136 replies to this topic

[Raggedyman]

Sephlock, on 01 March 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

PUPPIES!!!

*ahem*

nah, not really. Stomps were kind of fun but I'd rather something balanced as it makes for a better experience. From what was in NGNG they are bringing in weight balance as well, so we should see some good diversity as well as more evenly matched games (especially with ELO factored in). Not claiming that it'll be perfect but it should improve things.

[Sephlock]

Raggedyman, on 16 March 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

PUPPIES!!! *ahem* nah, not really. Stomps were kind of fun but I'd rather something balanced as it makes for a better experience. From what was in NGNG they are bringing in weight balance as well, so we should see some good diversity as well as more evenly matched games (especially with ELO factored in). Not claiming that it'll be perfect but it should improve things.

[BOWMANGR]

Sad about 3-3-3-3 ? NO! It is sorely needed. Tired of Assault/Heavy one-click skill-less alpha "vets" out there.

[pbiggz]

3-3-3-3 is a bit boring, but boring is better than highlanders. I think there should be more emphasis on mediums, but lets wait and see what the future holds.

[Gremlich Johns]

How about:

four 300-1200 ton matches, randomly generated, players each select a mech from each class to be in the drop ship.

So, if, say, a 700 ton drop is generated, the drop matcher will generate the mech mix for each side and drop 12 players with 12 mechs with as close to 700 tons as possible for a total 1400 ton match. In the NBT planetary league days, the drop system would generate the tonnage limits for a given drop and the faction leader would determine the mech mix for that drop based on his available pilots and mechs.

[Clownwarlord]

BOWMANGR, on 17 March 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

Sad about 3-3-3-3 ? NO! It is sorely needed. Tired of Assault/Heavy one-click skill-less alpha "vets" out there.

You mean lrm boats?

[BOWMANGR]

clownwarlord, on 17 March 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

You mean lrm boats?

Αν LRM boat is a fire support mech with a very specific role that needs tactical positioning and mech support as it cannot protect itself in close range. A skill-less alpha strike build is exactly what you know that I mean but chose to ignore {i guess you like to play with high alpha cheese yourself?}.
A one-click high damage pinpoint accuracy attack, usually combined with jumpjeting behind hills to avoid damage. This is sucking the fun out of the game, it is making the battles look ridiculous, rewards an absolute minimum skill set of piloting and shooting and is generally used by those who either don't know how to play the game or that want to just win no matter what even if that means abusing game mechanics hurting the gameplay in the process.

I don't expect from either of those player groups to respect the game.

I fully expect them to come here and whine about PGI changing their lazy-@$$ status quo though...

[Malcolm Reynolds]

So lets see. PGI cut the c-bill income so people can experience more mechs and now they are doing 3/3/3/3 so you best pick a weight class and play it. They obviously don't want people to buy mechs outside of the class they are playing. They really don't like people paying them money do they. there actions say they don't at least.

[Jon Gotham]

Macksheen, on 01 March 2014 - 09:04 PM, said:

I do follow the topic, and I don't see that as a problem.

Many do.
X4 DDC is gaming the system, as is x4 AC40 as is x4 Twin gauss as is x4 LRM boats.......

It's being put in place to stop exploitative and cheap lance comps. It might also help out the poor medium mechs, who currently are being squashed to a paste under all the heavy and assault boaters.

[Davers]

Technoviking, on 04 March 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

I think Weight x ELO inside of a weight limit of 800 is the way to go... but hard to calculate. 3-3-3-3 is... uh... beta?

Problem is more tonnage does not always equal better mech. Thats wht it would be too easy to 'game' a tonnage system.

Bagheera, on 04 March 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

How does 3/3/3/3 address the issue of L1 mechs with standard structures and SHS being matched against L2 mechs with endosteel and DHS (+FF in the case of some builds)?

