42 replies to this topic

[Ph30nix]

just came back recently and was about to hop into my old 4ac/2 jager and i notice a little yellow warning symbol telling me that firing more then 3 ac/2's will generate more heat then normal..... wtf? 4 ac/2s are still butt hurting people that badly they felt the need to nerf it farther?

again just came back recently when i last left as long as they were all group fired it was fine.

does anyone know if they said WHY 3 is the cut off point? if it something they said on the forums a link would rock, if its something said on twitter.... f that i dont use twitter.

[Tor6]

If you expect PGI to have reasons for the things they do then you expect too much, my friend.

Edited by Tor6, 26 February 2014 - 02:50 PM.

[Ph30nix]

Tor6, on 26 February 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

If you expect PGI to have reasons for the things they do then you expect too much, my friend.

saddly i know but i skimmed updates and i didnt see anything actually mentioning this change (there was alot to go thru so im expecting i missed it) because i have a feeling this is something people would have called out and PGI MIGHT have responded.....

[Bagheera]

Because people mistakenly thought chain fire macros increased damage output.

/thread.

[LawDawg]

The "Ghost Heat" implementation was put in to stop Boating.IE: 6 PPC Stalker / Quad AC2 / 8-9 ML build..ect.

Basically it was a bad ideal imho, and a knee jerk reaction to solve a prove a problem,

"Kill them from Boating, instead of fixing the weapons." <Not a PGI quote, but I cant imagine>.

Law

[Felio]

Very, very high and very sustainable DPS.

[Ground Pounder]

As has been stated, it was an attempt at balance, instead of taking the time to fix the parameters of the gun in respect to others in the class. As it stands, two AC2s do more damage over 4 seconds than an AC20 does (25ish v 20) and at less weight and critical slots. Add in range, AC20 shell speed nerf, among other things and you get a balance issue that needs to be addressed...like so many.

[Chemie]

even better, if you chain fire 3 AC2 you get ghost heat at incredible amounts. PGI posted that this is working as intended and proved it based on the flawed programming they used to implement it.

The intent was chain firing anything removed ghost heat but bottom line they way they program the queue counter, chain firing AC2 generates infinite ghost heat.

[Bagheera]

True Story:

Burst firing (alpha if you will) those same 3 ac2s not only does more damage than chain firing them, but it also doesn't trigger ghost heat.

The chain fire "problem" was a red herring and too many people fell for it.

Full disclosure: I've run various triple-deuce builds since closed beta and the only macro I know how to use can be found on the lens of a camera. Never used the "dakka macro" because I didn't want to nerf myself.

Edited by Bagheera, 26 February 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[LawDawg]

Chemie, on 26 February 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

even better, if you chain fire 3 AC2 you get ghost heat at incredible amounts. PGI posted that this is working as intended and proved it based on the flawed programming they used to implement it.

The intent was chain firing anything removed ghost heat but bottom line they way they program the queue counter, chain firing AC2 generates infinite ghost heat.

I can run my 3 AC2 / 2 ML Yeager Fine. Not in chain fire. She dont overheat unless im on target for a good 20+ sec or. Haven't exactly timed it. But 3 AC2 run fine as wine.

<EDIT> I dont Macro

Edited by SLDF LawDog, 26 February 2014 - 03:33 PM.

[LawDawg]

Bagheera, on 26 February 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

True Story:

Burst firing (alpha if you will) those same 3 ac2s not only does more damage than chain firing them, but it also doesn't trigger ghost heat.

<EDIT>Sorry, tried to add that to my post.............failed.

Edited by SLDF LawDog, 26 February 2014 - 03:36 PM.

[FupDup]

What I find to be utterly hilarious is the fact that heat was supposed to stop alpha striking and encourage chained-fire, but the AC/2 heat penalizes chain-firing and rewards alpha striking them.

[Ph30nix]

i wouldnt call 4 ac/2 boating and the only FIX it needed was a reduction in cockpit shake smoke and explosion so people wouldnt be blinded by it.

and you might be able to do more DPS then an ac 20 over 4 seconds but its similar situation of a laser to a PPC. damage gets REALLY spread out especially if alot of movement is involved. If someone stupid and sits till well then sorry they are screwed anyways.

i just dont understand why 3 is the cut of point of SAFE and 4 is considered OMG BOAT BOAT BOAT!!!!

[lsp]

Because crappy ghost heat, welcome to whiner warrior online.

[FactorlanP]

Better question is why do AC2s do so much damage per second?

[FupDup]

FactorlanP, on 26 February 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

Better question is why do AC2s do so much damage per second?

Because their damage per alpha compared to their tonnage is terrible (2 damage for 6 tons? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL). DPS is the only positive attribute they have, and even then alpha is still usually better than DPS in the grand scheme of things.

[Khobai]

Quote

Better question is why do AC2s do so much damage per second?

This and why do they generate so much heat? They generate 1 heat per 10 seconds in tabletop and 20 heat per 10 seconds in MWO. Thats 20 times more heat.

And why dont AC/5s have a ghost heat limit of 2?

[Kaldor]

Felio, on 26 February 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Very, very high and very sustainable DPS.

But you have to sit out in the open for a long time to really rack that DPS up. Its balanced pretty well actually. 4 AC5s on a Phract 4x is far more powerfull.

[Sandpit]

SLDF LawDog, on 26 February 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

The "Ghost Heat" implementation was put in to stop Boating.IE:

[Citation Needed]

I was under the impression that it was implemented to stop big alpha strikes. NOT boating

[Lightfoot]

AC2's are OP in MWO. huh?

I don't know, PGI is clinging to this QuakeWarrior mindset that the Mechs have too many weapons rather than face the truth, that MWO mechs are too weak and fragile to be in a Battletech based game.

Makes me sad. I used to have so much fun in Mechlab before all the nerfs! Now I almost never use Mechlab at all, which caused me to stop buying new Mechs since there is no longer any need for them.

Edited by Lightfoot, 26 February 2014 - 08:13 PM.