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Is Anyone Else A Little Sad About 3-3-3-3?

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#81 Ratheron

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:43 AM

The problem all boils down to the fact that any mech can fit any weapon in a hardpoint for that weapon type. if that was fixed then we wouldn't be seeing PPCaida running around the map..or Large Laser raven's.. they just need to make it where there are three classes of each weapon hardpoint large medium and small for all classes of weapons.

Edited by Ratheron, 06 April 2014 - 07:44 AM.


#82 Gyrok

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 12:36 PM

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but competitive drops have been missing highlanders for quite some time...it WAS Victors and Cataphracts, now it is merely Atlas or Banshee and Cataphracts...

Edited by Gyrok, 06 April 2014 - 12:37 PM.


#83 MisterPlanetarian

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 12:51 PM

I could definately see the Banshee supplementing the Highlander on some levels, It has even more DPS and pinpoint damage than the Highlander does and huge shield arms for protection.

#84 HANGMAN1962

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:44 AM

pls look at the"other" side of the coin.
pgi is implamenting private match's that have no limits to what mechs you bring, so if 3333 isn't your thing play the private matchs

as for me well I'm tired of my d-dc atlas being the only "assault" on my team and getting pwnd by 6 to 8 enemy assaults!
after "meny" months of this I'm glad pgi is doing something to fix it.

#85 warner2

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:48 AM

3/3/3/3 is going to get really boring really fast. I don't know, hard to say without playing it but not really something I'm looking forward to.

View PostHANGMAN1962, on 07 April 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

pls look at the"other" side of the coin.
pgi is implamenting private match's that have no limits to what mechs you bring, so if 3333 isn't your thing play the private matchs

as for me well I'm tired of my d-dc atlas being the only "assault" on my team and getting pwnd by 6 to 8 enemy assaults!
after "meny" months of this I'm glad pgi is doing something to fix it.


Isn't that a consequence of lack of proper tonnage match making rather than a need for 3/3/3/3 matching?

#86 Koniving

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:31 AM

Everyone, everyone, please.

My signatures.
On the left, we have the what was told to us about Community Warfare at the Launch Party (seen here) now taken away from us. In essence, what this 3/3/3/3 system has cost us.
On the right, we have the feelings of someone who has put over 800 dollars into this game.. who has seen it go from something incredible to a few steps away from Call of BattleHawkenHalo.

Edited by Koniving, 09 April 2014 - 10:37 AM.


#87 C E Dwyer

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:32 AM

no ..sorry

#88 Koniving

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:38 AM

View PostCathy, on 09 April 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

no ..sorry


Then the Inner Sphere is dead.
There is no inner sphere.
Only clans.
And you can only jump on that band wagon if you spent money until the top weight Clan mechs come out, because as a 50 ton mech you'll never see any action in 3/3/3/3.

#89 MisterPlanetarian

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:17 AM

The problem with not using something like 3-3-3-3 is that people will game the system by using lights and heavies or lights and assaults.

Mediums get shafted by that and I for one am pretty sick of it. For pub play 3 per weightclass is a pretty balanced approach. Play whatever rules in CW or private leagues but keep the PUG drops fair.

Edited by MisterPlanetarian, 10 April 2014 - 10:17 AM.


#90 Kyynele

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:47 PM

I'm starting to think PGI might be doing these bad design choices just so they have stuff to change later on, so that the game doesn't get stagnant while they're taking forever working on the CW.

Edited by Kyynele, 10 April 2014 - 01:47 PM.


#91 Jon Gotham

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:38 PM

View Posttechnopredator, on 10 April 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

I disagree completely with this 3333 idea, it's a cheap and dumb balance idea, a weight class doesn't make a difference in the battle field if you know how to pilot a 'mech, a light can kill many assaults, if the pilot is good at it and the assaults are inexperienced enough, I've seen it ingame, so is about skill with a certain 'mech what it should be considered, that's what the stats are for, specially ELO.


