Well the Flintstones opening music sang about having "a gay old time" as a good thing! If that means anything?!
Yeah, I remember those days too. You've got a few more years on me but I remember growing up and not knowing that there was anything wrong with that part of the song. What happened to our society? I caught The Cosby Show on Me TV the other night and realized that there is no way that it would work on today's tv cause there was nothing in that show about sex, no swearing, and none of the other crap that fills our air. My g/f tried to get me to watch 2 Broke Girls one night and I had to turn it off after like the 5th time Cat Dennings said "vagina". TV is sad and we're on the way down.
Wanna know why MWO is unappealing to many people? It's just another twitch-shooter now. PGI doesn't know how to balance anything, this much is obvious. You wanna know how to fix MWO? I don't think it's even possible at this point, not without implementing hardpoint sizes to break some of the crazier builds. We need maps, we need game modes, we need a lot of things. I wanted this game to do really well, I did. I spent a boatload of money trying to support it. Now I just check the forums every now and again, and things just get worse...
DegeneratePervert, on 05 March 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:
Now I just check the forums every now and again, and things just get worse...
Check the game instead, they're actually getting better. Much like if you had warm pancakes and poured near frozen maple syrup on it, You know its going to get better... but that drop is just slowly...slowly dropping... pancakes are getting cold...
DegeneratePervert, on 05 March 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:
Wanna know why MWO is unappealing to many people? It's just another twitch-shooter now. PGI doesn't know how to balance anything, this much is obvious. You wanna know how to fix MWO? I don't think it's even possible at this point, not without implementing hardpoint sizes to break some of the crazier builds. We need maps, we need game modes, we need a lot of things. I wanted this game to do really well, I did. I spent a boatload of money trying to support it. Now I just check the forums every now and again, and things just get worse...
The game is indeed getting better. THough if your looking for a non twitch shooter I dont think your going to find it. That is just the way of gaming and shooters in general.
Check the game instead, they're actually getting better. Much like if you had warm pancakes and poured near frozen maple syrup on it, You know its going to get better... but that drop is just slowly...slowly dropping... pancakes are getting cold...
I guess I'll boot it up tonight and see what's up, then.
Varent, on 05 March 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:
The game is indeed getting better. THough if your looking for a non twitch shooter I dont think your going to find it. That is just the way of gaming and shooters in general.
This game was advertised as a "thinking-persons shooter" in the beginning, it would seem they abandoned that. Why strap us into mechs that seem like they can take a hit if they can't really? Twitch is boring... if I wanted twitch, I'd go play Hawken.
Edited by DegeneratePervert, 05 March 2014 - 12:46 PM.
DegeneratePervert, on 05 March 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:
I guess I'll boot it up tonight and see what's up, then.
This game was advertised as a "thinking-persons shooter" in the beginning, it would seem they abandoned that. Why strap us into mechs that seem like they can take a hit if they can't really? Twitch is boring... if I wanted twitch, I'd go play Hawken.
Im... not sure what game your playing. I tend to take multiple multiple multiple hits before going down. I also torso twist and play smark and work to avoid damage. When I die I was either outplayed or simply failed as a pilot to do my job.
Most engagements take terrain heavily into account, relay on flanking maneuvers and if your playing a heavier mech require alot of planning ahead.
How is that not a thinking mans shooter? Do you think a thinking mans shooter is not also a twitch shooter?
The JJ nerf forces assaults to actually pilot their mechs in order to line up shots, rather than just mashing down a single button. How is that moving AWAY from a "thinking man's shooter"?
As long as this game maintains standard FPS mechanics, it'll be little more than a twitch shooter.
IE; you shoot a mech in the tiniest part of its foot, but it causes damage to the leg. You barely nick the torso with an autocannon round at an extreme angle, you deal full damage. It's pretty much the same silliness that goes on in an FPS when you kill someone by shooting them in the foot a few times because it's all you can see.
You could devolve WoT and Warthunder into the same state if you were to strip the ballistics model/armor system and just give the tanks nothing but a health pool that gets diminished every time a shot hits no matter the angle or location.
I think MWO didn't go far enough in its depth with the damage model and the result is that the game is oversimplified and dumbed down. Or they just weren't capable/cry engine is incapable of a more advanced system than what they have.
As long as this game maintains standard FPS mechanics, it'll be little more than a twitch shooter.
IE; you shoot a mech in the tiniest part of its foot, but it causes damage to the leg. You barely nick the torso with an autocannon round at an extreme angle, you deal full damage. It's pretty much the same silliness that goes on in an FPS when you kill someone by shooting them in the foot a few times because it's all you can see.
