271 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 March 2014 - 12:05 AM, said:

wow, succeed or dont bother? i guess that is why you will never understand, you lack determination. you lack the need to make things better even if you fail the first time. just because you get something wrong the first time doesn't mean it cant be fixed, i cant believe you said that. that's evolution, adapt to the changes(there's more to that but we will keep it basic). Pgi doesn't lay down and die, and they keep at it. Not giving up, is the key. Not quitting when there is much to be gained.

Actually, they actually don't bother. It's called Game Balance. Perhaps you have not been enlightened in discussions involving them, but besides the common bickering about the obvious, there are things to be tweaked and changed... if not to just try something different. The thing of it is, not every idea that comes posted in these forums are great. It happens. People think they have the idea... but we discuss them, whether or not we like the idea. The problem is that PGI hasn't really tried to look into making stuff unique. For instance, we have had plenty of discussions on "how to make pulse lasers unique". Now, in my previous mention of them, pulse lasers are ultimately standard lasers with different properties. So, if they are more or less like regular lasers, why can't we try something different or radical? Are we stuck trying to make them something slightly less inferior than regular lasers? Can we not even attempt ideas like copying MW3's pulse lasers (a long energy beam pulse that does damage)? Is trying to make them machine-gun like (frequent fire, smaller doses of damage) going to make them completely overpowered?

How do we know about the possibilities if we don't try? Is it just better to "accept what PGI tells us is fine"? If gameplay was just finite and stale as it is now, then how do we expect the game to evolve? How is there a "new metagame" when the "old metagame" is still the same as the "new metagame"? Noone is asking for easy-mode, people want something working better than before and everyone isn't always going to like the change, but who said they were actually going to try and make pulse lasers different? It's not like those ideas haven't been thrown around before... it's just not even attempted at all.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Deathlike, on 16 March 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

Actually, they actually don't bother. It's called Game Balance. Perhaps you have not been enlightened in discussions involving them, but besides the common bickering about the obvious, there are things to be tweaked and changed... if not to just try something different. The thing of it is, not every idea that comes posted in these forums are great. It happens. People think they have the idea... but we discuss them, whether or not we like the idea. The problem is that PGI hasn't really tried to look into making stuff unique. For instance, we have had plenty of discussions on "how to make pulse lasers unique". Now, in my previous mention of them, pulse lasers are ultimately standard lasers with different properties. So, if they are more or less like regular lasers, why can't we try something different or radical? Are we stuck trying to make them something slightly less inferior than regular lasers? Can we not even attempt ideas like copying MW3's pulse lasers (a long energy beam pulse that does damage)? Is trying to make them machine-gun like (frequent fire, smaller doses of damage) going to make them completely overpowered?

How do we know about the possibilities if we don't try? Is it just better to "accept what PGI tells us is fine"? If gameplay was just finite and stale as it is now, then how do we expect the game to evolve? How is there a "new metagame" when the "old metagame" is still the same as the "new metagame"? Noone is asking for easy-mode, people want something working better than before and everyone isn't always going to like the change, but who said they were actually going to try and make pulse lasers different? It's not like those ideas haven't been thrown around before... it's just not even attempted at all.

I hear you, but at the same time, pulse lasers as they are in game, there's nothing wrong with them. Lpulse do what they should and fire several beams in quick succession. they do what there were made to do. blame battletech, or the scientist that made them. What do you think they should do?

"Are we stuck trying to make them something slightly less inferior than regular lasers?" how are they inferior?

[BLOOD WOLF]

There is a reason why the med pulse cannot go as far as a med laser but i dont think people realize why

[Deathlike]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 March 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

I hear you, but at the same time, pulse lasers as they are in game, there's nothing wrong with them. Lpulse do what they should and fire several beams in quick succession. they do what there were made to do. blame battletech, or the scientist that made them. What do you think they should do?

Pulse lasers aren't broken. They simply don't have the same utility compared to their non-pulse counterparts. Instead of spending the extra ton for the med pulse laser over the med laser, I could use the extra ton for DHS.. which will get me going longer. I'd rather be able to fire the lasers as often as I can, whenever I can. The longer I have to cool off, the less opportunity I have for dealing damage. That doesn't even even to cover the range aspect. In older MW games, pulse lasers had a place and purpose. In this game, they fulfill very little. I'd take a PPC over the Large Pulse Laser... instant damage vs .6 seconds facing the target. I'll take my chances @ 90m just fine.

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"Are we stuck trying to make them something slightly less inferior than regular lasers?" how are they inferior?

