30 replies to this topic

[Malcolm Vordermark]

wintersborn, on 26 February 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Hmm, ok let me see if I got this right.

Take this build for example STK-3F just focusing on only the right torso taking damage with(no armor).

Now there are 12 crit. slots with 12, 10HP SHS's filling up that torso.

So say a PPC doing 10 points of damage to that un armored torso, then the "Torso's Structure" has hit points and that is what the PPC damages. Then there is a chance (crit. roll) to do a % of damage to components in that location like SHS's in this case?

So you can destroy a "Structure" like a unarmored side torso and then any extra (non crit.)damage to it bleeds into the CT or its components(engine)? All without having to go through that side torso's components, in this case the 12 SHS's?

I don't think I fully understand how damage is done.

The way I understand it the damage is done to the component (right torso) which has health equal to half its max armor value. When the internal structure takes damage there is a chance that damage will crit. I do not know if this is done by hit or per point of damage. Anyways, if it crits it will select a random crit slot in that component to deal damage to. It ignores some things like empty crits. I think it may also ignore ferro, endo, and engine crits but I'm not positive on that. Destroyed equipment also gets ingored. When the component is destroyed all of the equipment in it is also destroyed.

If someone then shoots you in the destroyed right torso it transfers damage to the center damage that is transferred from one section to another is reduced. I think by half. But the equipment in that destroyed component no longer pad.

[wintersborn]

So if damage to the IS has a chance to "add" critical damage to components but still doing damage to the IS then it seems crit. padding is not that big of a issue.

If the crit. chance directs all of the damage at a reduced rate to just the components and bypasses the IS then crit. padding may be beneficial.

Even so with half armor values, 36 in this case you really would not need more than 3 components (10 HP each and not counting Ammo/Gauss) and the bigger the better to crit. pad with since the structure will be gone before it goes through components.

Well I have learned a lot, thanks again for the info.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Shar Wolf, on 26 February 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

You normally can only damage armor - but after the armor is gone you start damaging internal structure.
Every hit against IS has a chance to damage the items instead (or with? I'm a little vague myself) with some weapons (MG and LBAC for example) having a higher chance to 'crit' or hit the items.

Damage to components is 'also', not 'instead'.

Crit padding matters if you think someone's going to be trying to destroy the components in the section and you want something else in there instead. This is mostly relevant to avoid ammunition explosions, since those are pretty much always fatal unless CASE intervenes and you have a standard engine. Otherwise, it's not an issue.

If you want to know how it works:

When a hit (each hit is separate, so one AC/20 shell, one tick of a machine gun or laser, one missile, etc.) successfully deals critical damage, it will deal one, two, or three critical hits. Each of these critical hits deals an amount of HP damage equal to the weapon's damage to one component, and increases the damage the weapon dealt to your 'mech's armor/structure by 10% (so an AC/20 that scores a triple critical will deal 26 damage, for instance).

Each critical hit slot in a location has an equal chance of being struck by any given critical hit (1/6 in a head or leg, 1/12 in a torso or arm). A slot that has no equipment in it or is occupied by equipment that has already been broken by critical hits is treated as empty, and the critical hit checks again until it successfully strikes a filled critical hit slot. Ferro-fibrous armor and Endo Steel count as empty critical hit slots for these purposes.

Once a piece of equipment has taken an amount of critical hit damage equal to its HP, it is broken and no longer works. If that piece of equipment is a ton of ammunition or a gauss rifle, it stands a good chance of exploding and dealing damage to your 'mech like a weapon hit but with a damage equal to -all the unexploded ammunition in that component-. Gauss rifles, by comparison, are very safe and only explode for 15 damage (and Gauss Rifle ammo can't explode at all, it just jams). Ammo that doesn't explode from a critical hit that eats its last HP jams instead and that ton of ammunition can no longer be fired.

Because of this, 'padding' is mostly only important if you've got ammunition in that component, as it can help avert massive explosions. On the flip side, adding equipment to a location that's otherwise empty is risky because having something there to be critically hit means that the critical hits land and increase the damage of the base weapon.

It's worth noting that engine, gyroscope, cockpit, life support, sensors, and actuators all are full critical hit slots and can be critically hit- but dealing a critical hit to them doesn't actually do anything aside from net the critical hit damage bonus.

That same damage bonus is why machine guns are incredibly dangerous after armor is peeled off- they have a high critical hit chance and 'shoot' about ten times per second, so they deal a lot of critical hits.

[wintersborn]

So in this build forget about the use of SHS for heat but just for crit. padding. STK-3F

The sinks in the arms would help the chances of the ERLL's and the actuators from taking crit. damage. Also SHS's in the Head, Center torso and legs do the same for the othet "Components" like Life support, Sensors, Cockpit, Gyro, Engine and the leg/Foot actuators?

Or simply do not pad side torso's if there is nothing in them : )

Maybe they need a double slot, half ton item like CASE just for crit. padding. That might help brawling builds?

