105 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

My only concern about the Gargoyle is that it sinks so much tonnage into that monster engine that it is so lightly armed. I would honestly rather see the Executioner. It goes fast, but does so with MASC, so it can carry a larger payload. That, and it has jump jets. Weeee!

[CyclonerM]

Pariah Devalis, on 09 March 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

My only concern about the Gargoyle is that it sinks so much tonnage into that monster engine that it is so lightly armed. I would honestly rather see the Executioner. It goes fast, but does so with MASC, so it can carry a larger payload. That, and it has jump jets. Weeee!

I remember the Executioner has not a much bigger weaponry.. It is another fast assault. The Gargoyle does not rely on MASC for its speed however.

And would you dismiss so lightly a custom configuration like 2 UAC/5, 2/3 small LRM launchers and a couple of ER mediums? I would love it. Aside from jump capability, it would be an Assault Shadow Hawk

[Pariah Devalis]

That is true, I have come to pooh pooh small LRM launchers due to the piss poor showing of the Inner Sphere varieties. You would struggle to fit all of that in a Gargoyle, however. The twin UAC5 should be easily doable, but beyond that you are scraping for tonnage. 2 UAC5 alone do not make a good mech, unfortunately.

Edit:

Now I am curious what I could cram in an Executioner. Give me a few moments.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 09 March 2014 - 02:09 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

The following is all Table Top values, so would need to be corrected for MWO. Simple armor doubling and modification of ammunition is required, really. And the speed for it is:

64.8 km/h (86.4 km/h with MASC)

Spoiler

Executioner Hypothetical
Clan TW
95 tons
BV: 2,933
Cost: 35,949,510 C-bills

Movement: 4/6(8)/4
Engine: 380 XL
Heat Sinks: 16 [32]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 145
Armor: 249/293 (Ferro-Fibrous)
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso 30 54
Center Torso (rear) 6
Right Torso 20 35
Right Torso (rear) 5
Left Torso 20 35
Left Torso (rear) 5
Right Arm 16 30
Left Arm 16 30
Right Leg 20 20
Left Leg 20 20

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
ER PPC RA 15
Ultra AC/5 RT 1
Ultra AC/5 RT 1
ER Medium Laser LA 5
ER Medium Laser LA 5
ER Medium Laser LA 5

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Ultra AC/5 Ammo LT 20
Ultra AC/5 Ammo RT 20
Ultra AC/5 Ammo RA 20
Ultra AC/5 Ammo LA 20

Equipment Loc
----------------------------------
Standard None
MASC LT

2x UAC5, 3x ERMLas, 1x ERPPC, 95x Tons of PAIN.

*Prime mech except for the LEFT ARM, which was swapped for hardpoints belonging to ALPHA.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 09 March 2014 - 02:24 PM.

[Onlystolen]

Pariah Devalis, on 09 March 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

An over fluffed piece of scrap metal, if you ask me. I could never understand the Falcon fascination with such an under-equipped omnimech.

"Honor" is the only thing that comes to mind : \

[Craig Steele]

Pariah Devalis, on 09 March 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

An over fluffed piece of scrap metal, if you ask me. I could never understand the Falcon fascination with such an under-equipped omnimech.

Well what are you comparing it to?

I mean its lighter chassis with the same pod space as a Timberwolf (adding back the 5 fixed Jump jets) and its weapon configs can hardly be sneezed at.

It does run standard structure which means a reduction in armour but it does have space for bigger weapons as a consequence. So it hits harder more often as it's heat capacity is not as adverse as some other mechs alpha strke.

Config A for example is a 37 point alpha at 360 meters that doesn't touch the heat scale even if it's jumping 5. It can do that for as long as it has ammo. In close terrain jumping from cover to cover thats going to wreck a few mechs day.

Config C nudges the heat a little but it's a monster alpha, 69 points.

If you want to put it in an open field against a TImberwolf its going to get found out, but if brawling and big guns is your thing, it's pretty damn effective.

