504 replies to this topic

[RG Notch]

It's entertaining to watch people hoist on their own petard. Folks who spent time telling people who had issues they were entitled whiners and how any issue would be fixed by the hard working, caring geniuses working at PGI. All that work driving away people who had issues with PGI's decisions and pushing negative threads to K town. Now it's hey folks lets talk about issues that are important to us. Let's try to talk reasonably and like adults because PGI always listens to that. I mean all that smart talk about ways to fix front loaded high damage pinpoint alphas got us a well thought out Ghost heat mechanic. Oh but they listened to the complaints and changed that right, or ECM, or SRMS, etc.
Remember, just because PGI doesn't listen about your big issue doesn't mean they don't listen, at least that's what people were saying before. I guess it was easier when PGI said most players dropped in groups and that was gospel, now when PGI says different it's misinterpreting and it's really more like only 16% of people want to drop solo based on the new maths. Everything was hunky dory until PGI changed their position about something these folks cared about.
You reap what you sow.

[wanderer]

Quote

Regardless of if they're data is correct and their interpreting it right or wrong.
They are working on the assumption that 84% of their players are solo.
In a team based game where grouping is allegedly encouraged, this should keep them awake at night wondering WTH happened?

It isn't, because they still got your money.

But yes, you're looking at a company that 1) Can't into statistics, 2) Cripples it's own grouping system and wonders why fewer people are grouping, and 3) Can't even manage a reasonably balanced matchmaker years in and after supposedly being out of beta.

[Von Falkenstein]

As the founder and leader of one of the first german units out there I can honestly say that PGI virtually did nothing to help teamplay oriented groups. Remember the 2-3 months span when they banned 8vs8 groups and only allowed 4 man groups until they sorted things out? What a frustrating time.

Anyways... we managed to endure and even prosper not because of but despite PGI's efforts:



To all those remaining units out there, no matter which natonality or size: Keep up your good work. I hope things will improve for us.

[Supersmacky]

Funny that premades are the supposed reason for all of this and yet I see them get rolled just like anyone else ALL THE TIME.

It has been stated and rightly so: the main reason for solo-player roflstomps are the players themselves. Poor tactics, lack of knowledge. unfamiliarity with maps/mechs/weapons, etc. You can't dumb down a game enough to account for all of that. If you try to you might as well be playing Old Maid: Online. And no, I am not saying solo-only/new players are dumb. Just saying this game is not your typical FPS and it takes a while to get used to that.

PGI should encourage community and grouping in order to help maintain balance, not destroy it.

[WarHippy]

RG Notch, on 11 March 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

It's entertaining to watch people hoist on their own petard. Folks who spent time telling people who had issues they were entitled whiners and how any issue would be fixed by the hard working, caring geniuses working at PGI. All that work driving away people who had issues with PGI's decisions and pushing negative threads to K town. Now it's hey folks lets talk about issues that are important to us. Let's try to talk reasonably and like adults because PGI always listens to that. I mean all that smart talk about ways to fix front loaded high damage pinpoint alphas got us a well thought out Ghost heat mechanic. Oh but they listened to the complaints and changed that right, or ECM, or SRMS, etc.
Remember, just because PGI doesn't listen about your big issue doesn't mean they don't listen, at least that's what people were saying before. I guess it was easier when PGI said most players dropped in groups and that was gospel, now when PGI says different it's misinterpreting and it's really more like only 16% of people want to drop solo based on the new maths. Everything was hunky dory until PGI changed their position about something these folks cared about.
You reap what you sow.

I'm not sure gloating is going to warm people to your side for any of the other topics you have had issues with. Perhaps you should just take solace in the fact that people are at least beginning to see things your way if not fully agreeing with your discontent and leave it at that. Perhaps if you shared your thoughts on the topic at hand rather than act smug you could find some common ground with the people you disagreed with in the past rather than create a bigger gap between you and them.

[RG Notch]

Von Falkenstein, on 11 March 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

As the founder and leader of one of the first german units out there I can honestly say that PGI virtually did nothing to help teamplay oriented groups. Remember the 2-3 months span when they banned 8vs8 groups and only allowed 4 man groups until they sorted things out? What a frustrating time.

