504 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

Artgathan, on 13 March 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

What if we allowed groups to drop in 2 - 12 size inside of PUGs but pilots dropping in groups (that were over 4 pilots in size) were subject to repair / rearm fees?

Again, penalizing people for having friends. And the greifing that would come from haters of the Evil Premade Boogeyman like Mudhutwarrior would become rampant.

[Artgathan]

Sandpit, on 13 March 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

I'm sure at this point players would agree with that if that was the only alternative but I still don't see why people keep wanting to punish and dissuade those who just want to drop in a group larger than 4.

Roadbeer, on 13 March 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

Again, penalizing people for having friends. And the greifing that would come from haters of the Evil Premade Boogeyman like Mudhutwarrior would become rampant.

Don't get me wrong - I think we should be able to drop in groups of any size as well. I simply put the Repair and Rearm idea forward as some kind of compromise. I don't particularly like the idea (since it does punish teamwork and would likely damage your ability to have fun [since you can play with your friends, but not necessarily with your favorite mech]). I was really looking forwards to weight limits - the RRB's [my corp] participation jumped when weight limits were mentioned and have now fizzled out again.

[Roadbeer]

Artgathan, on 13 March 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

I simply put the Repair and Rearm idea forward as some kind of compromise. .

I get that, I'm actually a fan of R&R, but not as a compromise.
Groups have had to compromise enough over a year now, we've had to compromise on either breaking into smaller units, or compromise on having low drop count while trying to build/maintain a max group.
Solos have had to make no compromises except 'endure' our presence, while they are constantly catered to.

Personally, I say "Enough!"

[Sandpit]

Artgathan, on 13 March 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong - I think we should be able to drop in groups of any size as well. I simply put the Repair and Rearm idea forward as some kind of compromise. I don't particularly like the idea (since it does punish teamwork and would likely damage your ability to have fun [since you can play with your friends, but not necessarily with your favorite mech]). I was really looking forwards to weight limits - the RRB's [my corp] participation jumped when weight limits were mentioned and have now fizzled out again.

Out of all the compromises and ideas I've seen having the separate queue that solo players can opt into is the best so far in my opinion. I don't think it will "fix" the things PGI is hoping group limits will for a lot of reasons but it gives players options instead of restrictions and anytime you can give players options instead of restrictions will always result in happier players overall.

[Novakaine]

Those who don't know lore or could just care less about.
Lance = 4 Battlemechs
Company = 12 Battlemechs
Battalion = 36 Battlemechs
Regiment = 108 Battlemechs.
Lone Wolf = 1 battlemech that runs off in the first 3 minutes of a match and dies.
PGI put the word team back in the game.
Seriously.

[Roadbeer]

Novakaine, on 13 March 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

Lone Wolf = 1 battlemech that runs off in the first 3 minutes of a match and dies.
PGI put the word team back in the game.
Seriously.

QFT

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Novakaine, on 13 March 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

Lone Wolf = 1 battlemech that runs off in the first 3 minutes of a match and dies.
PGI put the word team back in the game.

Its funny because its hyperbole. So do you not have any scouts? is it because you ostracized them all? I am starting to see why it is so hard for you get a full 12 man team together.

[Sephlock]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 13 March 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

Its funny because its hyperbole. So do you not have any scouts? is it because you ostracized them all? I am starting to see why it is so hard for you get a full 12 man team together.

In fairness sometimes that applies.

[Novakaine]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 13 March 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

Its funny because its hyperbole. So do you not have any scouts? is it because you ostracized them all? I am starting to see why it is so hard for you get a full 12 man team together.

I see you have once again found the Fountain of Silliness.
They are only scouts if the actually report something.
However in your favorite meta they just normally run off die then disconnect.
Without typing a word of information.
"Any word from the scouts Sgt?"
"Er no sir not a peep from the scout lance."
"Scout lance?"
"Yes sir 2 Jagerbombs, 1 poptart and a Commando sir."
"Did I not order a link up Sgt!"
"Yes you did, but maybe there's a comm problem sir."
"But they are about 2000 meters out as you can............"
"Ah sorry sir we just lost the poptarder."
"Hmmmm looks like a headshot and a LRM bath.
"For the love of ............."
"And oh jeez there goes the jagerbombs, ah looks like they ran out of ammo and...."
"And what Sgt?"
"Gotta admit that was hell of a arty strike sir"
"Ok Sgt just where the crap is the commando at now?"
"Ah looks like Hotel 8 heading due west sir."
"Any blasted targets over there?"
Ah no sir he just appears to running.........well that was dumb."
"What?"
"Well Commander looks like he just slammed into the boundary and blew himself up."
"Ya got to be joking right?"
"No sir never must have just dc'd."
"Well did they have anything to report."
"Sorry sir they only said they were dead and dead men don't talk"

Edited by Novakaine, 13 March 2014 - 08:05 PM.