You could devolve WoT and Warthunder into the same state if you were to strip the ballistics model/armor system and just give the tanks nothing but a health pool that gets diminished every time a shot hits no matter the angle or location.
I think MWO didn't go far enough in its depth with the damage model and the result is that the game is oversimplified and dumbed down. Or they just weren't capable/cry engine is incapable of a more advanced system than what they have.
.... thats been part of every mw game... thats how hit detection works I mean.... nvm... just... right..... k...
.... thats been part of every mw game... thats how hit detection works I mean.... nvm... just... right..... k...
My point is that it's a dated, simple system in a market filled with games that are much more in-depth and advanced. If it ever was intended to be more than a simple shooter, a "thinking man's" game like someone said, then it needed to evolve, not stay stuck in 1997.
I realize some people are against advancement, though.
My point is that it's a dated, simple system in a market filled with games that are much more in-depth and advanced. If it ever was intended to be more than a simple shooter, a "thinking man's" game like someone said, then it needed to evolve, not stay stuck in 1997.
I realize some people are against advancement, though.
I just think your two focused on one thing. I fail to see what hit box and hit detection have to do in regards to a game being a thinking mans shooter.
Highlanders, victors and 3Ds...Jumpjets, PPCs and autocanons. you may as well remove every other weapon and chassis from the game..this is where your game is going..enjoy
And you dont seem willing to fix it...MW4 anyone?
You guys act like thats all these guys do and that isn't in fact correct by any means. These same guys are just as deadly using lasers and non jumping mechs.
I also love the comments of how there is "no skill involved" with sniping while using JJs and nothing could be farther from the truth. Have you really tried it? It's far easier to stay planted on the ground and shoot than try it while airborne. First there is the JJ shake - clearly seen in the video BTW. There is no way you can take a shot while your actively on the JJs. In order to shoot you have to let off the jets (which starts you falling), aim your weapons taking into account lead, your own momentum (it affects the shot BTW), the distance to the target, and then take the shot in the split second you can. Not everyone can do it - and those who can are just as deadly when not using mechs with jump jets.
As for PPCs and ACs - I am willing to put money down that there are more people running lasers as there are PPCs - probably more because PPC equipped mechs are at an extreme disadvantage once ranges close and the ERPPC is rediculously nerfed into the ground. I have some of my best scores in laser equipped mechs BTW.
Karl Streiger, on 03 March 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:
some say its the poptarter - other says its the light mech with an array of MLAS...
and i still have the feeling that nerfing anything didn't do any good - it just changes the meta from "optimum variant A" to "optimum variant B"
Ok - maybe its because I'm at the very end of the ELO Rating - but 50% of my games are funny - challenging and my Highlander goes down in flames ... oh wait they want to nerf my Highlander? For what? I don't pop tart....i only use the JJs for better mobility in heavy terrain and to DFA...(that does little to no damage)
so to cry for a nerf of the Highlander will hit me right?
So why are pop tarter so successfull?
pinpoint weapons
short woe
to effective jump jets
Your both right and wrong. I agree, they nerf one thing and people will find something else that works.
When people play games online they find what works for them. When enough people find the same thing someone will inevitably call it a "Meta". When other people get beat down by mechs using this "meta" that they either don't feel comfortable with or can't do they scream fowl and try to get the devs to nerf it. Once it is nerfed people find the next thing that works. Rinse and repeat. If someone doesn't think it's fun or don't want to play that way - good for them - that's their right. But if they think that everyone should want to play like they do and look down on people who play differently.... that's just arogant. Quit trying to make everyone play the game the way YOU want to play it. Nothing is stopping you from playing in any style you want and yes they all still work just fine - at least they work for most of the people I know just fine.
No lets talk about this "pin point damage" The only weapons that have pin point damage are lasers. They hit right where they are pointed. If more than one is used they will all hit the same spot without using any skill to place that shot on target against a moving target because there is no travel time to adjust for. If they aren't hitting the same spot it's because you couldn't hold them on target because you moved or the target moved. This is why lasers have a beam duration. They aren't used on jumpers much because of the duration but that doesn't mean they are ineffective. Lasers are easily the best sniper weapon in the game because they are far easier to use and target specific locations with. Try taking out an Atlas head with ACs or PPCs then go try some lasers.