Edited by wintersborn, 26 February 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

The heat sinks in the arms would help prevent the lasers from being destroyed. Things like actuators, gyro, life support, cockpit, hips, and shoulders can not be crit. I'm not sure if they are ignored so they may still help lower the chances of other things being hit but they cannot be destroyed.

Crit padding is usually the very last thing I worry about in a build. The benefit is minimal but if the end result is sometimes an important piece of equipment survives a hit that would otherwise have killed it and the cost is moving around a few heat sinks then why not?

Edited by Rouken, 26 February 2014 - 03:55 PM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

They can be crit, but it doesn't do anything- as I said.

Elli Gujar, on 26 February 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

It's worth noting that engine, gyroscope, cockpit, life support, sensors, and actuators all are full critical hit slots and can be critically hit- but dealing a critical hit to them doesn't actually do anything aside from net the critical hit damage bonus.

CASE, on the other hand, is like Ferro Fibrous and Endo Steel- it counts as an 'empty' slot for critical hit purposes.

Edited by Elli Gujar, 26 February 2014 - 03:58 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Elli Gujar, on 26 February 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

If you want to know how it works:

I''ve had it explained many times - but haven't really had it sink in.
(mostly because in effect, the important bit is that certain weapons get more effective when the armor is gone)

Thanks for explaining anyways.

[wintersborn]

Elli Gujar, so all the listed components actuators etc. are not real components that take damage but do they count for the chance to be crit? For example if you had ammo in the leg and a crit. happened could you get lucky and it miss the ammo and hit the actuator resulting in no damage?

Also when you say "Empty slot" does that mean if there is critical damage and no components to take crit. damage, does it pass through the empty slots and go into your center torso?

BTW this is how my mech is built atm STK-3F I know its boring but it seems to do ok for a energy boat. I seem to loose allot of components when I play so that is why I was wondering if SHS might work better for some reason.

I would love to run 4ERPPC's but that's just too hot, but the best build I have seen is this STK-3F

Edited by wintersborn, 26 February 2014 - 05:13 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

wintersborn, on 26 February 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

Elli Gujar, so all the listed components actuators etc. are not real components that take damage but do they count for the chance to be crit? For example if you had ammo in the leg and a crit. happened could you get lucky and it miss the ammo and hit the actuator resulting in no damage?

In the original Tabletop game they were available to be hit and take damage - but that functionality has not yet (if it ever will) been added to MWO.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

wintersborn, on 26 February 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

Elli Gujar, so all the listed components actuators etc. are not real components that take damage but do they count for the chance to be crit? For example if you had ammo in the leg and a crit. happened could you get lucky and it miss the ammo and hit the actuator resulting in no damage?

Shar Wolf, on 26 February 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

In the original Tabletop game they were available to be hit and take damage - but that functionality has not yet (if it ever will) been added to MWO.

Exactly. They are supposed to be crittable, breakable elements, but PGI simply hasn't put that functionality in yet. Keep in mind that as those slots are not empty, the critical hit bonus to the weapon's damage does still apply (that being the damage dealt to your 'mech's structure points).

wintersborn, on 26 February 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

Also when you say "Empty slot" does that mean if there is critical damage and no components to take crit. damage, does it pass through the empty slots and go into your center torso?

No, when I say 'empty slot', I mean 'critical hit slot with nothing in it'. There is no anything to pass through or anything like that and frankly I find your question here confusing. Since I can't figure out what was miscommunicated, I will reassert here:

An empty critical hit slot (one with no equipment in it, or one filled with CASE, Ferro-Fibrous Armor, or Endo Steel, or one that used to contain equipment that now is broken) cannot be damaged by a critical hit and prompts a 'reroll' of which critical hit slot takes the damage from the critical hit.

This does not change which component/location of your 'mech is taking the critical damage. A critical hit to the left torso can only damage equipment in the left torso. Damage transfer as I described only applies to the raw normal damage to armor and structure, and only transfers when the entire location/component is destroyed and there is leftover damage.

wintersborn, on 26 February 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

BTW this is how my mech is built atm STK-3F I know its boring but it seems to do ok for a energy boat. I seem to loose allot of components when I play so that is why I was wondering if SHS might work better for some reason.

I would love to run 4ERPPC's but that's just too hot, but the best build I have seen is this STK-3F

Single heat sinks will in no way prevent you losing components at all. When Mechwarrior Online is referring to 'components', it is not referring to pieces of equipment (autocannon, heat sink, ECM, etc.) but to locations (Left arm, right leg, left torso, etc.), and the hit points of equipment have no relation to damage dealt to the location/component they are mounted in.

Edited by Elli Gujar, 26 February 2014 - 06:03 PM.

[wintersborn]

Sorry for the confusion Elli, some how I thought that crit. damage would go through a empty slot and transfer to another section of the mech like the center torso if the side torso had nothing in it.

But you cleared that up, thank you very much for your information.

Again tank you all for the information.