51 replies to this topic

[Bishop113]

Hello, some of you may recognize me as I've asked for advice on a couple occasions before on how to get better at this game and everyone's advice was always great and actually helped immensely. I still only rarely play and when I do it's in bursts and alone because I don't like having to group with friendlies just as a matter of convenience and let's say "commitment" issues are a problem in my game playing habits.

But I still am having the worst experience with MWO, I want to love this game but nothing about it is allowing that to happen. So I hopped into a bunch of games today specifically because of the free Centurion event and I have it now finally after what at least seemed like hours of gameplay today but I have been nothing but angry since I started playing today and because I needed to count how many matches I won so I would know when I would be done and would get the centurion, it became very clear to me that I lose a lot of games. Now in my stats my win/loss ratio is fairly even and usually remains as such but that isn't very fun, when I login and lose two matches in a row I instantly alt+f4 the game, I refuse to play a game in which I am having such a bad time so consistently.

At first I though it was just me, I'm a bad player and I was at first, I think I'm much better now, here are my stats as of today.



My K/D is fine, exactly where I want my K/D in any competitive game, but my win/loss ratio at least in my eyes is abysmal. Nearly 1:1 is just not a great ratio, to me this translates to having fun half the time I play this game, the other half is the worst thing ever!

The problem is I just don't have another option, this is the only game out right now in which I can hop into a mech's cockpit and blast some lasers into other mechs, I like Mechwarrior, I like the slower paced action, the throttle, everything. What I don't like is having a bad time either because I got matched with a bad team or maybe this game just has an awful matchmaking system so good players are getting matched against new players or it's a big mixed hodge podge, I don't know but it's frustrating getting into a match, doing everything I can to communicate, stick with my team, fire at common targets etc. and yet I still end up getting clobbered or we lose because all of my team mates decide to behave like bafoons.

I played a match earlier, it was a Skirmish, I spawned in the match started, I went ahead and follow three other guys in my lance, why I do not know but I did. Of course we run into the entire enemy force, two of the guys are way behind me and the other is running out ahead of me, he takes a bunch of damage but gets a kill, he later dies. I retreat back a way, let the other two guys catch up, they fumble around getting picked apart by four or so lighter mechs so I storm in and knockout 4 lights with the AC/20, kill shot on each, then finally the rest of the team catches up, I get one other kill against a medium and we eventually win. There are people like this in almost every match I play and it's not like I'm devoid of mistakes I have done the exact same thing a couple times and spelled defeat for my team and often times my deaths are due to my carelessness. However a lot more than I would like I end up getting abandoned on the front line, or I'm sitting there doing the heavy lifting, trying my best to dish out damage and not take too much myself while my team mates are timidly huddling around a wall conserving their ammo, there have been times where my entire team does this and ends up getting surrounded and just demolished because they're all in one spot or they go through a bottleneck and one-by-one get picked off as if they thought they stood a chance!

It's just maddening! And as someone who doesn't like matching with other players it's just a hugely frustrating experience and because there's no other option for a mechwarrior style experience I feel like I have to just keep ramming my head into this brick wall and try to savor the victories no matter how spread out and random they feel.

Bot matches would go a super long way to remedy this issue for me although I know the status of any kind of single player and how that type of feature is seen around these parts, but I'm never going to support this game with real money when I feel like the game is having fun with me rather than the way it should be which is me having fun playing the game.

A bit of a vent I suppose, maybe I'm alone on this but man I wish I could enjoy this more than I do.

[Veranova]

It is a problem, but it's also something I doubt can ever be truly solved in a PvP environment.

Statistically, 50% of players must lose a game.
Therefore Statistically your w/l will gravitate towards 1/1, because of the way matchmaking & ELO tries to place you in these teams.
The problem is our brains often tend to hook on to those losses, so it feels more like a 1/2 ratio, which isn't fun.

I think Titanfall tackled this very well. Playing the beta, even on the losing side I had a lot of fun, and never realised I was losing until the end.

But the well known solution to tip your odds around HERE, is to group with other players, and co-ordinate your lance tactically.
Look up the teamspeak servers for Comstar or NGNG (No Guts No Galaxy). They're both open Teamspeaks where you can hook up with other Lonewolf players such as yourself without commitment.
I see a lot of very good players in game who I've later seen sitting in channels on those servers.

Alternatively you can join a gaming community, of which there are many in the recruitment section of the forum. Many of these do not expect a massive commitment from you, but showing up a few times a week is certainly preferred.

Hope that helps man

Edited by Veranova, 22 February 2014 - 09:26 AM.