It doesn't. The game assumes that people will have to pay for upgrades, at least DHS, on most builds. It's a tax and a grind, and thats what the F2P model uses to incentivize people to purchase Hero/Champion mechs and premium time.

knightsljx, on 10 March 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

3-3-3-3 is just overengineering a solution to a simple problem.

I don't care if the enemy team has 12 assaults, IF MY TEAM has 12 assaults as well.

The problem was tonnage balancing. The tonnage difference between 2 teams should not vary by more than 20 tons IMO.

3-3-3-3 will just decrease tactics available in the game. playing 12 heavies and 6 lights with 6 assaults require very different tactics.

Tonnage is not a good metric to balance with in MW:O. How do we know that 3/3/3/3 decreases tactics? You would think with less slow mechs on the field there would be MORE tactical options.

pbiggz, on 17 March 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

3-3-3-3 is a bit boring, but boring is better than highlanders. I think there should be more emphasis on mediums, but lets wait and see what the future holds.

It's not even in game yet, and already you find it boring? Any other insights from the future you want to share with us?

[Durant Carlyle]

I think the 3/3/3/3 limitation will be a positive change for the game, just like the 2/2/2/2 limit was for 8v8 play.

Though, to be honest, I'd rather have it at 3/4/3/2. But they did say it could be tuned, so it may end up at that anyway.

[Sephlock]

Durant Carlyle, on 01 April 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

I think the 3/3/3/3 limitation will be a positive change for the game, just like the 2/2/2/2 limit was for 8v8 play.

Though, to be honest, I'd rather have it at 3/4/3/2. But they did say it could be tuned, so it may end up at that anyway.

I see that leading to LoL-style acrimony when the 2 slots are taken up by trial Awesomes.

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

As i stated in another thread: 4/4/4/4 for IS vs. 5/5/5 for CLAN. <---- This is by far the best solution IMO.

[Jon Gotham]

If you have 4 assault and 4 heavy in a game, the 4 mediums might as well power down. We need less heavies and assaults in games. Below is what I noted over a 48 hour period:
L=2 M=0 H=6 A=4
L=1 M=0 H=8 A=3
L=0 M=3 H=6 A=3
L=1 M=3 H=5 A=3
L=0 M=2 H=4 A=6
L=2 M=2 H=2 A=6
L=0 M=1 H=7 A=4
L=3 M=5 H=2 A=2
L=5 M=3 H=2 A=2
L=1 M=3 H=3 A=5
L=1 M=5 H=1 A=5
L=3 M=1 H=5 A=3
L=3 M=2 H=5 A=2
L=1 M=1 H=4 A=6
L=1 M=1 H=3 A=7
L=1 M=3 H=3 A=5
L=2 M=3 H=5 A=2
L=1 M=2 H=0 A=9
L=3 M=2 H=3 A=4
L=0 M=2 H=4 A=6
L=1 M=4 H=1 A=6
L=2 M=4 H=4 A=2
L=2 M=6 H=0 A=4
L=4 M=4 H=0 A=4
L=1 M=3 H=5 A=3
L=4 M=2 H=2 A=4
L=3 M=0 H=5 A=4
L=2 M=3 H=2 A=5
L=4 M=4 H=3 A=1
L=1 M=1 H=8 A=2
L=2 M=3 H=3 A=4
L=1 M=2 H=7 A=2
L=3 M=2 H=5 A=2
L=3 M=3 H=3 A=3
L=1 M=2 H=3 A=6
L=2 M=4 H=3 A=3
L=4 M=2 H=4 A=2
L=4 M=1 H=5 A=2
L=1 M=1 H=8 A=2
L=0 M=3 H=6 A=3
L=2 M=1 H=5 A=4
L=3 M=3 H=2 A=4
L=0 M=0 H=7 A=5
L=3 M=3 H=5 A=1
L=1 M=2 H=6 A=3


Light mechs=85
Medium mechs=107
Heavy mechs=178
Assault mechs=169

Just LOOK at many of those games. Lights and mediums were put in to be cannon fodder. Unacceptable.