[Pariah Devalis]

Well, for that mobility, it sacrifices an awful lot of armor. While it does have a few big guns, it is only a few big guns. No redundancy whatsoever. Between the lack of armor and the lack of innate battlefield longevity, the mech is forced to fight in a most unclanlike way: hide and seek. From a MWO standpoint, Prime and Alpha are essentially the same mech. The most weapons it can hope to carry would be, if I remember correctly, four.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 09 March 2014 - 08:46 PM.

[Craig Steele]

Pariah Devalis, on 09 March 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

Well, for that mobility, it sacrifices an awful lot of armor. While it does have a few big guns, it is only a few big guns. No redundancy whatsoever. Between the lack of armor and the lack of innate battlefield longevity, the mech is forced to fight in a most unclanlike way: hide and seek. From a MWO standpoint, Prime and Alpha are essentially the same mech. The most weapons it can hope to carry would be, if I remember correctly, four.

What???

Hide and seek????, since when have clans been above using cover in combat? I don't recall they had a culture of standing in the open and saying shoot me I have armour?

It is arguably more efficient than most Omni's, it's weapon load outs are generally very close to it's heat capacity so in most variants it's the ever ready bunny, just keeps going.

Something like the Timberwolf has a more potent alpha, but it is then crippled by the heat spike, if it takes a lower weapon profile, its tonnage committed to heat sinks can become wasted tonnage, again inefficient. Pods mean you can tinker, but the Summoner runs pretty lean.

Clan battles were always about the here and now, in a trial scenario ammo consumption was rarely an issue. The D variant carries 2 ERLL and 2 ERML with a TC and more heat sinks. That will never stop all day and can put 38 dmg on a called location at 450m, 2 salvo's wrecks a Madcat CT completely.

Look I'm not saying it's the be all and end all, but there's a lot to be said for jump 5 mechs in TT. You jump into partial cover its a +6 to hit and any facing you wanted which means unless the shooter is a crack shot or the range is very short, they are going to miss every weapon. And I always found armour to be kinda redundant if I wasn't getting hit

[Mordin Ashe]

Sure, Timberwolf is iconic. So much that I don't doubt some people will get it from the a-la-carte sale and skip everything else. The problem is though what KuroNyra said, we often like Mechs we have some specific memories asociated with.
For me it is the Shadow Cat. From the MW4 Vengeance, this Mech was sometimes encountered in the early missions and performed very well, scaring the hell out of my 6xSL Osiris. I started to like it, it is quite small, heavily armed and very agile. Such Mech in MWO would be THE striker/flanker! And with it great looks, this would be the no.1 Mech for me to get, no matter the price.

But yes, the Timberwolf isn't a bad Mech. For reasons already mentioned it wasn't the smart man's choice in MW4, but still a very good mix of LRMs and lasers (didn't use ballistics back there), both deadly and safe if one preferes to stay a bit further from the combat. Still, I like the Shadow Cat better.

[CyclonerM]

Pariah Devalis, on 09 March 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

Well, for that mobility, it sacrifices an awful lot of armor. While it does have a few big guns, it is only a few big guns. No redundancy whatsoever. Between the lack of armor and the lack of innate battlefield longevity, the mech is forced to fight in a most unclanlike way: hide and seek. From a MWO standpoint, Prime and Alpha are essentially the same mech. The most weapons it can hope to carry would be, if I remember correctly, four.

I see your point with the armor, but i would love it as a mobile support/brawling 'Mech. Heavy mobile and fast, you could have fun mounting few weapons... But hard hitting weapons. LBX+SSRM+LPL for anti-light ops, UAC/10 or 20 + ERPPC+SSRMs or LRMs for brawl.. Gauss+LRM+LRM would be mine!

What will hurt the most the Summoner IMHO is how OmniPods will work in the game. In lore, you should be able to fit every kind of weapons so you could have at very least a full energy Summoner.. In MWO it will have far fewer builds even with swappable hardpoints..

Mordin Ashe, on 09 March 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

But yes, the Timberwolf isn't a bad Mech. For reasons already mentioned it wasn't the smart man's choice in MW4, but still a very good mix of LRMs and lasers (didn't use ballistics back there), both deadly and safe if one preferes to stay a bit further from the combat.

No ballistic? I guess you have never tried my Gauss Wolf
Sure, in MW4 you could freely customize OmniMechs so i could reduce the engine rating and such to gain tonnage (and i also had to use a Light Gauss) but still..