PPCs and autocannons have travel times and right now there aren't any with the same travel time. Therefore the chances of someone using for instance PPCs and AC 5 or AC 10 landing all of their weapons on the same point of a moving taget are very slim - bordering on impossible. Convergence doesn't work if the cross hairs are not on the target and because of lead - you don't get many of those shots at the higher ELOs. Now if by "pin point" you mean that all of the weapons damage is registered immediately on the point of contact - well yes that does happen and it should happen. Should most of the damage from a PPC go to the part hit and part of it be "splash" damage to an adjacent part of the mech - maybe - but so far splash damage hasn't worked out very well for other weapons and I think you would see far more head shots if this were done.
In the end I'd say that some people will never be happy. Nerfing things hasn't made these people happy yet so why keep doing it. Unless you make everyone play the same exact way they want to play they will never be happy.
What am I supposed to see? I thought there would be some exploit or am I supposed to want to use Jumpjets now? Because I don't. Generally when some player starts jumping in the air for no reason I kill them pretty quickly. Don't you? If I use jump jets it's to gain a maneuver advantage not to just be a pot shot.
Oh well, they removed the best weapons for shooting jump jetters. Gauss Rifles. And the burn duration for LLAS is too long. On a side note players who didn't like poptarts demanded that the Gauss Rifle be nerfed, but that was the best anti poptart weapon. Much better for killng them than what poptarts did with it.
Anyway, if that team had tried that against my old Unit they'd be dead meat. Pansies.
Look, if you really hate the jump-jet and shoot thing petition PGI to block firing weapons while airborne. Not that they would do it, but at least it would confront your issue head-on.
LocationStomping around in a giant robot, of course.
Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:54 PM
Abivard, on 03 March 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:
Fix lasers.
Fix LRM's
FIX SRM's
Do not nerf PPC's
do not nerf Ballistics
You're right. We should make all weapons full damage to a single location.
What, you don't want Core-A-Warrior Online? Cause when LRMs did it, we screamed LURMGEDDON and changed the weapon to encourage more spread! When lasers were put in, it was made "burn" mechanics so they WOULDN'T deliver full damage to a single location.
Pinpoint, frontloaded damage massively reduces TTK, and that's why the meta strongly favors ballistic (+ PPC to take advantage of what cooling the DHS can spare) weaponry and tactics that minimize exposure to same.
That's the true problem. More than poptarting or jumpjets or even flipping ghost heat, and I loathe ghost heat.
No, they won't. We've proved that in the past. Once their cashflow begins to dwindle, they start a new advertising campaign....offer free premium time...whatever. Gotta draw in the next crop of crosseyed, drooling idiots to spend a little cash on a bobblehead.
The focus, at least business-wise, isn't on the established players....most of us don't spend more than $15 a month, just to buy premium time. We're not cash cows for them....which is why they ignore us.
Maybe if they had a forum where you could PAY to have your ideas responded to.....hey, I bet they'd jump all over that one.
ROFLMAO, you give Piranha any money? The last thing I spent money on was Project Phoenix and then after they nerfed Gauss + Ghost heat, I got a refund. This game is OK to play for free, but in its current state, I will not support it one bit. Meanwhile, for Path of Exile, I just dropped $280 on them for a Champions pack.
Good thing Piranha is not focusing on their core gamers, its doing wonders for them financially, absolutely wonders.
You're right. We should make all weapons full damage to a single location.
What, you don't want Core-A-Warrior Online? Cause when LRMs did it, we screamed LURMGEDDON and changed the weapon to encourage more spread! When lasers were put in, it was made "burn" mechanics so they WOULDN'T deliver full damage to a single location.
Pinpoint, frontloaded damage massively reduces TTK, and that's why the meta strongly favors ballistic (+ PPC to take advantage of what cooling the DHS can spare) weaponry and tactics that minimize exposure to same.
That's the true problem. More than poptarting or jumpjets or even flipping ghost heat, and I loathe ghost heat.
you know, some of us never complained and have been simply sitting here moving from one meta to the next wondering when you people will realize its just going to be one meta everyone uses. That is the stages of shooters. There is always one dominant meta. Cryng for balance will only change the meta and nerf most things overall. The key is not nerfing or buffing, but instead diversifying and giving weapons clear advantages in different scenarios so that every weapon is useful when used properly.
As long as this game maintains standard FPS mechanics, it'll be little more than a twitch shooter.
IE; you shoot a mech in the tiniest part of its foot, but it causes damage to the leg. You barely nick the torso with an autocannon round at an extreme angle, you deal full damage. It's pretty much the same silliness that goes on in an FPS when you kill someone by shooting them in the foot a few times because it's all you can see.
Man, wouldn't that be something. Land a shot at a bad angle and it just deflects off the armor. I'd play it.
2
Sug, on 05 March 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:
