...brings a tear to my eye.

[nimdabew]

Redshift2k5, on 23 February 2014 - 04:02 AM, said:

LRMs are a major part of the weapon system, look how many stock designs carry LRMs. Proper tactics are needed to defend against LRMs, which includes taking proper cover, killing spotters, and sending lights to harass the enemy missile platforms. It's not complicated.

Tactics don't matter that much if you have a premade 4 man that has two medium/heavy defenders and 2 of these. This is the type of metal rain that the OP is referring to. There is little chance you will expend ALL of that ammunition of the entire team is dedicated to defending 2+ of these mechs from getting close enough to TAG or flank.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...979bd6755b5b407

[nimdabew]

ETA: I won't say it is a super effective strategy, but it is annoying as all hell. If the entire team can somehow bum rush the LOLrm lance, then it would be a good way to stop them, but the problem is that by the time the end of the match, there is little to no armor left on the surviving 3-4 mechs and the LRMs and body guards eat them for lunch. I play in premades and LRM lances are hard to counter.

[Charons Little Helper]

Mazzyplz, on 24 February 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

also, there is a video on youtube of a spider who jumps with JJ right through a bunch of LRM salvos w/o artemis.
just literally jumps through the salvo through the hole in the middle, the video is shot from the light pilot's cockpit. it's a youtube vid, if i find it i'll post

Yes - as was stated earlier - non-artemis w/o tag do little to no damage to lights who are moving well.

With artemis & tag the lights will nearly always take some damage unless they get behind cover.

(I've never seen them avoid all damage from a decent sized volley with artemis & tag without getting behind cover. They don't take full damage - so I don't bother shooting LRMs at them if I have a bigger target, but they'll take a bit.)

[Prezimonto]

wanderer, on 24 February 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I've fired at lights and gotten zero damage. Ideally, if they're running away and at an angle, especially downhill and without Artemis.

With it, it's tough for a scout to avoid splash hits from a salvo. With TAG, they're not dodging getting some missile smack.

You need a tag/narc lock to reliably land missiles on fast moving light mechs. Artemis will help land even more onto them, but even at best they're usually still taking less than 50% of the fired missiles, and if they have ams, it's can be crap shoot.

Generally, I don't use LRM's against light mechs, even ones in the open with a TAG lock, unless the heavier mechs are already taken care of, or unless they're the only target and headed right at me. It's usually a waste of missiles even still.

[Sandpit]

Mordin Ashe, on 24 February 2014 - 01:57 AM, said:

This. +1 well deserved.
Not because it is optimal, but because it is like this in every similar MMO game. I've played for two years on very competitive level in WOT and when I played solo I had no other choice but to adapt to the general strategy the zerg around me chooses if I wanted to achieve anything.

and this is where I think players who are willing to be flexible in their designs, tactics, etc. will do much better than those that take the stance of "I want to play my way or nothing at all!" The people who do well as a solo (at least from what I've seen and experienced) understand that when dropping with random teammates you have to be flexible in order to achieve victory.

If you hate heading to theta on terra because you think it's a bad strategy but 10 of your teammates head in there anyhow you can either be stubborn and keep plodding along doing your own thing or you can head over and help support them.

[oldradagast]

Eh... LRM's are often more for effect than actual damage. I'm not saying they can't hurt, but a lot of the missiles in those huge, scary clouds end up hitting terrain vs. mechs. Also, as long as we have an LRM trial mech, usage of LRM's will be higher than normal.

[Losobal]

PUGS also work they way they do because there's no knowledge of what mechs your teammates will be rolling until you 'drop'. So you look at your side-roster, oh, huh, NOBODY has ECM, this'll be interesting. Or I've got TAG, but...only 2 guys have missiles. Or...well..any other number of combinations.

[Lightfoot]

@op

Don't leave the Assaults on your team, guard them, assist them. Once they are engaged then you can move in on targets.

LRMs, gee, I dunno, I play the same game as you and I get destroyed by LRMs about once every two to four weeks. You just don't let it happen. If spotters come in you use your anti-Light mech weapons and chase them off. That's why boats of anything are weak, they never bring anti-Light mech weapons, just the elephant guns.

Just sayin, there are things you can do yourself about all the problems you outlined. Learn that because MWO is pretty well balanced right now. You can carve out a nice niche for whatever you like to do with the right tactics. Think on what those might be.

[Capfailboat]

Cowards: YOu will always have herpa-derps in PUG drops. Yeah it sucks, but they might be n00bs or might just be failing and lone-wolfing it. In the case of the former, remember you were a n00b once too. Talk it out over chat calmly or group up with him after the game. You might find a diamond in the rough lancemate that way. For the Latter, well there will always be idiots everywhere you go.

LRMS: COVER IS OP! Learn to duck behind it and win. If you rush a LRM boat head on, be prepared to get scrapped. Jump out into the open and prepare to get scrapped. I run an ALRM50 stalker and destroy people that make those mistakes. Add in a coordinated lance and you have 1k damage matches with multiple kills. THere is a huge trade off though. I have an XL engine. Pop my sides and watch me go. THe champion stalker isn't that great though, it has a really horrible heat rating and ghost heat problems. You should trounce n00bs that play them. Pop the sides and they are scrap. Honestly I fail to see the problem except you need to play a bit smarter.

[PropagandaWar]

Enzlaved, on 23 February 2014 - 03:40 AM, said:

Hi,

thanks for answer.

after one week playing i already knew the maps and know what to do or wich coordinates the players are prefering to attack/defend, thx for that.

After one week huh? Ok your new. This game isn't gonna be easy for you. if you want easy there are plenty of other games for that. First Don't run out in the open. Its easy to spot Lerms and you usually can the first few minutes of the game. This tends to give you a great opportunity to learn how to flank and kill or distract the ********. However if your in a slow nub mech well. You might as well stay with all the other Neanderthals and hope they don't get taken out one at a time because they are to timid to advance. Lights are the same way. unless they swarm properly they get blasted. Me however. I'm a medium pilot have been for close to 2 years 95% of my mechs use cover as AMS. But they also go 85+. Even my heavies don't require AMS. If your constantly getting blasted its because your new. You need to get used to situational awareness. Watch your map. You may think you know these maps, but I can tell you if you have only been playing a week you are completely new to this game. You should also get on TS and talk to people because I bet you are running sub par builds with junk armor and the like. Also meta is generally week. Especially in pug games so use mechs that handle and fire well.