65 replies to this topic

[Petard]

For a Hero assault mech, I would respectfully suggest the Heavy Metal as the most newbie friendly, Highlanders can be some of the toughest opponents in the game, and have several other good variants, (HGN-733C, oh yeah), whereas Atlases take considerable experience to do well in.

The jump jets and heavy armor of the Heavy Metal make it very survivable, combine that with the variety of good loadouts that are possible, plus a cool guitar riff every time you get a kill, and all these factors make it hard to go past in my opinion....The only downside is no room for an AC20, (I LIKE AC20's....a LOT), but oh well, you can't have everything.

I also have the Dragon Slayer and Boars Head, and take it from me, both require far more skill, experience, and knowledge of what the chassis can (and CAN'T) do to be effective in. Don't get me wrong by any means, both mechs can be very deadly in the hands of an expert, myself, I didn't find them to be as easy to come to grips with as the HM.

Just a last thought, and seeing as how you already have a JM6-DD, and will need 3 variants of that chassis to unlock elite skills for them, which improve the performance of the mech by a fair margin, (double basics, quick ignition and speedtweak, yeehah), I can also recommend the Firebrand, a good sniper, and probably my favourite Hero mech, also with many good loadouts possible for the chassis.

Anyhow, that's just my 2 cents worth, good luck with whatever you decide to buy, see you on the field...

Edit: Ninjaed by Sewman, who I completely agree with on the CTF-3D, and who makes some other very good points...

Edited by Petard, 12 March 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[Ion Punch]

Thank you all for the (literally) tons of tips.

I have, in the meantime, purchased an Ilya Muromets. I run a triple UAC 5 setup.

Itsalrightwithme, on 11 March 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

By the way, you're asking for build recommendations for two very different roles. You may discover you a genius at this game and master both very quickly. Or you may discover it takes quite a lot of effort and time (and the accompanying grief) to master either, and get frustrated.

In the long term it is good to diversify and learn different roles, since even if you end up hating it you'll learn how to better kill such mechs.

Also, you haven't said whether you play MW4 single-player only or multi-player. In MWO you shoot at other players, and other players shoot at you. So there is conscious effort to "balance" between a handful of roles and builds. Meaning, if you are expecting to be able to mount 2 x LB20 and go on a romp, you'll be sorely disappointed.

People may complain that the balance of the game is poor, but everybody agrees that there has to be a balance, at least between various roles.

By the way, Adiuvo's builds are great, the 3D is a great mech for the current state of the game. I am even thinking of buying a second one since I can't afford a mechanic to change my builds back-and-forth like he does.

I have played MW4 online extensively, yes. I was in a clan and all.

However, MW4 is very much different from MWO.

The maps are bigger, the teams are WAY bigger. In MW4 it was mostly squad vs squad, sometimes a few more players. Here, the group size reduces the importance of a single mech.

In MW4 I had one job - not receive any damage and wait out till the enemy came close enough for me to start dancing around them and see who was the better brawler - me with my shotguns vs usually the 100 ton daishi. I knew precisely what my role was and I mastered the LBX mechanics to the point where I could hit all three where I wanted, every time.

In MWO, however, I feel like I have to do a little bit of everything - at start, take a good position to get some "free" damage on mechs that pass by typical waypoints on the map. Then, depending on my team, either assist a rush or play a smart offensive line which lets me dish out damage without taking too much in return to get critted in the XL engine.

On the Ilya, it nets me 300 dmg on a bad match, and I have had 1k on good matches. So average is around 450 damage per round. Is this good?

I also have to look into this whole "arm lock/unlock" mechanic. I have read a thread about it and it feels like the mech behaves much, much faster in rotation with the arm unlock mechanic. Is this intended? If this works the way it seems to work (i.e., super fast torso turns), then brawling without it is an excercise in stupidity.

Edited by Aahzmandeus, 14 March 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[Charons Little Helper]

Aahzmandeus, on 14 March 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

I also have to look into this whole "arm lock/unlock" mechanic. I have read a thread about it and it feels like the mech behaves much, much faster in rotation with the arm unlock mechanic. Is this intended? If this works the way it seems to work (i.e., super fast torso turns), then brawling without it is an excercise in stupidity.

