75 replies to this topic

[Ngamok]

NautilusCommand, on 18 March 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

1x AC20, 2xLarge Laser , and 2x SSRM 2s.
I loved that build, but not now.

I mastered my 9S Monday night and it's 1x AC/20 2xML 3xSSRMs but last night I was in my 9K 1x Gauss 2xLL 2xSSRMs and was brawling just fine.

[AlmightyAeng]

Played around last night in my 'Metaman' build for the Dragonslayer. 2xAC5, 2xPPC, AMS, 3 JJ, XL 330.

If I'm pulling 700+ damage, 4+ kills a match, but doing it with that build at a range of 150-300m...am I brawling, poptarting, or just winning?

The nerf made Victors feel more like assaults. It didn't ruin them for long-range work. It didn't ruin them for short-range work. They just no longer feel like a 65-ton mech running a 300 engine.

I see no issues here.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

You were able to make a mech that could jump, was fast, has a high alpha, and can brawl? If this mech was able to do all these things well, then clearly it needs a nerf.

It could brawl because of the speed and jumping(before changes). Now they are still good and jump sniping but for brawling their are probably better options.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

If I'm pulling 700+ damage, 4+ kills a match, but doing it with that build at a range of 150-300m...am I brawling, poptarting, or just winning?

If you want to be exact then I ment close range brawling. At 300m you do not need turning or jumping in the same way you do at 5m-100m. That close in brawling it what got nurfed and what was not a problem to begin with.

[Appogee]

Got mugged by a lone Raven in my Dragon Slayer. He was calling in LRM spam from afar, while hitting me himself with PPCs.

Even though I have an XL360 engine and 3 JJs, I could no longer jump/turn fast enough to land a shot on him.

So now, instead of being the "agile-but-low-armour" Assault, Victor is the "just-as-lumbering-as-a-Highlander-but-with-less-armor" Assault. May as well pilot the Highlander and take advantage of the extra armor if I am going to lumber around.

Thanks PGI. I'm sure many of your customers especially appreciated the way you put the DS on sale just slightly before you nerfed it to uselessness.

By the way, I never used the Victor to poptart. I only used the JJs for getting around hilly terrain and occasionally for getting shots over the heads of friendlies who were in the way.

Edited by Appogee, 19 March 2014 - 08:45 AM.

[catspider]

I dont like poptarting and never did use my DS to do so. However last night i tried aiming my torso weapons and it was a pain so i switched it to PPC + AC meta and started doing great all of a sudden with that particular play style.

I do have a problem with spending 30$ on a mech, only to have it changed into another at the whim of PGI. And while one cannot get or expect a refund on something already used it certainly means gong forward i will not be spending any more money on the game that treats its paying customers like this.(the free victors have most weapons in arms and are not as affected by this, and they are free so expectations are different)

If there is a problem with pop-tarting in the game it is not the mech that is doing it.. it is simply the mechanics of how weapons, aiming and damage works in the game. This particular change is much too drastic and shows a lack of vision and understanding of the issues occurring in the game, especially in an assault that needs an xl to be fully utilized.

Edited by catspider, 19 March 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[Vespere Dax]

Ok if they want to make the Victor more slow and sluggish then you need to rebalance it by adding more weapon slots (mainly energy pnts). The highlander, atlas, BM and awesome all have a lot more hard points which make them more formidable.

Give the Victor 2-3 more energy slots along with the nerf.

[XX Sulla XX]

I got my DS right when it came out so at least I got plenty of time to use it before the buff. Need to just make a jump sniper out of it now.

[Komagn]

Appogee, on 19 March 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

Got mugged by a lone Raven in my Dragon Slayer. He was calling in LRM spam from afar, while hitting me himself with PPCs.

Even though I have an XL360 engine and 3 JJs, I could no longer jump/turn fast enough to land a shot on him.

So now, instead of being the "agile-but-low-armour" Assault, Victor is the "just-as-lumbering-as-a-Highlander-but-with-less-armor" Assault. May as well pilot the Highlander and take advantage of the extra armor if I am going to lumber around.

Thanks PGI. I'm sure many of your customers especially appreciated the way you put the DS on sale just slightly before you nerfed it to uselessness.

By the way, I never used the Victor to poptart. I only used the JJs for getting around hilly terrain and occasionally for getting shots over the heads of friendlies who were in the way.

My DS is a pure poptarter
My 9S is a straight up brawler
My 9K is a straight up Gauss + LL longer range sniper that can brawl.

I play all 3 roles with mine other than the LRM role with the Victors.

[Sarlic]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

So from what I can tell they had a problem with Victor jump snipers. So to combat that they have reduced jump jet turn speed to 70% of mech turn speed and then this week they have reduced the Victor turning speed and torso movement by another -20% and reduced arm movement by -10%. So how is this addressing the jump sniping? I know it hurts close in brawling with my Victors but best I could tell that was not a problem.

When my Atlas gets equipped with jumpjets then we will talk again.

See? That did not make any sense.

I say it's a good nerf.

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

So from what I can tell they had a problem with Victor jump snipers. So to combat that they have reduced jump jet turn speed to 70% of mech turn speed and then this week they have reduced the Victor turning speed and torso movement by another -20% and reduced arm movement by -10%. So how is this addressing the jump sniping? I know it hurts close in brawling with my Victors but best I could tell that was not a problem.

When my Atlas gets equipped with jumpjets then we will talk again.