When the regular laser is essentially better (Small Pulse unfortunately competes with the medium laser, Medium Pulse is still too hot, and the Large Pulse is still inferior to the PPC or even the LL if you need the extra tonnage for DHS), then you have a problem. If you use them, great. I spend too much time using medium lasers over the alternatives. Medium lasers aren't OP... it's that the alternatives are simply underpowered and lacking in utility.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Deathlike, on 16 March 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

Pulse lasers aren't broken. They simply don't have the same utility compared to their non-pulse counterparts. Instead of spending the extra ton for the med pulse laser over the med laser, I could use the extra ton for DHS.. which will get me going longer. I'd rather be able to fire the lasers as often as I can, whenever I can. The longer I have to cool off, the less opportunity I have for dealing damage. That doesn't even even to cover the range aspect. In older MW games, pulse lasers had a place and purpose. In this game, they fulfill very little. I'd take a PPC over the Large Pulse Laser... instant damage vs .6 seconds facing the target. I'll take my chances @ 90m just fine.



When the regular laser is essentially better (Small Pulse unfortunately competes with the medium laser, Medium Pulse is still too hot, and the Large Pulse is still inferior to the PPC or even the LL if you need the extra tonnage for DHS), then you have a problem. If you use them, great. I spend too much time using medium lasers over the alternatives. Medium lasers aren't OP... it's that the alternatives are simply underpowered and lacking in utility.

you would take a PPC over a large pulse? just because you dont like how they fire? isnt that kinda ridiculous? I run 6 med pulse in my hunchback and i prefer them over med lasers, the same goes for my Awesome, i would rather run med pulse than med lasers. You cannot use personal preference for a logical argument.

[rolly]

Special thanks toe Peiper for taking to distill the dribble.

I personally don't think I would have been able to waste the time to listen to marketingese from the podcast. I see no point in listening to a podcast that doesn't actually answer questions or repromising promises made a year ago. I'm glad they don't have stocks in PGI, I'd have sold my shares long ago if I sat through a stakeholder meeting and the CEO didn't answer (ie. evaded) pointed questions about why things have not been delivered.

Also thanks to Roadbeer and Deathlike, you both pretty much voice my discontent with such a pathetic delivery. To me nothing has truly changed with UI 2.0. Just more to fix and repromises made.

[Rashhaverak]

MWO: Play with three or less of your friends!

[Rebas Kradd]

Deathlike, on 16 March 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

In older MW games, pulse lasers had a place and purpose. In this game, they fulfill very little. I'd take a PPC over the Large Pulse Laser... instant damage vs .6 seconds facing the target. I'll take my chances @ 90m just fine.

A lot of people disagree and enjoy pulse lasers the way they are, now that they've been buffed. So it's not your place to judge PGI for weapon balance when opinion is divided.

Quote

He says that without the forced going into and out of the mechlab to look at the various pictures and stats for each piece of equipment, that we'd miss part of the experience of the mechlab

I resent having the experience of MWO decided for me. Russ, people are using Smurfy to assemble their builds and then alt-tabbing into the game to actually execute them. That's not an ideal situation. I get that you have zero manpower and that outsourcing everything to the community that you can is kinda necessary, but nobody cares about the pictures and unnecessary stats. They care about getting their build tweaked and into the game as soon as possible.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 16 March 2014 - 08:19 AM.

[RG Notch]

People are actually surprised by the disconnect with reality that this dev team operates under? Still? Keep calm and buy more MC!

[AntharPrime]

Poor Russ does seem to have a chronic case of "foot in mouth" disease. His explanation about how hard programming the Smurfy style mech lab into UI 2.0 because of the different screen resolutions is truely sad.

I think that putting in a list of items without the graphic would free up the space for the Smurfy graphic while still leaving the mech visible on the right of the screen.

Edited by AntharPrime, 16 March 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Just not sure what to say about this. Honestly.

[Corvus Antaka]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Deathlike]

Rebas Kradd, on 16 March 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

A lot of people disagree and enjoy pulse lasers the way they are, now that they've been buffed. So it's not your place to judge PGI for weapon balance when opinion is divided.

Yes, that's why I see NARC used everywhere right?

Oh wait...

[Roadbeer]

Deathlike, on 16 March 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Yes, that's why I see NARC used everywhere right?

Oh wait...

When did they put NARC in the game?

[Deathlike]

Roadbeer, on 16 March 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

When did they put NARC in the game?

Dunno, maybe somewhere between the Dec 2012 release of Conquest and the Dec 2013 release of Skirmish.

I'll just use the "free Wifi" for now.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 March 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Son of the Flood]

Thanks Peiper for this (and the many other) transcripts and summaries you have provided. Much appreciated!

[Odins Fist]

AntharPrime, on 16 March 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

Poor Russ does seem to have a chronic case of "foot in mouth" disease. His explanation about how hard programming the Smurfy style mech lab into UI 2.0 because of the different screen resolutions is truely sad.