Your torso doesn't actually move faster with your arms unlocked - but your screen does. It follows your arm weapon target.

300 damage isn't a horrible match - and 1k is crazy good. (I only hit 1k occasionally - 1.15k is my top ever) Though much depends on how much you spread your damage.

One thing to remember as you add more mechs to your garage - weight limits are coming where each side will be limited to 3 of each mech class. So you might consider making sure that you have at least 2 different classes. (the general consesus seems to be that mediums will have 0 wait time, while assaults & heavies will have to wait longer for their matches to start)

[Dunning Kruger Effect]

I got bored of the "chainsaw" UAC build. I prefer the Cataphract 4X with quad AC5s for that sort of dakka anyway.

If you have an Ilya, may I suggest a 2xGauss, 1xERPPC build? (I use a XL235); makes a pretty decent sniper. Adv Zoom module is useful.

I plan to use triple LBX or AC10 when I tire of splattering lights at 500+m.

[Ion Punch]

Charons Little Helper, on 14 March 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

Your torso doesn't actually move faster with your arms unlocked - but your screen does. It follows your arm weapon target.

300 damage isn't a horrible match - and 1k is crazy good. (I only hit 1k occasionally - 1.15k is my top ever) Though much depends on how much you spread your damage.

One thing to remember as you add more mechs to your garage - weight limits are coming where each side will be limited to 3 of each mech class. So you might consider making sure that you have at least 2 different classes. (the general consesus seems to be that mediums will have 0 wait time, while assaults & heavies will have to wait longer for their matches to start)

Thank you for this input. I find the wait time at the moment to be acceptable - matchmaker usually slots me in within 20-30 seconds, at the most. Now, the fact that my ping is close to 220 is quite bad. In other games it is at the 70 mark. I assume there are no EU servers yet.

Dunning Kruger Effect, on 15 March 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

I got bored of the "chainsaw" UAC build. I prefer the Cataphract 4X with quad AC5s for that sort of dakka anyway.

If you have an Ilya, may I suggest a 2xGauss, 1xERPPC build? (I use a XL235); makes a pretty decent sniper. Adv Zoom module is useful.

I plan to use triple LBX or AC10 when I tire of splattering lights at 500+m.

Precisely, I find the build effective, but I will get bored, eventually. I might make one or two "lets play" videos of this build to give the community something back and place a reference point for anybody looking for info and then I am definetely moving on with a few other builds on the muromets. It is a very versatile platform and there are quite a few options to explore.

[Fuggles]

Glad to see you went with the murimets, cataphracts will literally fill every role you were looking to go with. The 3d is a must grab then either the 4x for crazy ballistics or 1x for lots of energy weapons make fine choices.

[Koniving]

Well.. Since Fast Fire apparently does work again, I've pulled this mech back out and I'm trying to find a firing rate that doesn't trigger ghost heat.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 16 March 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Well.. Since Fast Fire apparently does work again

Any idea when they slipped that back in?

[Koniving]

Shar Wolf, on 16 March 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Any idea when they slipped that back in?

I've been noticing some higher than normal heat with my heavy metal and the LB-10x firing somewhat faster. No idea when. But after arguing with Bront about it I finally went and tested it, sure enough it is back in. Also works on the testing ground.

So I've whipped out my macros and begun raining death upon poor souls that don't have ballistics. I've got it going faster than non-fast-fire speed, but slow enough to not get ghost heat and allow for my mech to cool almost as fast as I heat up. Once I start hammering into someone they can't seem to hit me accurately.

[luxebo]

Is pinpoint/convergence skill useful now or still bad? Good news that a third elite skill has usefulness now.

[Alaskan Nobody]

I had thought some of my builds might be running hotter.....
(and BH started running cooler around the same time.... )

[Koniving]

luxebo, on 16 March 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

Is pinpoint/convergence skill useful now or still bad? Good news that a third elite skill has usefulness now.

Convergence is instant. So what's x% more convergence speed going to do to instant?

[luxebo]

Koniving, on 16 March 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

Convergence is instant. So what's x% more convergence speed going to do to instant?

Ah, understood now. Dunno if I really want convergence back, as I'll have quite a tough time learning how to play with it. That would've been really helpful before though.

[Koniving]

luxebo, on 16 March 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

Ah, understood now. Dunno if I really want convergence back, as I'll have quite a tough time learning how to play with it. That would've been really helpful before though.