Except my friend, it's not about 1 vs 1. It's when the other team rolls at you with 10 assaults and 2 heavies vs your 8 mediums, 2 lights and 2 assaults......in a skirmish game.
One of those teams have to play like they were genetically created to play mwo.

If 3/3/3/3 don't work it don't I'm concerned people will just meta up and only bring heaviest in every weight class and carry on gaming the system. Tonnage might have been better.


*edit* it's not about what classes you are good at, it';s about people flocking to what they think will give the best edge so they can roflpwn other people, log off and feel good about "owning." It's not about gameplay style or what mechs they like to play-it's about "how can I get the biggest advantage possible that gets me the gratification I want, because everything is about me and my fun. Not fair to other team? I don't care, cry moar lolz."

As for you seeing a good mix, I don't. I'll trot this out again...below is an example of 2 days of matches for me:
L=2 M=0 H=6 A=4
L=1 M=0 H=8 A=3
L=0 M=3 H=6 A=3
L=1 M=3 H=5 A=3
L=0 M=2 H=4 A=6
L=2 M=2 H=2 A=6
L=0 M=1 H=7 A=4
L=3 M=5 H=2 A=2
L=5 M=3 H=2 A=2
L=1 M=3 H=3 A=5
L=1 M=5 H=1 A=5
L=3 M=1 H=5 A=3
L=3 M=2 H=5 A=2
L=1 M=1 H=4 A=6
L=1 M=1 H=3 A=7
L=1 M=3 H=3 A=5
L=2 M=3 H=5 A=2
L=1 M=2 H=0 A=9
L=3 M=2 H=3 A=4
L=0 M=2 H=4 A=6
L=1 M=4 H=1 A=6
L=2 M=4 H=4 A=2
L=2 M=6 H=0 A=4
L=4 M=4 H=0 A=4
L=1 M=3 H=5 A=3
L=4 M=2 H=2 A=4
L=3 M=0 H=5 A=4
L=2 M=3 H=2 A=5
L=4 M=4 H=3 A=1
L=1 M=1 H=8 A=2
L=2 M=3 H=3 A=4
L=1 M=2 H=7 A=2
L=3 M=2 H=5 A=2
L=3 M=3 H=3 A=3
L=1 M=2 H=3 A=6
L=2 M=4 H=3 A=3
L=4 M=2 H=4 A=2
L=4 M=1 H=5 A=2
L=1 M=1 H=8 A=2
L=0 M=3 H=6 A=3
L=2 M=1 H=5 A=4
L=3 M=3 H=2 A=4
L=0 M=0 H=7 A=5
L=3 M=3 H=5 A=1
L=1 M=2 H=6 A=3


Light mechs=85
Medium mechs=107
Heavy mechs=178
Assault mechs=169

Hardly an even mix is it? Look at a lot of those games, the mediums who are not fast enough to dodge or have enough armour to take hits or not enough firepower to take on that many heavies and assaults? All they are in game for is epeen massage to derper assault/heavy pilots.
This is why 3/3/3/3 is being trialled. SOMETHING has to be done.

And the final point, his perception is NOT WRONG, it's different to yours.

Edited by kamiko kross, 10 April 2014 - 02:46 PM.


#92 Flaming oblivion

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:53 PM

This may make the rather messed up MM abit better. Me I started with a heavy i'll quit having been a member of this game a short period when people get what they want and kill long range play with the nerf to every range weapon next is AC's and lrm's again I believe. I wont be a part of such nonsense and people will learn pretty fast what a fatal mistake what they thought they wanted was. That said heavies all the way .

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 10 April 2014 - 02:54 PM.


#93 Jake 451

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:44 PM

Better yet....4 4 4 4 so everyone can build a proper Lance of 4 mechs!

#94 Jon Gotham

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:59 PM

Techno, my lord do you have issues sir......you have not demonstrated anything, at all. I don't think you really understand the issue. Just because YOU have no issue with something, does not mean there is no issue. you seem to have flared off on one hell of a tirade, I wasn't having a go at you y'know. You do seem to be a bit "holier than thou" though which is a shame.
Then you suggest my numbers could be made up? Really? Get a grip on yourself please?