See? That did not make any sense.

I say it's a good nerf.

[Nathaniel Kell]

Took mine out for a spin last night, did fine in a brawl. I didn't have to face any lights though.

Nerf seems fine to me.

[Solis Obscuri]

Wintersdark, on 18 March 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

It wasn't addressing jump sniping. It was addressing the fact that the Victor was much too agile for an assault.

The entire point of a Victor is that it's an assault with the agility of a heavy... or at least that was the point from 1986 until 2013, when PGI decided that all the heavy units that lived or died based on maneuverability should become slugs.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

So from what I can tell they had a problem with Victor jump snipers. So to combat that they have reduced jump jet turn speed to 70% of mech turn speed and then this week they have reduced the Victor turning speed and torso movement by another -20% and reduced arm movement by -10%. So how is this addressing the jump sniping? I know it hurts close in brawling with my Victors but best I could tell that was not a problem.

i think PGI needs to move away from looking at "OP" mechs as needing to be nerfed so much as viewing under-performing mechs and weapons as needing improvement to make them relevant. otherwise we keep getting caught in this never ending re balancing act that... well never ends in balance. also PGI could stand to more clearly define the roles of different mechs alot of variants of all weight classes feel utterly useless or inferior.

example being mediums. they really need to have their engines uncapped and i mean ALL mediums. a medium mech is supposed to be able to bring its firepower to bear at the critical point of a battle, its primary purpose is the flanker/support fire and light hunter/harasser to prevent flanks so it has a dual purpose in with almost any loadout.

lights need to be uncapped as well because well..... they are all basically tin foil mechs that can be put out of commission with 1 good alpha from any heavy/assault and even some med. but things like firestarter really peeve me because it just seems to "take" the damage like no other light. IE lights are supposed to be fast enough that they can easily dictate the range of engagement vs anything heavier then it. but it seems the trend is to simply make lights more "tanky" vs "harder-to-hit:"

assaults should be sluggish yes. but then they need to be REALLY tanky and i mean really tanky because a slow target in this game is just really easy pickings for any speedster/flanker especially when they can be caught alone.

most heavies don't feel like they really have a place right now, even with the victor/highlander nerfs most heavies are no match at all for bigger mechs and cant even stand in the main battleline without being brought down by 1-2 good pinpoint alphas. so they aren't even really more tanky then a med, they just have more weapons. conversely most heavies cannot move fast enough to fight off a good med or light and as such they just feel like a slower but slightly more tanky/armed med or a weak assault. maybe mech roles will help but we have mostly random battles with random mech lineups so...... ya

IE heavies need to have the most versatility of any chassis they need to be able to change it up to be able to serve as a sudo flanker or good second line support that's at least tanky enough to get into the brawl and pull their weight so to speak lol. they shouldn't always have to hide behind the assaults and just chase off slower lighter mechs. again they just feel like an oversize med most of the time. and precious few variants outshine the whole lineup of other heavies (granted all the weight classes have this problem)

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Komagn, on 19 March 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

My DS is a pure poptarter
My 9S is a straight up brawler
My 9K is a straight up Gauss + LL longer range sniper that can brawl.

I play all 3 roles with mine other than the LRM role with the Victors.

if find that DS is the best all-rounder of all the victors and that is its greatest strength with speed.

i don't find the nerf "overkill" but it doesn't really make me have faith in PGI. i do think at least MC mechs should be "nerf immune" cuz it is tantamount to "bait and switch" so what is the incentive for me or anyone to spend real money on a mech that can be nerfed into oblivion?

Edited by Mellifluer, 19 March 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[Komagn]

Mellifluer, on 19 March 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

if find that DS is the best all-rounder of all the victors and that is its greatest strength with speed.

i don't find the nerf "overkill" but it doesn't really make me have faith in PGI. i do think at least MC mechs should be "nerf immune" cuz it is tantamount to "bait and switch" so what is the incentive for me or anyone to spend really money on a mech that can be nerfed into oblivion?

Well, the 9B and the 9S puts everything in the arms and you can run the same build. But yes, the DS you can use a side to block with and not care if you lost that arm.

[Cimarb]

strikebrch, on 18 March 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

I totally agree with you ; if this was planetside 2 or ARMA of course.

This is MWO , people want to blow stuff and its more fun when you do it brawling.

Its nice to fire LRMs , PPCs and ACs for the sake of wining but ....wheres the fun in JUST doing that?

P.D: THIS IS NOT WAR , NOT EVEN A WAR SIMULATOR. IT'S A GAME.

I have just as much fun sniping and LRMing as I do with PPCs and ACs - imposing your idea of fun on the whole population is ingenuous. Based on your comment, though, I assume you only use SRMs and MGs?...

This is a game - I agree, but it is a game about big stompy robot war, not a game about Street Fighter or Yu-GI-Oh.

CarlBar, on 19 March 2014 - 02:50 AM, said:

That said FLD could be rather effectively band-aided with variable armor per ton across the mech, rather than DOT'ing so that the difference between a CT and ST is bigger, and same for ST vs Arm, (Legs would have to be adjusted relative to CT's). but again where moving outside the scope fo the thread.

You really want Ghost Armor? That makes me sad

Bishop Steiner, on 19 March 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

who said "lasers would dominate"?

I did.

If they were changed back to FLD hitscan weapons, they would be the top energy weapon, and likely even quite a bit better than ballistics.