343 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

Edit: wrong thread

Edited Edit
Before I put him on ignore - he had yet to back anything up with any actual sources.....
And nothing I saw quoted involved him providing a source...

Woulda thought he would have eventually.
/Shrug

Edited by Shar Wolf, 16 March 2014 - 07:37 PM.

[Tesunie]

Shar Wolf, on 16 March 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

Edit: wrong thread

Oh. You edited before I could see it! I wanted to see your blunder!

[Alaskan Nobody]

Tesunie, on 16 March 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

Oh. You edited before I could see it! I wanted to see your blunder!

Check the "Last Post Wins"

Not sure how it wound up posting here, as I was (initially) quoting someone from that thread.
(lost the quote when I transferred it though)

[Vincent V. Kerensky]

I have checked some of the stuff he has written and some of it is correct... Some of it however is pure speculation and flawed.

Posting a reply there now.

[Tesunie]

Vincent V Kerensky, on 16 March 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

I have checked some of the stuff he has written and some of it is correct... Some of it however is pure speculation and flawed.

Posting a reply there now.

That was the "problem" here. Some of it was correct, and we agreed. Some (most) of it was conjecture and speculation, mixed in with the correct lore, which tainted the canon facts and twisted them. He gave you "just enough" to prove himself "right", but stop right at the points that would have "proved him wrong", which normally happened a sentence or two after his quoted passage...

[Vincent V. Kerensky]

Oh in my reply to that topic I have given him credit where he is correct, corrected him where he is wrong and called him on what I see as pure speculation and what seems to be "what if" scenarios.

Edited by Vincent V Kerensky, 16 March 2014 - 09:38 PM.

[KuroNyra]

Finished the first and second both.
Currently reading the third. Thanks again Jaroth.


learning more and more at each page.
And yup, I think when the clan will come. I'll be part of the Wolf Warden's. :3

[CyclonerM]

KuroNyra, on 16 March 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

And yup, I think when the clan will come. I'll be part of the Wolf Warden's. :3

We would be happy to have you among our cadets if you decide to join a Wolf Clan unit

Sure, they might be too good guys, but there are only a few other Clans i would join

[Gyrok]

*sigh* Craig...bah...let the Jade Falcons that he "does not" support have him...

[Uncle Totty]

Gyrok, on 17 March 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

*sigh* Craig...bah...let the Jade Falcons that he "does not" support have him...

Maybe he does not "support" Jade Falcon, because he is Jade Falcon.

[Gyrok]

I think there is a great deal of truth in your supposition...

[_Comrade_]

For the most part the wolves played it smart but i think their trial of refusal with jade falcon was foolish, it crippled the wolf and sent Phelen Kell in exile with most of the warden's turning clan wolf into a crusader faction under Vlad Ward. So good for the most part but Ulric Kerensky never should of over extended his toumen. To tell you the truth the only clan that was quite dumb was steel viper. For getting annihilated in the war they started

Edited by Grimwill, 20 April 2014 - 12:39 AM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Grimwill, on 20 April 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

i think their trial of refusal with jade falcon was foolish

It was - but it was also the better of two options.
(second was letting the crusaders slowly absorb/wipe out clan wolf)

[A banana in the tailpipe]

[Lucian Nostra]

Call me late to the party but calling Clan Wolf the 'smart guys' is a bit tough for me to swallow. What starts off as good hindsight and strong leadership in appearance turns into borderline Mary Sue-ism as the Clan stories unfold.

Clan Wolf simply can not be beat, biggest invasion corridor and the captured planets just love these guys, only clan to fully succeed on Tukayyid because masterful tacticians (while the other clans stumble around like morons). No matter what the Wolves win, and they win hard.

They 'lost' to the Jade Falcons during the refusal war but what appears as defeat turns into some sorta awesome victory as not only does Clan Wolf in Exile turn into this powerhouse instead of just fading away like the survivors of other destroyed clans. Also just to top it off Vlad Ward goes onto kill Chistu where for SOOOME reason Elias Crichell decides to unabsorb Clan Wolf and make them Jade Wolf.. for a whole 19 days before they become Clan Wolf again.