You also make the assumption I do badly in mediums. Or I can't play them properly......really? The only class of mech I do "badly" in (read:3-800 damage) is assaults. they don't fit my style, so I don't play them. I do perfectly fine thank you very much.
You make it a test of skill, which is fine 1 vs 1 but this game is 12 vs 12 and when one side has a massive tonnage advantage that side is most likely to win even with worse players. You of course can overturn that every now and again but it's not the norm.

Again, I'll say it so you can try and digest the FACT:
Just because his and my and anyone else's opinion is different to yours-does not make them wrong. You are not right. you merely have an opinion.

You have no moral nor intellectual high ground to prove or defend, accept that people have opinions different to yours-oh and don't infer people are liars either....it's not very nice forum etiquette.

#95 Craig Steele

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:54 PM

View Posttechnopredator, on 10 April 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:


Yes, part of the game, is use you brain to figure out how to play and what are the bests build/'mechs for your intended role in MWO, as it is also about what classes you're good at, and you think other pilots make better than you at these, and/or you're not good at them and you're victimizing yourself and exposing an inferiority complex, that's why you're trying to get the most edge you can get from developers. Probably you're not playing the medium right, their role isn't to have as much armor, firepower as heavies and assaults and also have the speed of lights, they're not supposed to, that's why they're medium, adapt to that class or search for another you feel comfortable with.






The problem with this view is what other roles are there for lights and mediums?

The game mode is Search and Destroy with arbitary caps for shorter game lengths. There is no other "role" except killing each other.

Thats why people gravitate towards Assaults and Heavies, thats why the battlefield is lopsided with resources (armour and weapons) thats why slug fests are over in 3 minutes for many pilots.

Thats why people complain about game satisfaction.

3/3/3/3 is not a real answer, its a band aid at best, but it has to be better than what we have for the majority of pilots at the moment because it will at the very least, reduce resources on the battlefield.

By the sounds of it though, it won't make a difference because its going to gamed and exploited right back to where we currently are.

We'll be reading the same threads in 3 months that we were 3 months ago.

#96 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:57 PM

If they're going to FORCE a certain number of mech chassis sizes on us...can't they at least steal from canon a little bit?

Ya know...give the Steiner faction drops more assaults...etc?

Maybe that'd at least be interesting...and give people a REASON to choose a faction. Just sayin.'

Granted, then there would be SO MANY screams of unfairness and balance...and some of them might even be valid this time around.
...
...
...
LET'S DO IT.

#97 Harmatia

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:15 PM

View PostOrdellus, on 01 March 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:


And then you'd eventually have 6 atlases on one team again, and the problem didn't get solved....

Please try to follow the topic


PGI removing rearm/repair and knockdowns were mistakes.
  • Repair/rearm made running higher tonnage mechs more expensive. And it should. This would persuade players to consider the risk/reward ratio more closely. No way someone piloting an Atlas should share the same fate as one in a Hunchback when shit goes sideways.
  • Light mechs can slam/bang around with impunity because running 156kph into an Atlas means absolutely nothing.
Medium mechs are supposed to comprise the majority on the battlefield, but in MWO they just don't. Making it costly to run high tonnage mechs and more difficult to pilot fast light mechs could push players to the medium spectrum and balance teams out.

Simple put there is absolutely no balance between mech classes. Forcing balance through matchmaking is only going to reduce match potential and overall user enjoyment. Creating game balance the persuades, rather than dictates, what players chose to take into battle is more effective.