[Not Bob]

The matchmaker is a fickle piece of software. It will try to match up your teams ELO score with the opponents ELO score, so lets say you have a good ELO, but Joe has a bad ELO score. The match maker will average it out, and you could face 2 OK ELO score players. This leads up to some interesting teams... You'll have guys that will charge straight at the enemy, like you described above, and then you will have flankers, some guys will communicate, alot of guys won't, and so on and so forth. (Note: if your W/L is ~1 then the MM is actually succeeding in its attempt to match skill levels)


I know quite often the pain of watching other pugs try to fight, and watch as they blow the massive lead you helped get. (One time our team was up 7-1, then after my pre-made died we ended up losing 7-12). The best way to have fun in this game, is to just relax, know you did your part, and just be goofy every now and then. (I see you've only run about 110 games total, I've run about 2500).

I play in a Merc Unit called the Aces Wild, and my company has a drop night that we get together and do pre-made 12mans. We usually lose because we like to run lighter to prepare for tonnage limits, but after 3-4 matches, we then go all goofy, and do pre-mades of 12 spiders, 12 lights, or something just all out goofy. We try not to take it too seriously, as this will cause you to not enjoy the game.


So I think what I'm trying to tell you, is just enjoy the game as a MW title, relax a bit when you're having periods of losses, and keep pushing through.

[Ustarish]

unfortunately for us this is a team based game.
so you either deal with losing "a lot" [like i did] or group up.

[Unnatural Growth]

That's pugging man. Sounds harsh, but you either have to learn to deal with it, or MWO will never really be your game. I will never understand why PGI doesn't put in game VOIP in the game. They go on and on ad nauseum about this being a "team game", but intentionally leave out a core pillar of team organization. If just defies all common sense.

Oh well, such as it is...

Basically you have to keep one eye on the enemy in front of you, and one eye on the PUGs behind you. You never know what your team mates will do. All of a sudden you see them all take off in some stupid direction... Even if you think that's a mistake, you pretty much have to go with them, or get singled out and pounded on by the enemy team.

General Patton once said He'd rather have a German Division in front of him than a French Division behind him. At least he knew what the German's would do...

[Durant Carlyle]

Bishop113, on 22 February 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

I want a single-player game.

Yep. This is a multiplayer-only game that may eventually (years from now) have a single-player experience attached to it. That's just the way it is.

The second-best advice I can give you (because you have already rejected the best advice I normally give: group up with other players) is to not base your enjoyment on whether you win or lose. Every match is an opportunity for fun, and I certainly have fun even when my team loses 0-12. After you die, stay in the match and spectate the other players. Learn what to do and what not to do from them.

By the way, the stats you posted are pretty good. Certainly nothing to be complaining about, especially since you drop solo.

[Redshift2k5]

To me, most matches that are a loss are still fun. Sometimes goign down in a blaze of glory and getting a kill when grossly outnumbered at the bottom end of a losing match are the most exciting moments, stealing a kill before the grim reaper gets you.

I have fun pugging, but I have more fun when I can group up with familiar faces and we can woerk together.

So, some tips from someone who has been playing this game for nearty two years:

• Playing with friends is great
  
• Buying a new chassis gives fresh options to experiment with builds
  
• Set short-term goals (I want to elite this mech, I want to get good with gauss rifles, I want to save CB to buy this particular module)
  
• Invest in premium time to alleviate the grind
  
• Invest in the community, visit NGNG streams, make friends

[no one]

Makes me wonder. Has there been any explanation of how ELO is calculated?

If ELO matching is based on W/L ratio, and is averaged between teams, that might explain some of the weird matchmaker rubber-banding. Especially if you don't have tiers and are trying to glob together people who have been playing for years with people who haven't figured out weapon ranges yet. Take someone who spends each match shooting the ground and his team will carry him through a few matches. He gets 5 consecutive wins by riding like this and now he's a "good" player and gets matched with other dirt shooting scrubs to balance his w/l ratio. Loses 5, gets put in with juggernaughts. . . rinse and repeat.

Edit -

Bishop, you've got really good stats for a pick up gamer so I'm sure you know this, but the primary thing you want in disorganized matches is speed. Speed gets you out when the enemy brings ten enemies to your three. Speed gets you to the two isolated enemies fighting one ally four map grids away. Speed is flexibility, speed is life. You can't always communicate, so reaction speed is the next best thing.

Edited by no one, 22 February 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[Bishop113]

This is my second profile, I haven't played anywhere near 2500 matches but I have played a little more than you see in those stats, these are my stats from my other profile, I started a new account after I was told how to improve my game to A. take advantage of the new player bonus which was gone on my previous account and B. to see if I was improving without relying on my bad W/L and K/D on my past profile.



