79 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

PhoenixFire55, on 05 March 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

No. Even if you don't point at mech you point at smth, and both your PPCs and ACs will go there. So when target crosses their flight path they converge.

I don't think so. My experience has been that weapons converge at the range of the object your reticle is on. Just last night i fired 2 PPCs (1 in each arm) and an AC10 at a moving target, so I had to lead putting my reticle on the terrain behind him. One of the PPCs hit, the other was way wide. I couldn't tell if the AC did but that's beside the point. Obviously on an HGN or VTR when the PPCs are right next to each other, convergence doesn't matter.

If they could introduce a little uncertainty to this that would go along way. Each PPC/AC will do pinpoint damage, but it could be at a different location. Sounds like this would be real tough to implement though. This would also make AC20s and Gauss rifles a solid decision.

[Ghogiel]

PhoenixFire55, on 05 March 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

That longer range where AC10 does more damage start at about 900m, where it does like 3 points of damage, meaning you just waste your ammo. PPC is sniper weapon because it does not require ammo and you can shoot it all day doesn't matter if you only do 1 damage its still worth it.

I am pretty sure the damage falloff for all weapons beyond standard range in MWO is linear. Maximum ranges is triple for ballistics and double for energy.

AC10s should be doing 5 damage at 900m not 3. down to 0 at 1350. While PPCs will already be down to 5 damage at 810m.

Edited by Ghogiel, 05 March 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[Screech]

Put a knock down on ballistics(excluding MGs) while using jump jets.

[Gyrok]

LOL...if anything it is more becoming artillery warrior online...half the PUGs in this game cannot hit the empire state building with a rock standing 4 feet from it...but they can get that puff of red smoke "close enough".

[Corvus Antaka]

Gyrok, on 05 March 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

LOL...if anything it is more becoming artillery warrior online...half the PUGs in this game cannot hit the empire state building with a rock standing 4 feet from it...but they can get that puff of red smoke "close enough".

artys need to stop headshotting people. ive been headshot 7 times by artys in the last month.

ive been headshot once by a player in that same timespan.

headshots have been made so tiny their almost impossible to reliably get anymore, but anyone can get a lucky arty headshot. bit lame imho.

[xXBagheeraXx]

PhoenixFire55, on 04 March 2014 - 01:07 AM, said:

JJ-capable mechs are only dominant because people who complain about them the most actually help them the most.

Brawler mech with SRMs, LBXs and SLs/MLs is always gonna win a close range fight vs same chassis with PPCs/ERLLs/ACs. But it needs to be at that close range. Most people are too afraid to push and instigate a brawl. There are many reasons for it, mostly lack of self-confidence and lack of faith in your team, filled with random people who lack self-confidence themselves. A team of brawlers on comms WILL beat an equally skilled team of snipers on comms 10 times out of 10 provided they can get withing 300m range before taking any significant damage. Now, most maps provide an opportunity to do so, but not all, and not everywhere. In PUG matches without any communication it is FAR easier to focus fire when you got jump-snipers or just sniper builds, you just stay in same spot and shoot whatever comes into line of sight first, while if your team is full of brawlers, its much harder to focus fire as there are pretty much always multiple targets when you are within brawler range.

Jump-sniping is not dominant by default, it is MADE dominant by lack of communication in PUG matches.

I cannot +1 this statment enough...

I poptart every now and then when I want to feel OP...Nothing gets me back in my bralwer atlases faster than getting run over in my Dragon slayer by an lbx weilding DD-C. Bralwers will almost always eat a poptart in a one on one fight provided you can keep your armor up as you close...sneak up on a victor in a fresh atlas and you can pretty much chalk up a free kill...there have even been times Ive gotten ganked by a poptart victor in fairly bad shape, yet a few shots to the AC arm and I get away scott free...My 733C is using an ac20 2 meds and 3 srm6es and im loving It to ribbons..It still kinda fails compared to an atlas, and I quite honestly SUCK in it, but its FUN...its LOADS more fun than humping a rock for 10 minutes every game and only getting to fire when my Jumpjets recharge.

[Glxy Cmdr Jason Tseng]

Squirtbox, on 04 March 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

It would be nice if the heat they generated made an actually impact. Most of the time I don't even notice the 'heat' JJs generate considering you are essentially shooting a flamethrower out of your mechbutt.