Anyways... we managed to endure and even prosper not because of but despite PGI's efforts:


To all those remaining units out there, no matter which natonality or size: Keep up your good work. I hope things will improve for us.

Why would you hope it would get better when you just showed that groups will endure despite PGI's lack of concern? It seems odd logic to show how people will adapt and then expect that showing how you've adapted will encourage PGI to change what you're adapting to. If anything this is the type of data they are happy to receive.

[Panzerjotun]

What is the big shocker here? In a world filled with social tools this game has ZERO. There is no sense of community - this is not rocket science.

[RG Notch]

WarHippy, on 11 March 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

I'm not sure gloating is going to warm people to your side for any of the other topics you have had issues with. Perhaps you should just take solace in the fact that people are at least beginning to see things your way if not fully agreeing with your discontent and leave it at that. Perhaps if you shared your thoughts on the topic at hand rather than act smug you could find some common ground with the people you disagreed with in the past rather than create a bigger gap between you and them.

Why? Smug acting was the central tenet of said folks over other issues. I, unlike some of the people in question aren't trying to win people to my side or be popular on the forums and with the devs. I do however enjoy pointing out hypocrisy. Like when some special snowflakes can't just post in the official feedback thread about an issue but need to start their own thread it's ok when it's your issue.
My feelings on this issue don't matter anymore than they did on other issues and it's interesting to see other folks now on the opposite side and watching them try to influence a PGI decision with logic. If you check on most major issues PGI didn't respond either for 6 months or more unless the forums erupted in flames. I doubt reasoned debate will change things now. The best you are likely to get is blather that they are listening and will test things out and make changes, and that will likely only take 6 months or so from implementation. But that was ok for other issues, so why not trust PGI now?
Remember this is just their position at the time and could change for any reason without warning. Also they don't piss off the group style players because they don't care, it's because they care too much. Launch module is only a line in the sand. Insert whatever jibber jabber PGI uses to mollify people.

[Bishop Steiner]

Name115734, on 27 February 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

So the latest metrics tell us that teams are dwindling more and more. I have personally experienced this after coming back from 9 months of not playing to find most of the people used to play with and their respective teams either completely vanished or lapsed into inactivity.

When 8v8 came out in December 2012 our channels in the NA teamspeak would fill up fast with people looking for 8's, once the initial novelty wore off, only true premade teams would bother going through the hassle, and what a hassle it was, to actually try and get 8 man's going. Players didn't stop 8 man's due to competition, as premade haters, would like to believe, it came down to being a HUGE hassle to try to get an 8 man going.

So here we are 12's have come and very few people play them, 1%. Teams have either died out or lost many members. And we are stuck with a PUG experience, because to be honest PGI catered to the PUGs like an 80 yr old grandmother does her so-cute-its-ugly puppy.

Do you want to see teams come back in this "team oriented" game, or are you all for the randomness of these seeming endless meaningless battles?

Imagine what "Community Warfare" will look like if this 84% trend continues to grow, who cares about loyalties and fighting for houses or clans, we might as well all just stay mercenary.

Who really wants to play as team right? Its just so HARD to coordinate with other people and actually learn to cooperate.

They ever fogure out how to balance weapons in this game so "team matches" aren't just boring and repetitive Metarapes, I would be all fo rit. I PUG; not because HARD doesn't have enough people for 12 mans, but because I as a Medium Jock, I find the Chaos of PUG matches a lot more entertaining (and frustrating) than the Poptart/Arty fests that seem to be 90% of "Comp Pro Play". I do rather respect the few units that actually don't adhere to Meta, and hope with private matchmaking, we can get some nice epic 12 mans going with people who want to do more than Play Assault Mechs on Pogosticks.

[WarHippy]

RG Notch, on 11 March 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

Why? Smug acting was the central tenet of said folks over other issues. I, unlike some of the people in question aren't trying to win people to my side or be popular on the forums and with the devs. I do however enjoy pointing out hypocrisy. Like when some special snowflakes can't just post in the official feedback thread about an issue but need to start their own thread it's ok when it's your issue.

That may be, but pointing it out doesn't really add anything, rather it dilutes the subject and distracts the discussion by starting petty flame wars. I just don't see the point in it.

RG Notch, on 11 March 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

My feelings on this issue don't matter anymore than they did on other issues and it's interesting to see other folks now on the opposite side and watching them try to influence a PGI decision with logic. If you check on most major issues PGI didn't respond either for 6 months or more unless the forums erupted in flames. I doubt reasoned debate will change things now. The best you are likely to get is blather that they are listening and will test things out and make changes, and that will likely only take 6 months or so from implementation. But that was ok for other issues, so why not trust PGI now?
Remember this is just their position at the time and could change for any reason without warning. Also they don't piss off the group style players because they don't care, it's because they care too much. Launch module is only a line in the sand. Insert whatever jibber jabber PGI uses to mollify people.

I don't disagree, and I'm not saying you shouldn't argue with people, or that you must always maintain a reasonable discussion. However, there is a difference between having a heated debate and pointing your finger saying haha I was right suck it losers. Not that you said that exactly, but it is how you came off.

[Mott]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 March 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

I do rather respect the few units that actually don't adhere to Meta, and hope with private matchmaking, we can get some nice epic 12 mans going with people who want to do more than Play Assault Mechs on Pogosticks.

I have only been at MWO for a few months and until this week hadn't really run into the poptart meta that i read so much about on these forums.... but, man, now that I have ELO'd to the point that i'm up against this type of mech/pilot... yeah, I can see the frustration. Last night in a 12vs12 pug i had a match where we faced 2 highlanders, 2 victors and 2 CTF-3Ds... all kitted out with jets, ppcs, gauss and AC5s.

For the first 8 mins of the match they probably never got closer than 800m to any of their enemies. Just jumping and sniping, jumping and sniping. They would have won if our lights hadn't gone in and arty'd and airstrike'd them repeatedly.

If that is all competition level matches boil down to... then I want no part of it and will simply play-for-fun forever.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mott, on 11 March 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

I have only been at MWO for a few months and until this week hadn't really run into the poptart meta that i read so much about on these forums.... but, man, now that I have ELO'd to the point that i'm up against this type of mech/pilot... yeah, I can see the frustration. Last night in a 12vs12 pug i had a match where we faced 2 highlanders, 2 victors and 2 CTF-3Ds... all kitted out with jets, ppcs, gauss and AC5s.

For the first 8 mins of the match they probably never got closer than 800m to any of their enemies. Just jumping and sniping, jumping and sniping. They would have won if our lights hadn't gone in and arty'd and airstrike'd them repeatedly.

If that is all competition level matches boil down to... then I want no part of it and will simply play-for-fun forever.

Amen. A few crews break the cycle, but not enough. I would say out of every 10 12man Matches, I get ONE non meta match. Those are fun, but not worth the paint drying boredom of Poptarting. I know, it means I will never be a "Pro".... but what does being a pro get you again? A paycheck? Hot chicks? Respect outside of moms basement? Think I will leave my video game play for fun.

[Sephlock]

PhoenixFire55, on 11 March 2014 - 12:35 AM, said:

There is no such thing. Truly high Elo players don't need voice chat to work together, cover each other and focus fire on high priority targets. hit spacebar and left click.

FTFY.

Also, I am still pining for the girl in your sig pic. WHO IS SHE?! SOMEONE HAS TO KNOW!!!

[Roadbeer]

RG Notch, on 11 March 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

Words

The actual difference is, the people that I make fun of use hyperbole, A LOT OF CAPITAL LETTERS and !!!!!!!!!!!!
As many know, I would often agree with the problems/issues people had, I only made fun of ^^ those people, but many of you who throw the term "white knight" around didn't bother to read what was being said, just that you were being made fun of.
Either way, I'm happy you're happy.... finally

[RG Notch]

WarHippy, on 11 March 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

That may be, but pointing it out doesn't really add anything, rather it dilutes the subject and distracts the discussion by starting petty flame wars. I just don't see the point in it.