I know it's better to drop with friends or even just a group on ventrilo or teamspeak but what I said about commitment is the main problem, I like being able to just pop open the game and go and not have to setup my microphone or coordinate with other people. It's one my ultimate complaints with any multiplayer game, if I can't get into a match quickly, I won't play it. MWO's matchmaking is rather slow and it takes longer than I would like to get into a game, which I think if it were faster the feeling of loss might be a little less meaningful, but such as it is now I'm spending 2-7 minutes waiting for a game and 2-10 minutes in match winning or losing 50% of my matches.

I also played Titanfall quite a lot during the beta as Veranova mentioned and yeah I had a good time playing that game even when I wasn't doing so hot, I think this is the case for a number of reasons, for one, dying isn't the end of the line, you don't die and then have to go back to the main menu and relaunch with a trial mech or wait 10-15 minutes for your only mech to be released, you just respawn and keep on trucking, which is why if a single player mode is never going to happen I wish PGI would at least give us a respawn enabled mode, I would rather spend 30 minutes in a match respawning and trying to get the one up on my opponents instead of 2 minutes in a match and then waiting 18 minutes to get into another match with my only owned and well setup mech. I now have the Centurion of course but I have no idea what a good build is for him or how to set him up but that's another matter. I think MWO is too focused on murdering your opponents, Titanfall and even other games like Battlefield have modes that are focused not on killing but on capturing points, so in Titanfall there are players on the top of the end game leaderboard who have 3 kills and 5 deaths but they have a ton of points because they just captured the hardpoints during the whole match, they died more but they got way more points than everyone else so he/she did well even with a bad K/D. That doesn't feel like the case in MWO because every mode is contingent on killing the other team, even the Assault and Conquest modes you win if you kill the other team, so while a team can win with one mech left if the other team ignored capture points, typically whoever shoots the most mechs is going to win regardless and that's ridiculous, it basically just becomes a distraction in the match.

Either a respawn mode with repairing and respawning allowed that is focused on objective based gameplay rather than just TDM every match would be a lot more enjoyable. Or at least speed up the matchmaking process and let me launch with my mech again after I lose and drop out of the match.

[Hauser]

no one, on 22 February 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

Makes me wonder. Has there been any explanation of how ELO is calculated?

Yes. Also check the other posts in the Command Chair section.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1626065

no one, on 22 February 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

If ELO matching is based on W/L ratio, and is averaged between teams, that might explain some of the weird matchmaker rubber-banding. Especially if you don't have tiers and are trying to glob together people who have been playing for years with people who haven't figured out weapon ranges yet. Take someone who spends each match shooting the ground and his team will carry him through a few matches. He gets 5 consecutive wins by riding like this and now he's a "good" player and gets matched with other dirt shooting scrubs to balance his w/l ratio. Loses 5, gets put in with juggernaughts. . . rinse and repeat.

Elo match making does not use your W/L ratio.

To update your score it uses the outcome of the match and the average Elo of both teams. If you win an equal match you'll go up the normal amount, if you lose, you go down. If you won a challenging match, you go up more, you lose an easy match you go down allot. If you win an easy match, you go up a little, ect.

The result of the combination of match making based on Elo and the way the Elo rating works, can however result in winning as much as you lose. Not because the match maker dictates it but because when given equal players on both teams, you're expected to win about half of them.

The chance of getting lucky 5 times in a row with a 50% of winning is about 3%. Should it happen there is good reason to assume those matches weren't equal and that you were a contributing factor in it. Hence the Elo rating you got from winning those 5 matches is probably deserved. Of course if it was a fluke and you're now overrated you'll quickly lose a few high rated matches that you should have won and you'll be back where you are.

Now you have to also keep in mind that Elo rates how good you are at winning games. It doesn't look or care about how you are doing that. If some one is winning by brining 3 friends that carry him along his rating goes up. Doesn't make him a good pilot, just some one whos good at having friends that can help him win games.

Edited by Hauser, 22 February 2014 - 02:54 PM.

[Kjudoon]

There is only one thing that made this game worth playing for me: joining a guild. It doesn't matter who it is for you, but being alone in this game kills the soul and leaves you really with only half of what this game is currently, and when CW kicks in, it will be even less. You need to be in a group, with voice connection to enjoy this game. No exceptions IMNSHO. The hard part is finding the right group because let's be honest, there are a LOT of groups out there who will chew you up and spit out the seeds.