Gee.. who would of know it was that easy to get your clan unabsorbed and reestablished... tell that to the widowmakers, mongooses and whatever other clans that just got blapped through absorptions

While I love all the Clan Wolf players and really enjoy playing with them, the story of Clan Wolf is something I just can't stand. The all mighty Clan that simply can not fail, even when it does fail its not really failure as it's for the better (we now get 2 clan Wolfs!) or was somehow masterfully planned out. They also have their hands in, or the major backers of just about anything Clan related that the writers can seem to tie them to.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 08 May 2014 - 08:04 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Lucian Nostra, on 08 May 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

Call me late to the party

OK. You are late to the party.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

In a nutshell...

The Warden clans tried vigorously to stall the invasion of the Inner Sphere. The Crusaders wanted to return and punish the IS for the Exodus. Both sides wanted to return because they were following Nikolas' ideas, not Alexsandr's.

Ultimately, the Crusaders won and the Wardens couldn't stop the juggernaught without bringing about Trials of Absorption against themselves. Wolf's Dragoons were to prepare the IS against the Clans, but the real agenda was to slow down the other Clans so Clan Wolf could reach Terra first.

The prize was Terra. Whoever held Terra controlled the Clans (in theory) and this is why Ulric pushed as hard as he did during the invasion. He reasoned if he could get the Wolves to Terra first, then Clan Wolf could elevate itself above the other Clans and could dictate terms.

What he didn't count on was that the exposure to the Inner Sphere would corrupt the Clan way of thinking. Envy. Greed. Deceit. Bitterness. These are all things that they already had experienced, but the rigid Clan structure limited the impact upon Clan society. It frustrated and infuriated the Crusader clans during the invasion and they began to fight fire with fire but didn't just stop there. It took root and turned many of the Clans into the exact thing the SLDF fought so hard to oppose before the Exodus against Amaris' forces. The whole Clan story is full of parallels and ironies to events during the days of the Terran Hegemony. Focht saw right through Ulric's plans from the getgo, which was no surprise given his past.

Returning to the Inner Sphere is something the Clans (Wardens and Crusaders both) always intended to do. They just had different ideas on what to do once they got there. The Wardens wanted to be benevolent dictators, while the Crusaders wanted to be iron fisted tyrants. Neither was the "good guy."

What the Clans forgot (due to their civil war and the introduction of their caste system and so on) is that the only legitimacy for the First Star Lord rested squarely upon the 5 great Houses. That's what the Succession Wars were all about. In otherwords, the Clans had gone from the SLDF, sworn protectors of the Inner Sphere and the military arm of the First Star Lord, to muniteers. It was no surprise when the storyline eventually followed that path if you'd read the House and SLDF sourcebooks. The Clans were simply the catalyst for reunification so to speak because the Amaris of 3050 were the Clans themselves.

I highly recommend reading all 5 House sourcebooks, as well as the SLDF one as they offer some amazing clarity on what was truly was going on.

Edited by ShadowWolf Kell, 08 May 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Lucian Nostra, on 08 May 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

Call me late to the party but calling Clan Wolf the 'smart guys' is a bit tough for me to swallow. What starts off as good hindsight and strong leadership in appearance turns into borderline Mary Sue-ism as the Clan stories unfold.

Clan Wolf simply can not be beat, biggest invasion corridor and the captured planets just love these guys, only clan to fully succeed on Tukayyid because masterful tacticians (while the other clans stumble around like morons). No matter what the Wolves win, and they win hard.