I don't disagree, and I'm not saying you shouldn't argue with people, or that you must always maintain a reasonable discussion. However, there is a difference between having a heated debate and pointing your finger saying haha I was right suck it losers. Not that you said that exactly, but it is how you came off.

Again, what did these people who are the main proponents of this complaint do before PGI changed their position relative to what they cared about? Mostly consisted of saying suck it losers, go post in the official feedback thread, you're not special. Of course when the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly making a new thread isn't so wrong.
Also, nothing is going to come out of reasoned discussion. Look at the evidence of things of how major changes were made. Removing 3PV from 12 man queue: forum explosion, change of consumables: forum explosion, clan pack ala carte: forum explosion. Anything that didn't have a forum explosion was back burnered for months on end. So if people are really concerned that this will have a negative impact, gets to the forum explosion or it will likely be too late.
PGI won't react until the forums are a dumpster fire, so either start it now or just wait for it to happen when the module drops, it may be too late by then. PGI's tone deaf reading of the forums and statistics aren't going to change with reasoned debate. They only seem to react when fire alarms are ringing.

[PhoenixFire55]

Sephlock, on 11 March 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

Also, I am still pining for the girl in your sig pic. WHO IS SHE?! SOMEONE HAS TO KNOW!!!

Where is your google-fu???

Somebody found where she is from ages ago. Fujisaki Rei (ふじさき怜) is the artist.

[Sandpit]

Roadbeer, on 11 March 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

The actual difference is, the people that I make fun of use hyperbole, A LOT OF CAPITAL LETTERS and !!!!!!!!!!!!
As many know, I would often agree with the problems/issues people had, I only made fun of ^^ those people, but many of you who throw the term "white knight" around didn't bother to read what was being said, just that you were being made fun of.
Either way, I'm happy you're happy.... finally

you forgot about them using a lot of ***** because they dont' seem to know how to communicate like a reasonable adult. Oh and how "easy" it is to do something or how they could do it better.

[Sandpit]

RG Notch, on 11 March 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

PGI won't react until the forums are a dumpster fire,

http://mwomercs.com/...-a-narc-update/
http://mwomercs.com/...-a-nerf-gun-at/

try again

because the "dumpster fire" method worked so well with 3pv
and ghost heat
and any number of other things

What your'e suggesting is a good roadmap to NOT be taken seriously

[RG Notch]

Sandpit, on 11 March 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...-a-narc-update/
http://mwomercs.com/...-a-nerf-gun-at/

try again

because the "dumpster fire" method worked so well with 3pv
and ghost heat
and any number of other things

What your'e suggesting is a good roadmap to NOT be taken seriously

Yet it worked to get 3PV out of 12 mans, it worked for Clan ala carte, it worked for delaying OB, it worked for consumables/ What you point out took months or years so like I said you go for other methods and in a year maybe PGI consider changes.
BTW other methods than dumpster fires were tried on the issues you mentioned and how did that work out?
So please be all reasonable and mature and see where it gets you. I'd say dumpster fires have a better record but don't let that deter you. Much like many issues that crop up with this game, this time it will be different. I mean two of PGI's darlings are behind it so maybe it will.

[Sandpit]

RG Notch, on 11 March 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Yet it worked to get 3PV out of 12 mans, it worked for Clan ala carte, it worked for delaying OB, it worked for consumables/ What you point out took months or years so like I said you go for other methods and in a year maybe PGI consider changes.
BTW other methods than dumpster fires were tried on the issues you mentioned and how did that work out?
So please be all reasonable and mature and see where it gets you. I'd say dumpster fires have a better record but don't let that deter you. Much like many issues that crop up with this game, this time it will be different. I mean two of PGI's darlings are behind it so maybe it will.

which is exactly why you are done as far as my conversation goes. I don't hit the streets and loot, I am a grown adult and conduct myself as such. If you want to act like a child or "set dumpster fires" then we have nothing else to discuss