^ This ^

If it's too hard to accomplish something similar to the drag and drop like we had, then i'm absolutely loathe to describe what level of sheer incompetence this portrays to the gaming community, whether or not it is incompetence or not. I don't subscribe to that percetion of them (PGI) being utterly incompetent.

The thing is though, almost every review of MWO see reads almost exactly the same.

Edited by Odins Fist, 16 March 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Odins Fist, on 16 March 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

^ This ^

If it's too hard to accomplish something similar to the drag and drop like we had, then i'm absolutely loathe to describe what level of sheer incompetence this portrays to the gaming community, whether or not it is incompetence or not. I don't subscribe to that percetion of them (PGI) being utterly incompetent.

The thing is though, almost every review of MWO see reads almost exactly the same.

This is unbelievable. Mech4 gave us a "smurphy" type lab on 14 inch monitors. ui 2.0 is actually worse than 1.5 and lacking key features like where what hardpoints are on mechs.

I am beyond glad I haven't bought the clan pack at this point.

PGI can't do VOIP. They can't do a basic normal user interface despite a year of delays.

All our bitching seems completely irrelevant.

I can only assume the 86% of people pugging this game are throwing money at mechwarrior like there is no tommorrow to continue supporting this lack of quality development cycle.

If indeed it is true that PGI can not deliver us a smurphy type mechlab interface, maybe PGI should hire the guy that wrote the smurphy interface to do the job properly.

Almost everything is an excuse for "why it can't be done" and it's been that way for 3 years. Convoluted choices. Bizarre comments. Outright contradictions and lies.

Quality comes from "can do" productions & attitudes in any environment.

If PGI continues to succeed as a company it's a testament to how much gaming has grown that even weaker production can produce quality revenue without being able to deliver a quality product and continuosly sell the playerbase vague hopes and dreams, only to have them crushed by the reality of incompetance that seems to underline certain aspects of this production.

Titanfall was made by a team of 65. There is no reason mechwarrior could not have seen the same success as Titanfall.

I haven't seen a single active unit member of mine online since Titanfall was released. That's 35 guys that have completely vanished in the last two weeks, from fully active to gone.

I sure hope PGI has some big magic trick up their sleeve, otherwise I'm not seeing this end well at all.

[Deathlike]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 16 March 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

This is unbelievable. Mech4 gave us a "smurphy" type lab on 14 inch monitors. ui 2.0 is actually worse than 1.5 and lacking key features like where what hardpoints are on mechs.

IIRC, the Mechlab in MW4 was always rendered @ 800x600. Those were by "Windows XP basic standards".

I know MS has "raised the bar" with Win8 @ 1024x768 (tablet requirement IIRC), but the machines that run this game aren't usually of the "minimal requirements" type. That's just the mindboggling thing about it.

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PGI can't do VOIP. They can't do a basic normal user interface despite a year of delays.

I would say a "quick and dirty implementation" would be using something like integrating TS3 with the game. It would probably be more effective that way.

Quote

All our bitching seems completely irrelevant.

I can only assume the 86% of people pugging this game are throwing money at mechwarrior like there is no tommorrow to continue supporting this lack of quality development cycle.

Don't summon the white knights. They'll appear soon™.

Quote

If indeed it is true that PGI can not deliver us a smurphy type mechlab interface, maybe PGI should hire the guy that wrote the smurphy interface to do the job properly.

It is the labrat's golden cheese.

Quote

Almost everything is an excuse for "why it can't be done" and it's been that way for 3 years. Convoluted choices. Bizarre comments. Outright contradictions and lies.

Quality comes from "can do" productions & attitudes in any environment.

If PGI continues to succeed as a company it's a testament to how much gaming has grown that even weaker production can produce quality revenue without being able to deliver a quality product and continuosly sell the playerbase vague hopes and dreams, only to have them crushed by the reality of incompetance that seems to underline certain aspects of this production.

Ask not what PGI can do for you... ask what PGI can do for making you spend money on it?

Quote

Titanfall was made by a team of 65. There is no reason mechwarrior could not have seen the same success as Titanfall.

I haven't seen a single active unit member of mine online since Titanfall was released. That's 35 guys that have completely vanished in the last two weeks, from fully active to gone.

If people in your unit show up, a random party would be fun. Because it would be a surprise. It is unfortunate this is the state of the game.

Quote

I sure hope PGI has some big magic trick up their sleeve, otherwise I'm not seeing this end well at all.

I'm pretty some white knight will claim that "Achievements" will hold you over for a bit... but from my understanding... a lot of those things are probably going to be pretty shallow.

http://www.reddit.co...rning_spoilers/

Edited by Deathlike, 16 March 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[BlackBeltJones]

I primarily play 'Smurfy' these days and only use MWO to occasionally validate my Smurfy gameplay.