Then you are not doing it right. I run spiders quite often and have close to the max JJs you can put on them (8-12) and the heat they generate is usually close to 10-15%. Add that in with the heat of the weapons, engine, map etc and you have something that you have to carefully manage. You can not just bound across the map while firing your head off.

To the OPs point: Even in the days of the Battletech Tabletop game JJ mechs could leap and bound across the maps, taking only a higher movement penalty when it was your turn to fire. The way they incorporated this into MWO is the screen shake that throws off your aim. It lets up after you stop JJetting allowing for more accurate aiming but you also start falling, which from sufficient height, damages your legs, which is how the Devs incorporated the piloting roll after jumping in the TT game.

So I am sorry if I am one of the pilots that you try to hit with your 40point alpha, and I take advantage of your 3.25-5second recycle time to run and jump over you to put 2 MPLs in your back and start the chase.

Pro tip: Backing up will help you keep your back away from me rather than going forward. I'll still get to it but I will spend more time in your firing arc.

[Squirtbox]

Glxy Cmdt Jason Tseng, on 06 March 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

Then you are not doing it right. I run spiders quite often and have close to the max JJs you can put on them (8-12) and the heat they generate is usually close to 10-15%. Add that in with the heat of the weapons, engine, map etc and you have something that you have to carefully manage. You can not just bound across the map while firing your head off.

Yea how about no. I cant remember a single time in all of my matches since CB where I have shut down due to using JJs. This includes SHS land before DHS were in game.

I would say you are not doing it right by having that much wasted tonnage in a spider. My TDK has a better weapon profile than your spiders at that point. Hell a 3M Locust has more firepower.

[Glxy Cmdr Jason Tseng]

Squirtbox, on 06 March 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

Yea how about no. I cant remember a single time in all of my matches since CB where I have shut down due to using JJs. This includes SHS land before DHS were in game.

Did I say I shut down? Or that it was something the pilot has to manage? And with the Spider 5-V which only has 2 energy hard points, EVERYTHING is going to have a higher DPS than it, but it will be more maneuverable than the TDK and only 2kph slower. So your point = moot.

Edited by Glxy Cmdt Jason Tseng, 06 March 2014 - 02:16 PM.

[Squirtbox]

Glxy Cmdt Jason Tseng, on 06 March 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Did I say I shut down? Or that it was something the pilot has to manage? And with the Spider 5-V which only has 2 energy hard points, EVERYTHING is going to have a higher DPS than it, but it will be more maneuverable than the TDK and only 2kph slower. So your point = moot.

You arent really doing much for your team in the 5V but whatever. The fact that you choose to pilot that garbage mech doesnt make my point any less valid that JJs require virtually zero monitoring aside from their charge.
Your response to my initial post includes this nice little bit:

Glxy Cmdt Jason Tseng, on 06 March 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

Then you are not doing it right. I run spiders quite often and have close to the max JJs you can put on them (8-12) and the heat they generate is usually close to 10-15%. Add that in with the heat of the weapons, engine, map etc and you have something that you have to carefully manage. You can not just bound across the map while firing your head off.

How can you then say that you never mentioned JJ heat being something that needs to be managed? I think it should be something to be managed hence why I said I hardly notice it.

[Gyrok]

I would like to say, VTR/HGN with AC20 + 2 ERPPC/PPC is 40 points of pinpoint damage in brawling range, and it makes most atlas pilots pause when they realize their formerly pristine mech has a RT that is now orange. Second time it's armorless and dark orange/red...let me pop a 3rd time and its gone. If you are running 2xUAC5 or 2xLBX10 with loads of ammo...now you are down to 1 LL or PPC and I can deal with that pretty easily.

Many maps allow for that, and a Victor is fast enough to do it and move before that Atlas gets into position again.

I run ERPPCs so closing will not help...yeah...they are warm. However, I have an AC20 if I need to cool off...