[Bobzilla]

I don't see the problem with this, sorry just can't see the downside other than the times of day when it seems all the builds are the meta may have longer que times for heavies and maybe assaults. I don't think it will completely fix those matches where one side is completly stomped, that's more of a random/elo/premade problem.

But no matter what, this system eleminates the larger discrepancies in drops, the outlier matches.

[Malcolm Reynolds]

ITS NOT WHAT YOU DRIVE ITS HOW YOU DRIVE IT. Couple things. One 4 DDC or 4 AC40 or missile boats usually aren't piloted by ACES and almost always separate but even if they don't lights are hard to hit moving at 150+ for all of them. second if I was a Base commander My force would be set up for the task I need them to do not what seems fair. If I need them to capture the multiple points fast, lights all the way. If I needed them to kick in peoples teeth then I would not have a sing medium in the bunch. so this 3/3/3/3 is unrealistic if you want to make things fair then everyone who dies with doing less then 100 damage for 3 games strait gets put in a rookie category till they learn to play. That's what hinders my team not the enemy being in an assault against my jennet or cataphract. Case in point the other team had More assaults and more lights. they should have been able to run circles around us and hit us hard but we with 1 assault 4 heavy's and 5 mediums(one was a DC) and 1 light pounded them down like a hammer. Why because only one of them did over 200 damage. And no we weren't rocking ac40 we don't play cheese.

Edited by Kitsune Kaji, 02 April 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[MisterPlanetarian]

A T-34 vs Leopard 2A6 is still bullshit no matter the driver.

[Pygar]

Nope, not at all sad...and have been making sure I have at least one viable choice per weight class that I can fly to make sure I can fit into whatever "slot" or "role" my team needs.

On the other hand- pilots that only play one mech or one mech class, and would rather QQ to high heaven on the forums about having to fly something else instead of using the time to learn other mechs? That makes me kind of sad.

Edited by Pygar, 02 April 2014 - 12:36 PM.

[Pygar]

Durant Carlyle, on 01 April 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

I think the 3/3/3/3 limitation will be a positive change for the game, just like the 2/2/2/2 limit was for 8v8 play.

Though, to be honest, I'd rather have it at 3/4/3/2. But they did say it could be tuned, so it may end up at that anyway.

Yes! I think maybe even 3L/5M/2H/1A would be best, to fit in with storyline cannon.

[oldradagast]

The problem is that the game simply doesn't reward playing lighter mechs (lights and mediums.)

1) Damage is all that really matters. Okay, we got some bonuses for UAV's and such, but when it comes down to it, damage is king, and heavier mechs deal more damage.

2) 2 out of 3 game modes are Skirmish: With the addition of the base defense turrets, Assault is really just Skirmish with a smaller map because you have to avoid the enemy turret area unless you want to be beat up by the turrets. I think I can recall 1 game since the turrets were added that ended in a base cap, which is silly. Since light mechs in particular depend upon capping, having 2 out of 3 modes negate that ability makes them rather weak.

3) Damage is fun: Even without base turrets and with more bonuses aside from doing lots of damage, combat is the point of the game. Even if somebody's "role" is to stand in a square for a minute, that doesn't mean it is fun. So, people go back to the big mechs to have fun fighting enemies.

4) Oversized mediums: While mediums are not the only weight class with this problem, the sheer number of mediums that are larger than tougher heavies makes them harder to play well since they are bigger targets with less armor... so people just play heavies instead.

All of these issues work together to reduce the desire to play lights and mediums. Sure, 3-3-3-3 will FORCE people to play lighter mechs but they still might not enjoy it. I will admit that forcing people to play lighter mechs will make it somewhat easier for other lighter mechs to engage in battle, but there are still some issues to be addressed, such as damage being king, lack of game modes or maps that really reward speed and capping, etc.