118 replies to this topic

[Helmer]

Chemie, on 04 March 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

Paul, You were right, you took the nerf gun to the HGN...but only the HGN. If the intent was to move everyone over to Victors, then mission accomplished. If the intent was to stop jump sniping, then gg close but sorry.

For HGN, the total height is the same with one JJ but the climb rate is mega-nerfed. I don't understand why the patch notes say that it "scales" but the fact is one JJ still allows you to climb very high...just with HGN it takes soooo long it is hopeless and no more sniping. 2 JJ? Still hopeless. I have not bothered to try 4 JJ cuz 8 tons ain't worth it compared to taking a different chassis.

So now Victor and 3D are untouched and with 1 JJ can pop tart away.

What exactly the was the plan here?

That's assuming this is the "nerf" he was talking about.

Officially this is a fix/tweak for Jump Jets and might not be the HGN nerfs he was referring to.

Does this effect the HGN? Absolutely.


Cheers.

[Charons Little Helper]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 04 March 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

So the question is...why did this hit the HGN so hard, and the Victor is fine and dandy?

They use different JJ classes. As stated in the patch notes - different class JJs are affected more/less.

[Khobai]

Nerfing jjs was dumb they weren't even the problem

Who cares if mechs can jump and shoot at the same time

The problem is when they can jump and shoot you for 30-40 damage in the same spot

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 04 March 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

Nerfing jjs was dumb they weren't even the problem

Who cares if mechs can jump and shoot at the same time

The problem is when they can jump and shoot you for 30-40 damage in the same spot

To be fair, the slope movement thing made mechs with JJs far more desirable than mechs without jets (excluding cases like the Misery). This change should *hopefully* make equipping JJs more of a tradeoff than a direct upgrade (although my Meta Slayer hasn't felt much of a different).

[LegoPirate]

from reddit (posted by jman5)



I'm not sure I completely understand all this but this is how I interpret the values in the itemStats file.
For JJ Class I (Highlanders):

• 
  Cooldown was changed from 1.0 to 0.625. My interpretation of this is a reduction in cooldown refresh rate. (takes longer to refresh)
  
• 
  JJ Duration is increased from 3.75 seconds to 6 seconds. This compensate for other reduced values below.
  
• 
  The instant boost was decreased from 614.29 to 250 (about 40% original value)
  
• 
  Boost_z was reduced from 71.43 to 62. I don't know if this is a max height or a climb rate value.
  
• 
  A new value was added to jumpjets called "turn". On the JJ I it's 0.7. You can probably read that as normal turn rate reduced to 70% effectiveness while jump jetting.

For JJ Class II (Victors)

• 
  Cooldown changed from 1.0 to 0.5.
  
• 
  Turn Speed changed from 1.0 to 0.6. So you can only turn at 60% effectiveness while JJing.
  
• 
  The rest is unchanged

For JJ Class III (All Heavies)

• 
  Cooldown changed from 1.0 to 0.65
  
• 
  Turn rate is at 80% effectiveness compared to normal
  
• 
  rest is unchanged

For JJ Class IV (Mediums)

• 
  Cooldown changed from 1.0 to 0.7
  
• 
  Everything else unchanged except mid-air turn speed is 90% effectiveness compared to normal

For JJ Class V (Lights)

• 
  No Changes
  
• 
  Mid-Air turnspeed is 100% compared to normal turn speed.

I'm unsure how adding more jumpjets changes things except longer jump duration and higher max climb.

so, basically the highlander jumpjets got thrown in the dumpster and no other real changes were made.

[IronChance]

With 1 JJ in my VTR-9K, I can't poptart. With all 6 JJs, I have more air than I need. I'll have to play around with it to find the right number for me. Seems like that's a good thing.

The jump turn is noticeably diminished.

The JJ recharge is the most noticeable nerf to me. It seems like I have to wait twice as long as before. This means I can poptart only half as much. Probably a good thing. I need to be more choosy about when I do it anyway.

[Willard Phule]

IronChance, on 04 March 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

With 1 JJ in my VTR-9K, I can't poptart. With all 6 JJs, I have more air than I need. I'll have to play around with it to find the right number for me. Seems like that's a good thing.

The jump turn is noticeably diminished.

The JJ recharge is the most noticeable nerf to me. It seems like I have to wait twice as long as before. This means I can poptart only half as much. Probably a good thing. I need to be more choosy about when I do it anyway.

Jump turns in Heavies (Cataphract 3-D) and Mediums (both Shadowhawk and Griffin) completely unnoticed....granted, both of mine have max JJs. So, I'm good. I don't poptart, though, so I don't much care.