[Davers]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 13 March 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

Its funny because its hyperbole. So do you not have any scouts? is it because you ostracized them all? I am starting to see why it is so hard for you get a full 12 man team together.

No, it's funny because it is funny. Don't be such a wet towel.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Davers, on 13 March 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

No, it's funny because it is funny.

Thanks, you having to explain it makes it even funnier.

[Davers]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 13 March 2014 - 09:47 PM, said:

Thanks, you having to explain it makes it even funnier.

Always glad to help the humour impaired. ;p

[wanderer]

Quote

so the server puts a bunch of low-elo players on our side and and throws us an enemy team of medium-skilled players.

This is quite common - the first team is relatively well-balanced ELO-wise against each other, while the second is a few higher ELO players with a liberal leavening of newbies.

I've had as many as 7 Trials in the same group vs. a horde of meta-compliant opponents. "Turkey shoot" is an understatement, and you can easily tell these days that a team with significant numbers of newbies is there- and you're going to lose. There's a reason for the "Carry Hard!" threads, and it's the MM producing teams like this that spawn having to carry to win...if you can.

[Deathlike]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 13 March 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

Its funny because its hyperbole. So do you not have any scouts? is it because you ostracized them all? I am starting to see why it is so hard for you get a full 12 man team together.

Most light mechs don't scout. When they do scout, not everyone listens.

In an ideal world, people cooperate to accomplish stuff.

In the MWO reality, people don't always do the fundamental basics. That has little to do with the existence of 12-mans. Real life > MWO.

[WarHippy]

Tycho von Gagern, on 12 March 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Sorry, I don't want to run a 'phract, 'lander, Victor, or Jenner. I'm not into PPCs. I'm not into ECM. There's no place for me in the team v team environment. That's how I've been made to feel by this community, anyway.

I think you take what some people say too seriously. Those mechs and weapons are talked about a lot because they are common, and people like to jump on the band wagon, but that doesn't mean you are forced into using them or even the same tactics if you don't wish. League of Legends has a similar "problem" where people feel you must follow the meta, and use only the best champions, but as soon as one of the pros uses what was considered a trash tier champ everyone starts to talk about how sleeper over powered that champ really was. The point being play how you want with what you want in the manner that works best for you, and stop worrying so much about what the groups are doing.

Tycho von Gagern, on 12 March 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Maybe you don't realize it, but the rep team v team has is as a bunch of tryhards who spend more time complaining about their teammates' builds "dragging down the unit" than actually dropping. It has the reputation of being a place where cookie-cutter builds, tactics, and strategies are not only the norm, but rigidly enforced. Now you tell me there are plenty of teams that don't do that. Then I respond that those teams have a reputation as being nothing more than food for teams that do.

I'm a solo player, and I am at a loss as to where you get this impression from. The groups I see seem to be having a lot of fun just playing together. Some sling some light hearted mocking of other house units they come in contact with around, but I would hardly call it a negative environment. Sure, some units take things more seriously than others, but that is to be expected in a competitive environment.

Tycho von Gagern, on 12 March 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

On the other hand, I drop solo in the PUG, where I perform well and get good matches most of the time. I don't have to wait long for a drop and I get to explore my own play style, both on the field and in the mechlab, which continues to evolve and grow as I continue to try new things. This is fun.

The fun part is subjective, but the part about not having to wait for a drop is a big reason there are many more solo drops than team drops. It isn't because the solo drops are more fun for people, but they are certainly more efficient. If you are not waiting on other people to go to the bathroom, or fiddle with their mech you can drop in more matches than people that are dropping in a group. Dropping solo can be a great way to farm xp/c-bills, but it isn't necessarily what that person wants to be doing. Either way there is nothing wrong with dropping solo if that is what you find fun, but you shouldn't use it as an excuse to prevent people from having fun dropping with their friends if that is what they find to be fun.

Tycho von Gagern, on 12 March 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Team v team has a reputation as not fun. As a place where fun goes to die at the alter of victory. If 84% of the community doesn't find that appealing, maybe you should get past your shock, quit asking what's wrong with the community at large, and start asking what's wrong with team v team.

Again, I don't know where you get this impression from but I don't see it, and it isn't accurate to say that 84% of the community doesn't find dropping in groups appealing because that is a gross misunderstanding of the data and the wording that was used to provide the data.

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 14 March 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

I think you take what some people say too seriously. Those mechs and weapons are talked about a lot because they are common, and people like to jump on the band wagon, but that doesn't mean you are forced into using them or even the same tactics if you don't wish. League of Legends has a similar "problem" where people feel you must follow the meta, and use only the best champions, but as soon as one of the pros uses what was considered a trash tier champ everyone starts to talk about how sleeper over powered that champ really was. The point being play how you want with what you want in the manner that works best for you, and stop worrying so much about what the groups are doing.