I was literally days away from ragequitting when I put my name up in the Merc Hiring Hall. Feeling like a loser because I was having such terrible fortune with the game I gave it a shot, suddenly I got over 15 recruitment invites for a decent LRM/Scout pilot. I spent my time going through them and finding the group that best matched my team play, ethics and ideas on what the game is about. I found it in the Seraphim. This group of men and women showed me how awesome this game can be with the brotherhood, solidarity and community they foster there. I started casual, but quickly joined some of their competative companies and have really been able to flourish in the game because of their help.

We're not everyone's cup of tea. Our code of conduct is strict but when we have entire families in our unit of husbands, wives and their children, a clean family friendly place is enforced. I've 'son-of-a-diddly'ed so many times or slapped the mute button before an explative rolled out of my mouth, you've no idea. We're also strongly rooted in our faith, but that will not exclude anyone from being a member if they can respect that we figuratively drop to our knees and pray for anyone who is in need of prayer and spiritual help and keep to the code of conduct. In fact we have at least 1 atheist who's a member that I know of and we're all happy to have him.

All that said, again, find a group that fits your needs, but give us a look at www.seekhim.com. Casual or competative, we are always looking. It's not just about the game. It's about relationships that transcend the game.

[Hauser]

Bishop113, on 22 February 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

This is my second profile, I haven't played anywhere near 2500 matches but I have played a little more than you see in those stats, these are my stats from my other profile, I started a new account after I was told how to improve my game to A. take advantage of the new player bonus which was gone on my previous account and B. to see if I was improving without relying on my bad W/L and K/D on my past profile.

http://img823.images...3/8194/wdol.png

Mmh. Your win loss and k/d looks okay for some one who hasn't played much.

The XP per match seems to be a bit low though. When you win a match, do you survive till the end? If not you may need to work on your torso twisting. Granted it can be damn hard in trial mechs because your movement is clumsy as hell without the 2x bonus on the basics.

The build that comes with the Champion Centurion is okay. Centurions have really robust hitboxes. The trick to mastering the build is to twist to your target, unload and continue twisting. Then repeat the other way. This will spread the damage all over while allowing you to deal good damage. It is a short range brawler though so it does rely on backup from the team. If you're left hanging you'll bungle. That said, at 90kphs you can dictate most of your battles.

Couple of other things to keep in mind, focus fire on a target that some one else is shooting. Stay on that target for as long as possible. When shooting a target, press R and look at the target info. Aim for the damaged legs and torso sections. Mechs go down much quicker when people are all shooting the same bodypart on the same mech. Also remember who was damaged where. That way you don't have to wait for the target info to popup again.

edit: Also open up your missile bay doors: http://mwomercs.com/...-missile-doors/

If you want more or practice a shooting mechs you could try playing Mechwarrior 4. Either Vengance or Mercenaries (or both!). The games have been released for free, though I recommend you get the torrent, the official download site is down. The game is single player so you don't have any slow downs and you can mess around as much as you like. Even though it looks pretty dated its a good learning tool for MWO. For me at least the transition from MW4 to MWO was pretty seamless. It just looked fancier and it had a cross-hair-and-meat-ball instead of just a crosshair.

edit:

Anyway to the point. If you don't like the game, you don't like the game. Nothing can really change that. Best thing you can do in that scenario is to find something that suits you better. If anything you shouldn't grind and hope it gets better. The grind should be part of playing the game normally and should coincidently leave you with more stuff afterwards.

I just mechs, I like the depth that comes from playing the positional game and I'm playing with some really cool people. That does it for me. If you want some short instant action this probably isn't the game for you. Though you should still try MW4.

Edited by Hauser, 22 February 2014 - 04:42 PM.

[Bishop113]

Like I said, that's my old profile, I've already greatly improved my game as you can see in the first post. I've played Mechwarrior 1-4 and none of them age well at all, otherwise i would continue playing them, MW4 being my least favorite in the series. This is my problem and why I ultimately come back to this game regardless of how bad a time I have, there is no other options period. This is the only Mechwarrior game available right now that I haven't already played through or hasn't aged like a banana, Hawken is just a bad shooter, Titanfall while fun isn't really the type of mech action I want, so what else is there? MWO, that's it, there is no "this isn't the game for you," this is the only game where I can get this kind of gameplay.

This is why I wish they would add bot matches or at least something to make it a better more enjoyable game for people who aren't running in clans, this is it, this is the only Mechwarrior game and the multiplayer fans aren't the only Mechwarrior fans in existence.