If it was "taught" that would be a different story.

Also this game has another element of physics missing. Bullets don't have the momentum of the mech firing them. So if I'm running 90 kph sideways and fire the shot it should move forward from the barrel + 90 kph sideways. Doesn't happen though.

Personally I'd like manually set convergence with increments of 25 meters.

[Mazzyplz]

actually the better players suggest ERPPC because they know how to heat manage.
it doesn't only do regular dmg below 90, it also does more dmg than ppc from 500 on up, all the way to 1200 which is a distance normal ppc doesn't even reach, which is good if you want to be able to hit targets that probably won't be able to respond

oh, the good triple lbx10 mech is the phract afaik?

Edited by Mazzyplz, 17 March 2014 - 12:29 AM.

[Ion Punch]

Koniving, on 16 March 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Well.. Since Fast Fire apparently does work again, I've pulled this mech back out and I'm trying to find a firing rate that doesn't trigger ghost heat.

Hey, nice video! Do you mind explaining what do you mean by fast fire and ghost heat?

[AlmightyAeng]

Fast fire is one of the elite mech perks. Your weapons fire marginally faster.

Ghost heat (the colloquial version of heat scale) is a system that engenders extra heat penalties for certain weapons, when a certain number of those weapons are used within a certain number of seconds of each other. You can see 'The Math' here.

Because AC2's fire rate is so fast when you have fast fire, they can trigger ghost heat even when you chain them, if you aren't careful. Koniving, in that video, is attempting to use them WITHOUT triggering these extra heat penalties.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 18 March 2014 - 10:15 AM.

[Koniving]

Aahzmandeus, on 18 March 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Hey, nice video! Do you mind explaining what do you mean by fast fire and ghost heat?

Ghost Badger here was nice enough to explain it here.
Heat penalties ("Heat Scale" also dubbed as Ghost Heat as it is completely inexplicable and illogical excess heat used to punish weapons for firing too many within 0.5 seconds of each other.)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale

A normal firing rate of an AC/2 is 0.52 seconds apart.
Fast fire makes it shoot 0.49 seconds apart. It's difficult, but it does eventually cause a punishment as over time, it does pile up.
When you fire two at once, the second firing will count as having fired 4 within a 0.5 second time frame. Then 6. on the third firing, 8 on the fourth. It escalates and punishes you over and over unless you pause between shots.
This occurs because the 0.5 time window doesn't end or the timer simply restarts with the previous shots tallying up instead of clearing out.

(Also, the video was before that ghost heat. As is this.)


(Also before ghost heat)


This video shows when ghost heat first showed up. Mind you at first the existence of it for AC/2s wasn't on the list and was repeatedly denied. Then later declared as intentional (to stop grief-worthy macro use with heavy screen rattling caused by being hit by the AC/2s) but "wasn't working properly." When working properly the punishment is quite severe. (The next stage of ninja penalty before the official announcement on it. Became even worse after the announcement, but the firing rate of AC/2s went slower and then fast fire was made non-functional as a result.)

[Ion Punch]

Thank you, now I have this down with the heat. Very interesting.

Meanwhile, I am fiddling around with recording videos.

Here is the first one.Usual damage, and some brawling. I would appreciate comments in regard to quality and, obviously, gameplay mistakes I made.

I will, at some point, I will start commenting them, too.

On this ocassion, thank you again to all contributors of the topic. You got me this far

Linky: http://youtu.be/Pu8-lxkdcUA

Edited by Aahzmandeus, 20 March 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[Errinovar]

Good match! Only mistake I can really call you on is being slow using the targeting system; always pull your current target up so you know where to focus your fire. Anything else would be tactical dissagreements, like I wouldn't have turned my back on that shadowhawk to chase the wolverine (during which time you had the shadow hawk targeted but you were firing on the wolverine missing some good information about how badly that wolverine was hurt). If you use that targeting system more often you can tighten up your firing and put mechs down much more efficiently.

On the flip side I have to totally compliment you on your fire control at the end there, so many players would have shot into that mix at the end and nailed their teammates. In fact I was wondering if much of the damage that took your arm was friendly fire or if it was all that light mech with the machine guns.

Overall well played, good match!