They 'lost' to the Jade Falcons during the refusal war but what appears as defeat turns into some sorta awesome victory as not only does Clan Wolf in Exile turn into this powerhouse instead of just fading away like the survivors of other destroyed clans. Also just to top it off Vlad Ward goes onto kill Chistu where for SOOOME reason Elias Crichell decides to unabsorb Clan Wolf and make them Jade Wolf.. for a whole 19 days before they become Clan Wolf again.

Gee.. who would of know it was that easy to get your clan unabsorbed and reestablished... tell that to the widowmakers, mongooses and whatever other clans that just got blapped through absorptions

While I love all the Clan Wolf players and really enjoy playing with them, the story of Clan Wolf is something I just can't stand. The all mighty Clan that simply can not fail, even when it does fail its not really failure as it's for the better (we now get 2 clan Wolfs!) or was somehow masterfully planned out. They also have their hands in, or the major backers of just about anything Clan related that the writers can seem to tie them to.

On a serious note though, the Wolves were given an invasion corridor considered to hold the least honor. It was an insult. I showed proof of that in an earlier post.

As to why Crichell chose to "unabsorb" the Wolves, Vlad figures it out in Malicious Intent.



Crichell has given Vlad the vengeance he wanted as well as restoring his honor, gave him access to getting his Bloodname, in addition to making him a Khan. Lastly as Vlad realizes, Crichell saves him & his Wolves from being exterminated. Vlad owes him & now that Vlad is now a voice & more importantly a vote in the Grand Council, he expects Vlad will vote his way on every issue & have Vlad's Jade Wolves as an exclusive ally.

[Lucian Nostra]

It does not matter that the corridor was considered the least honorable because in true Wolf fashion and Mary Sue-ism they did far better than any other invading clan capturing far more planets and than turning the tables by assigning secondary clans to the Falcons Bears and Jaguars since they where lagging behind.

Also what sense did it make to give up the entire absorbed Wolf touman to get 1 voice in the clan halls? Just blatantly done to bring about Clan Wolf the amazing Phoenix

[CyclonerM]

Lucian Nostra, on 08 May 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

While I love all the Clan Wolf players and really enjoy playing with them, the story of Clan Wolf is something I just can't stand. The all mighty Clan that simply can not fail, even when it does fail its not really failure as it's for the better (we now get 2 clan Wolfs!) or was somehow masterfully planned out. They also have their hands in, or the major backers of just about anything Clan related that the writers can seem to tie them to.

I understand what you say and while it is partly true, i see that some Jade Falcon players (like one whose name starts with Ed and ends with Steele ) thinks that actually the Wolf Clan was not as powerful as most claim. I will be objective on the history of the Wolves pointing out how not everything went well for them and how they have been defeated more than a few times:

-They lost their IlKhan, Nicholas Kerensky, in a dishonorable action;
-Their "task force" has suffered having damage pursuing the fleeing Widowmakers;
-They lost the schematics of the Dire Wolf to the Jaguars;
-They lost (narrowly) the Trial of Refusal to prevent the invasion & forced to fight in the easiest invasion corridor to negate them chances for more glory, even if this eventually benefitted them in the race toward Terra;
-They have been opposed by all the other invading Clans until Tukayyid and even then;
-Ulric failed to keep the Crusaders at bay until the Truce expired and had to start the Refusal War;
-Ulric died at the hands of the Falcon SaKhan (in an ambush.. )
-The Clan has been split (the Exiled are not that strong actually, they have only three Galaxies IIRC).
-Sure, two Clan Wolf may be strong but a single united Clan would have been stronger.
-The two Clan Wolf are opposing each other and i do not see it as a good thing to pride us with.

I am not very familiar with Jihad and Dark Age but it looks like Ghost Bears, Snow Raven, Jade Falcon and Star Adders will become quite strong too.

Jaroth Corbett, on 08 May 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

he expects Vlad will vote his way on every issue & have Vlad's Jade Wolves as an exclusive ally

Too bad for him things will not go quite that way

P.S. a single vote may decide the fate of the Clans in the Grand Council. A vote could renew the invasion, something an entire Touman could not do.