EDIT: I would also like to note the unforgiving nature of getting into this game, I have actually tried to get existing friends to play this game with me, I even convinced my friend to purchase a founders pack back when the alpha or whatever originally started, we both purchased the 60$ founders pack and after about a week got a refund and stopped playing, neither of us were doing well at all. There are no good in game tutorials, unless they've been added recently? So the only way you'll know to twist around to spread damage and the different roles and applications of different mechs and weaponry, or that you should be focusing on damaging one part on the enemy instead of just blasting at them hoping to score a kill etc. is if you ask on the forums or read through the guides and watch tutorial videos, that is not conducive to getting someone unfamiliar with Mechwarrior into the game, my other friends just look at it and say "oof that's too complicated, I'm out!" so they don't even try it. I mean even myself having played all the previous main title mechwarrior games had to ask advice just to get to a point where I wasn't dying every match I played.

Edited by Bishop113, 22 February 2014 - 05:11 PM.

[no one]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Something like the four intro missions to Mechwarrior 2 mercenaries would probably help. The movement tutorial is. . . something, but it lacks flavor and is far from a complete source of information on the game mechanics.

Hauser, on 22 February 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1626065
Elo match making does not use your W/L ratio. . .
. . . Now you have to also keep in mind that Elo rates how good you are at winning games. It doesn't look or care about how you are doing that.

Reading your link now. It looks like they're homogenizing the ELO of each side and then applying changes to each individuals ELO for the win or loss, based on the average ELO of each side. However, it doesn't look like they're scaling your ELO change based on your individual contribution to the win or loss. Essentially, you'd have to be enough of a burden or positive force to sway the entire outcome of the match before the ELO change really reflected your individual skill. That really doesn't seem like a great way to do it either. If they raised or lowered your ELO using (homogenized ELO change)*(your match score / average match score) you'd be getting a much better approximation of a player's overall skill.

Edited by no one, 22 February 2014 - 10:52 PM.

[Svidro]

Wow, did it really look like that. Siiigh. Those were the days.

[Appogee]

If you can't stand losing ... don't play competitive games.

By the way, losing - and then thinking about why, and how you could have improved - is a part of getting better. I don't ''like'' losing, but I became a better MechWarrior by playing other MechWarriors, not bots.

In any case, this is a leisure pursuit. If you're not enjoying it because you lose half the time, then you shouldn't be playing it. Play something which gives you some bots to kill, if that will help you feel good about yourself in your leisure time. Life is too short to get frustrated by your hobbies.

Edited by Appogee, 23 February 2014 - 05:25 AM.

[Mr D One]

Appopee, on 23 February 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

If you can't stand losing ... don't play competitive games.

...if that will help you feel good about yourself in your leisure time.

^ Well said.

Now Bishop, your topic you posted has the word hate in it to describe how you feel about mwo. Generally that is a mirror into how the individual feels about themselves. If your topic posted was "how can I love mwo more", then I would not have responded to this self-pitying, attention seeking, topic thread.

You have two accounts, free ones I might add, One has a 1 for 1 kill ratio, and the other is nearly 2 for 1.

Having dropped serious coin into this game, I have had concerns which I have voiced to pgi directly. Having been a pugger like yourself for a long time, then 2 great clans (WOV, F8L) and 1 really sub par one (a***d) I can honestly say I never felt what you have expressed for MWO.

So surrounding yourself with online clan clearly won't work because quite simply, your the problem.

The fact that you have leisure time, internet, and some education puts you at an advantage over 1/3 of the current world. Be happy for the experience. You will be dust in 100 years.

Cut the negative attitude, and woe is me point of view.

If your not happy within yourself, you will not be happy with MWO, or any other game for that matter.

[Colby Boucher]

Even just getting a single lance of friends together can make things immensely more fun, working together for the greater good. f In fact, I love lance play in particular - makes me feel like part of a special ops team. flank around, split up the enemy forces, go to work.

[Levon K]

Meh, I have to agree. Losses suck right now. There needs to be more reward for toughing out match after match, win or lose.

Example: After every 10 matches with a minimum match score of 100, receive a random prize of C-Bill + GXP, or perhaps a piece of equipment?

(Light mechs may need a bit more love, eg. in conquest mode, match score should increase for cap points claimed)

[DAYLEET]

Bishop113, on 22 February 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

when I login and lose two matches in a row I instantly alt+f4 the game, I refuse to play a game in which I am having such a bad time so consistently.

to me this translates to having fun half the time I play this game, the other half is the worst thing ever!

Emo much? It's hard to find any sympathy for anyone who act like a spoiled kid but ill try.

Don't look for others or advice on having fun, figure it out yourself and youll be happy for the rest of your life. Maybe mwo isnt the game for you, nothing wrong with that. I find mwo incredibly frustrating at times and then very fun, i can live with that. You probably come from games where dexterity/skills matters and you had those skills and then found mwo where skills does not matter, i found that hard to swallow at first too but giant mechs are fun, just target and shoot the red spot, voila!