#98 Jon Gotham

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 07:35 AM

View Posttechnopredator, on 10 April 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:


you're the the so typical forum stubborn poster, who thinks his never wrong, just having a different opinion, when demonstrated wrong, tries to deflect attention to the other party and point out how wrong they are, and start the pseudo-criticism:


That's your wrongful opinion, that's what you want and everyone to believe about me, I have intellectual grounds, my experience in the game, moral grounds what would make this game have more random matches based on skill for fair matchmaking. I accept people having opinions, I don't accept them as true just because they say so, specially when I'm pointing out why they're wrong or why there isn't a problem or provided a solution, where you thought it was 1.


Enough now fella. You are digging yourself a bigger hole with each post, stop it now. By retorting to me you are simply echoing what you yourself are doing. You are as guilty as the people you chastise.
Let's keep it on topic and stop denouncing others as "wrong."

View PostHarmatia, on 11 April 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:


PGI removing rearm/repair and knockdowns were mistakes.
  • Repair/rearm made running higher tonnage mechs more expensive. And it should. This would persuade players to consider the risk/reward ratio more closely. No way someone piloting an Atlas should share the same fate as one in a Hunchback when shit goes sideways.
  • Light mechs can slam/bang around with impunity because running 156kph into an Atlas means absolutely nothing.
Medium mechs are supposed to comprise the majority on the battlefield, but in MWO they just don't. Making it costly to run high tonnage mechs and more difficult to pilot fast light mechs could push players to the medium spectrum and balance teams out.


Simple put there is absolutely no balance between mech classes. Forcing balance through matchmaking is only going to reduce match potential and overall user enjoyment. Creating game balance the persuades, rather than dictates, what players chose to take into battle is more effective.


I agree with you there fella, but can you imagine the crying if repair/rearm came back in? People would probably just claim they are being "forced" into smaller mechs by the economy. People want the bigger mechs because they want the advantage of higher firepower in my opinion. I've seen this behaviour in WoW, WoT and recently WarThunder.
I agree that repair/rearm would probably cut the number of big mechs but I think it might drive off quite a few players from the game, the people who only drive the big stuff have gotten used to having the weight advantage now with no drawbacks and I think it's be the same sort of outcry that was seen in the "anti arty" thread on the WoT forums.
The heavy tank players in that hated the fact a class of tank could derp their beloved heavies and screamed it was op and not fair on them. They ignored the fact they could faceroll mediums and lights with ease. that was fair in their eyes, they were after all in a heavy tank! False logic, right? :rolleyes:

Try taking away Jimmy Atlas's ability to spam his DDC away via repair....to balance this game out PGI have to attack and manipulate player psychology and I really doubt they can do that. The top flight mmo devs I'd wager have people that do just that. Examine the impacts on design choices and do certain things to influence whatever meta there is, and thus shape the player base's behaviour to a more manageable level. Makes their job easier to introduce design systems then.
PGI have to go against "I want to own face and feel good about myself" as an attitude-how do they do that?

Because I have no idea on what PGI could do.

#99 ManaValkyrie

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 07:40 AM

View Postkamiko kross, on 12 April 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

PGI have to go against "I want to own face and feel good about myself" as an attitude-how do they do that?

Because I have no idea on what PGI could do.


And why PVP balancing is always a particularly sore point, causes forum QQ, usually from the 'players' most effected by a change because it upsets their status quo, and it continues in a lovely merry go round. Just take a look as Kamiko pointed out at PVP forums for other MMO games.

#100 oldradagast

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:30 AM

Repair and Rearm won't return for more than just forcing people into lighter mechs - it punished individuals for team performance, which is generally a bad way to run a game. Long story short, even if you are an excellent player, if your team has 3 potato players on it and the other team only has 1 such person, you'll probably lose and then be socked with a big repair bill. Nobody wants that, and it takes the fun out of the game - in truth, I'm surprised it has worked in WoT since normally people hate being punished because somebody else's blunder cost the match. Toss on top the ability to lose money per match, losing money when you die from disconnecting, etc. and R&R just doesn't work for the general public. Now, for some sort of "hard-core" mode between 12-man premades, it could be an interesting option, but that's about it, IMHO.

Edited by oldradagast, 12 April 2014 - 09:31 AM.






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