The HGNs, however, fall victim to 4 SSRM2s and a LL pretty darn quick, though. Leg 'em and they're beat.

[Damocles69]

this is what i have figured out

highlanders need 3-4 jjs to be effective. (mainly 3)

victors need 2

all other mechs unchanged

what to take away- the victor is the real winner. with 1 ton jjs a 2 ton investment to poptart is negligible
the most efficient highlander builds will now be 3 jjs 2 PPCs and either a Gauss or AC20. unless you are bringing a super brawly deck and want the AC 20, there is literally no reason to take a highlander over a CTF-3D

result- you will see comp teams made up mostly of victors, CTF-3Ds, and stalker fs or miserys

conclusion- The king is dead. Long live the king

Edited by Damocles69, 04 March 2014 - 04:58 PM.

[Amsro]

I find it funny how the biggest nerf is to the jump twist, which is most beneficial to Brawlers.

Barely effecting poptarting at all. I think the target was missed once again.

[FupDup]

Amsro, on 04 March 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

I find it funny how the biggest nerf is to the jump twist, which is most beneficial to Brawlers.

Barely effecting poptarting at all. I think the target was missed once again.

Paul's nerf vulcan isn't particularly accurate.

[Damocles69]

funny enough the misery and the dragon slayer just became the best 2 mechs in the game.... so you pay-to-win guys have fun with that lol

[Wispsy]

IronChance, on 04 March 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

With 1 JJ in my VTR-9K, I can't poptart. With all 6 JJs, I have more air than I need. I'll have to play around with it to find the right number for me. Seems like that's a good thing.

The jump turn is noticeably diminished.

The JJ recharge is the most noticeable nerf to me. It seems like I have to wait twice as long as before. This means I can poptart only half as much. Probably a good thing. I need to be more choosy about when I do it anyway.

Why would you put 1 in the 9K. Just use 6 and go up to max height and back moving so fast nobody really hits you.

[East Indy]

Quote

What exactly the was the plan here?

You'll have to ask Paul, but the effect is that players desperate for an advantage run to lighter 'Mechs — not because they're better, but because they're less nerfed.

[IronChance]

Wispsy, on 04 March 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

Why would you put 1 in the 9K. Just use 6 and go up to max height and back moving so fast nobody really hits you.

I wouldn't. I was testing the limits of the new JJ changes. I've been using max JJs for a while now, but I might actually start cutting some back out. I've been noticing that although I'm getting CT'd less by jumping more, I'm also taking more overall damage by being exposed longer, so I've been thinking of scaling back down to try to find a sweet spot. We'll see.

[Foxfire]

IMO, every dynamic of JJ's should be effected by how many you have.. from how high you can climb to how afar you can jump to how fast you climb to how fast you recharge.

There really needs to be a true distinction between slapping 1 JJ and maxing them out.

[Chemie]

LegoPirate, on 04 March 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

from reddit (posted by jman5)

I'm unsure how adding more jumpjets changes things except longer jump duration and higher max climb.


so, basically the highlander jumpjets got thrown in the dumpster and no other real changes were made.

This. The patch notes said JJ are now linear to the number but adding more JJ really makes no difference. It just killed HGN but does not solve the high alpha pin point meta and now DS and 3D rule. Dumb.

[Foxfire]

Chemie, on 04 March 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

This. The patch notes said JJ are now linear to the number but adding more JJ really makes no difference. It just killed HGN but does not solve the high alpha pin point meta and now DS and 3D rule. Dumb.

I agree with this.. but JJ's should be exponential, not linear, in what they provide in general.

[TygerLily]

Flying Blind, on 04 March 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

That's fine, 3D is fragile so if you can get a brawler on close you can eat them up. We don't want poptarting to go away completely just to weaken it to the point there are effective counter strategies that don't involve jumping sniping better

...

This change is good.

YES! I've loudly clamored against poptarting for the most part but I've never wanted it gone, just balanced. I'm glad that the mediums aren't suffering to much via the JJ nerf. It would make more sense for them to be the poptart kings.

[El Bandito]

Damocles69, on 04 March 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

funny enough the misery and the dragon slayer just became the best 2 mechs in the game.... so you pay-to-win guys have fun with that lol

DS and Misery are not pay to win. They are more like pay to get more C-Bills.

Ilya and Ember are more of a pay to win.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 March 2014 - 06:21 PM.

[Foxfire]

El Bandito, on 04 March 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

DS and Misery are not pay to win. They are more like pay to get more C-Bills.

Ilya and Ember are more of a pay to win.

At least, with the Illy, you can use a 4x to get similar results. Not as good with the distribution of the ballistic points of the Illy but you can at least get close to what the Illy can do.