Edited by Gyrok, 06 March 2014 - 04:11 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 March 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

I don't think so. My experience has been that weapons converge at the range of the object your reticle is on. Just last night i fired 2 PPCs (1 in each arm) and an AC10 at a moving target, so I had to lead putting my reticle on the terrain behind him. One of the PPCs hit, the other was way wide. I couldn't tell if the AC did but that's beside the point. Obviously on an HGN or VTR when the PPCs are right next to each other, convergence doesn't matter.

If they could introduce a little uncertainty to this that would go along way. Each PPC/AC will do pinpoint damage, but it could be at a different location. Sounds like this would be real tough to implement though. This would also make AC20s and Gauss rifles a solid decision.

Simply unlocking the arm locked reticule would accomplish most of this. speeding up the jumpjet action significantly and boosting their power some more should do the rest.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 06 March 2014 - 05:05 PM.

[Glxy Cmdr Jason Tseng]

Squirtbox, on 06 March 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

How can you then say that you never mentioned JJ heat being something that needs to be managed? I think it should be something to be managed hence why I said I hardly notice it.

I said BOTH times that the heat from it in my Spiders is something that has to be managed. I never said that it wasn't. What I said, and it's in the 2nd quote in your post, that I haven't shut down, just that it IS something that needs to be managed. I have only had this heat in the spiders and one Jenner, but it is something that needs to be managed in those chassis. On my other mechs, I agree that the heat generated is a non-issue.

As For the 733C, I prefer the ac20, 2MPLs, and 2 SRM6s. Not pinpoint damage but staggering the SRMs and MPLs I am able to keep damage on the target, and cut them down fairly quickly.

Edited by Glxy Cmdt Jason Tseng, 06 March 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

lsp, on 04 March 2014 - 12:55 AM, said:

I play non JJ mechs all the time and Don't always "lose". Infact my CTF 4x and ilya both have above a 2.0 kdr. The game is far from unplayable. "Mechs go down in a matter of seconds" you and me must be playing a different game. The only time someone goes down in seconds is if they are shot in the back. Or go solo yolo into a entire lance. Or don't know how to torso twist and just face hug people.

Non-jump capable mechs are fine as long as they're fast and slim or heavy enough to take the pounding and can carry enough weapons to give as good as they get. If you're slow, fat, and weak, you're toast. Then again, the Quickdraw says that having JJs while being kind of fast, fat, tall, wide, and kind of weak doesn't help.

[Daekar]

My experience lately has been pretty miserable. Poptarts have started appearing everywhere, and they're completely messing up the game. I tried it, and it's absolutely the best tactic, bar-none, for any situation where moving to an exposed flank is not yet practical. As your Elo rating rises, you make sure you have a bunch of poptarts on your team or you prepare to lose to them. That isn't OK, that isn't Mechwarrior, and that isn't fun.

I'd rather see jumpjets totally removed from the game than see them continue on as they are.

Edited by Daekar, 11 March 2014 - 08:04 AM.

[KharnZor]

Daekar, on 10 March 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

My experience lately has been pretty miserable. Poptarts have started appearing everywhere, and they're completely messing up the game. I tried it, and it's absolutely the best tactic, bar-none. As your Elo rating rises, you make sure you have a bunch of poptarts on your team or you prepare to lose to them. That isn't OK, that isn't Mechwarrior, and that isn't fun.

I'd rather see jumpjets totally removed from the game than see them continue on as they are.

Keep up that method of thinking and you'll be in for a rude awakening.

[Daekar]

KharnZor, on 10 March 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

Keep up that method of thinking and you'll be in for a rude awakening.

It's not the ONLY tactic, but it is a major component of a successful strategy. If you don't have it in your inventory of tactical tools, you're at a major disadvantage. I'm not buying any more mechs that don't have JJs because of that.

[KharnZor]

Daekar, on 10 March 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

It's not the ONLY tactic, but it is a major component of a successful strategy. If you don't have it in your inventory of tactical tools, you're at a major disadvantage. I'm not buying any more mechs that don't have JJs because of that.

you might want to go back and edit your post. for accuracy

[Daekar]

KharnZor, on 10 March 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

you might want to go back and edit your post. for accuracy

Done. A small change, and it doesn't change the significance of poptarting, but it IS more accurate.

[Supersmacky]

Funny: the OP has obviously abandoned this topic, yet it continues on under its own momentum