[Pariah Devalis]

Man, in MW4, I ran around with a twin gauss, twin LRM15, ERLLas Ebon Jaguar. When I revisited it post MekTek, it had the ERLLas replaced with a light PPC. The thing was a monster, and an absolute blast to drive.

It was also completely impossible to build in any other game. Legally. The engine size was too low (it maxed out at 71 kph).

[CyclonerM]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 March 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

Man, in MW4, I ran around with a twin gauss, twin LRM15, ERLLas Ebon Jaguar. When I revisited it post MekTek, it had the ERLLas replaced with a light PPC. The thing was a monster, and an absolute blast to drive.

It was also completely impossible to build in any other game. Legally. The engine size was too low (it maxed out at 71 kph).

Messing around in the mechlab was funny, but yeah that mechlab was weird and could let you create horrific 'Mechs.

Of course, the best of all is the stock Stone Rhino, quiaff? I remember fighting in the last mission.. I had been legged and i was desperately slow, but the firepower of a Rail Gun + 4 ERLL was totally worth it. I could -almost- oneshot a Timberwolf.

[Mordin Ashe]

CyclonerM, on 10 March 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

No ballistic? I guess you have never tried my Gauss Wolf
Sure, in MW4 you could freely customize OmniMechs so i could reduce the engine rating and such to gain tonnage (and i also had to use a Light Gauss) but still..

Oh, I tried those a lot and sucked soo hard with them! Nothing complicated on running such setup, but I simply couldn't figure it out at that time and, well, don't like gausses up till now. It had great visuals, but I just couldn't make it work for me.

Anyway, I will probably upgrade to Timberwolf clan package next month, so... Looking forward to driving his beast again in July!

[_Comrade_]

The Timber Wolf / Mad Cat has it all. It's tough, can fight mid and long range and has the speed. I would be concern with it's mickey mouse ears being easy to shoot off and it's cockpit sticking out like a sore thumb, but lore wise the Timber wolf was the icon of the clan invasion and was the first mech spotting by Phelan Kell during his ill fated mission and it was the mech that clan jade falcon Aidan Pryde made his last stand in

[CyclonerM]

Grimwill, on 11 March 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

The Timber Wolf / Mad Cat has it all. It's tough, can fight mid and long range and has the speed. I would be concern with it's mickey mouse ears being easy to shoot off and it's cockpit sticking out like a sore thumb, but lore wise the Timber wolf was the icon of the clan invasion and was the first mech spotting by Phelan Kell during his ill fated mission and it was the mech that clan jade falcon Aidan Pryde made his last stand in

The cockpit? Ah! I am more worried by the CT It was abnormally huge in MW4 but i trust PGI to reduce its hitbox in some way.. Or it will be like the Catapult. I am a Cat pilot and i would like to have a bigger cockpit hitbox so the CT hitbox is slightly smaller

[CyclonerM]

Marack Drock, on 11 March 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

You don't need to worry about the hitboxes on TWolf. Why? Because it will kill the enemy before they have a chance at even remotely hurting it (Going by the Lore OP Clan Tech). With the new "Balancing" it will still be 20 times that of Cataphract.

Actually many IS assaults and heavies would have the second required to fire a PPC/UAC/5 and would probably hit always the CT. It takes only a second...

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Timber Wolf is uber iconic, but if you actually stop and look at the thing, the arms are ridiculously spindly and unarmored for a military tool of destruction. It sort of has the T-Rex syndrome going on, except it's a T-Rex with half its teeth in its arms.

[DONTOR]

I think the Tiger tank would relate to the Direwolf better. Huge firepower, most armor possible, heaviest, also quite slow. A timberwolf is more akin to a Panzer Mk IV in my opinion, because it is very well rounded. (since were making WWII tank referrences)

Edited by DONTOR, 11 March 2014 - 02:27 PM.

[KuroNyra]

I think of it more that way

Tiger I => Timber Wolf
Tiger II => Daishy (yeah. I prefer that name over the clan one.)

[Pariah Devalis]

Man. If you insist on using the barbarian designation, at least spell it right. Every time you type "daishy" I cringe.