I'm a solo player, and I am at a loss as to where you get this impression from. The groups I see seem to be having a lot of fun just playing together. Some sling some light hearted mocking of other house units they come in contact with around, but I would hardly call it a negative environment. Sure, some units take things more seriously than others, but that is to be expected in a competitive environment.

The fun part is subjective, but the part about not having to wait for a drop is a big reason there are many more solo drops than team drops. It isn't because the solo drops are more fun for people, but they are certainly more efficient. If you are not waiting on other people to go to the bathroom, or fiddle with their mech you can drop in more matches than people that are dropping in a group. Dropping solo can be a great way to farm xp/c-bills, but it isn't necessarily what that person wants to be doing. Either way there is nothing wrong with dropping solo if that is what you find fun, but you shouldn't use it as an excuse to prevent people from having fun dropping with their friends if that is what they find to be fun.

Again, I don't know where you get this impression from but I don't see it, and it isn't accurate to say that 84% of the community doesn't find dropping in groups appealing because that is a gross misunderstanding of the data and the wording that was used to provide the data.

+1 QFT

Now if PGI would just realize this

[wanderer]

wanderer, on 14 March 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

This is quite common - the first team is relatively well-balanced ELO-wise against each other, while the second is a few higher ELO players with a liberal leavening of newbies.

In fact, here's a golden example of just what I mean by how the ELO does things.



Note that this one started when I accidentally got shot TWICE by my own lance from two different people trying to figure out how the guns worked, leaving me with no back armor and a seriously damaged side torso as I turned around from the first "test shot" and got blasted by the other one. They weren't even out of their cadet bonuses yet. Compare it to the premade + meta/Hero horde on the other side- even the TRIAL they had was driven by someone competent, not a newbie.

I don't blame for shooting me, either. They were newbies. They don't belong there. I just ran in after that and got myself killed off as fast as possible so I could get a bit of reading in while they slaughtered the rest of the team- note the one kill they got was the overeager Jester pilot that was trying to get a kill on everything and ended up getting shot at least once by his own team in the process. Most of the time they spent chasing the one Firestarter around until it succumbed to 11v1 fire.

Does that look like "ELO matching" to anyone?

[Zolaz]

PGI's matchmaker tries to ensure that you a horrible game half the time. The better you become at the game, the more albatrosses get slung around your neck. Playing at odd times will accent this even more.

It isnt hard to believe that people are upset with PGI, it is called experience.

[Roadbeer]

wanderer, on 14 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

In fact, here's a golden example of just what I mean by how the ELO does things.



Note that this one started when I accidentally got shot TWICE by my own lance from two different people trying to figure out how the guns worked, leaving me with no back armor and a seriously damaged side torso as I turned around from the first "test shot" and got blasted by the other one. They weren't even out of their cadet bonuses yet. Compare it to the premade + meta/Hero horde on the other side- even the TRIAL they had was driven by someone competent, not a newbie.

I don't blame for shooting me, either. They were newbies. They don't belong there. I just ran in after that and got myself killed off as fast as possible so I could get a bit of reading in while they slaughtered the rest of the team- note the one kill they got was the overeager Jester pilot that was trying to get a kill on everything and ended up getting shot at least once by his own team in the process. Most of the time they spent chasing the one Firestarter around until it succumbed to 11v1 fire.

Does that look like "ELO matching" to anyone?

Zolaz, on 14 March 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

PGI's matchmaker tries to ensure that you a horrible game half the time. The better you become at the game, the more albatrosses get slung around your neck. Playing at odd times will accent this even more.

It isnt hard to believe that people are upset with PGI, it is called experience.

6,284 different threads about Matchmaker, and you feel the need to turn this into one?

[Leroifou]

Roadbeer, on 13 March 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

I get that, I'm actually a fan of R&R, but not as a compromise.
Groups have had to compromise enough over a year now, we've had to compromise on either breaking into smaller units, or compromise on having low drop count while trying to build/maintain a max group.
Solos have had to make no compromises except 'endure' our presence, while they are constantly catered to.

Personally, I say "Enough!"

Also a fan of R&R but in a team game, team play should be rewarded not punished.
Give bonus C-Bills proportional to the number of members in your team and see how quickly the 84% solo drops number changes.
Having more teams out there would improve the "one 4-man stomping all the PUGs", not make it worse. More teams in the queue means more teams on each side. Rather than have 10 PUGs go in 10 different direction you might only have a few PUGs on each team with the choice of coordinating with either team A or team B. Overall I think you'd see much more coordinated drops.

More TEAM bonuses please!!!!

Edited by Leroifou, 14 March 2014 - 03:53 PM.