68 replies to this topic

[AlmightyAeng]

Bigbacon, on 21 March 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

this is an odd question and i'm guess this has to do with balance? why is it that the smaller engines require you to carry so many more heatsinks than a large one?

My first assumption was that it was to offset people trying to toss light engines on mechs in order to lower their tons down, sometimes significantly.

I'll have to look at the Jager. I would like something that can carry a nice assortment of energy and ballistics of varying sizes and such which still being to move quickly around.

i really don't want to be a missile man though.

I did just have a lot of fun sniping around with an ERPPC on my cicada...Interesting to me that with lots of games, I often have more fun doing almost nothing.

Of the Jagers, the Jm6-A is actually my LEAST favorite. I recommend it for newer players because, while I find it to be the 'worst' of the Jagers, it's by an incredibly small margin (if my Firebrand rates a 10, the A is somewhere between an 8.5 and a 9 for me) and the variety of builds it supports is pretty big.

I see a LOT of new players complain that they wasted their cbills on mechs they didn't like, or playstyles that weren't fun. Getting a mech that lets you try them ALL before buying more chassis just makes sense to me (especially since you're then also building up your armory of weapons...don't sell stuff you buy...keep it around).

My Firebrand is my goto mech...6 ML and 2xAC5...love that thing. I think my DD is setup as a crit-seeker for funzies (4 MG, 2 LBX, 2 ML) though at one point I was rocking 3xAC5 on it and MURDERING (that build is now on my Ilya Muromets, along with 2 LL). The JM6-S is carrying 2 AC10's and 4 ML's, and is also a pretty solid build.

Regarding engine size and heatsinks, I believe (someone feel free to correct me) that it's a carryover from the board game. Smaller engine means less space for heatsinks...it's why certain size engines (like the 325) are favored, since they're the lightest engines in an "internal" heatsink bracket. 325 is the where engines start out with 3 internal heatsinks.

So, yeah, forces you to balance tonnage, speed and heat.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 21 March 2014 - 07:39 AM.

[Bigbacon]

i'm going to play with the mech lab, even the base Jager seems like a good start

kind of looking at the Blackjack also...seems to have a bunch of decent variants that could fulfill what I'm looking for.

Edited by Bigbacon, 21 March 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Hehehehe...Blackjacks are the "mini-jagers."

Of the 3, I love the BJ-1X best...he's my run-hot-or-die 8 ML, 115kph mech.

But, even before PGI turned one into a champion, and before the current LRM changes, I ran an AC20, 2 ML and a TAG on either of the other two to great effect.

And yes...PLAY in the mechlab...let Smurfy's suck away your workday.

Hit up www.mechspecs.com to get your creative juices flowing. Find something that looks interesting and improve on it.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 21 March 2014 - 08:07 AM.

[Fut]

Bigbacon, on 19 March 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

So as a new player to this game (but not the MW universe), you sure don't make me want to continue to play....

Missiles.....Getting hit from anywhere and everywhere. no line of sight, behind a tall structure and can still be constantly barraged until death...from 1000m away...unreal.. Makes starting out quite impossible at times.

You have no idea how unbelievable this comment is.
If this is actually happening, there may be no hope for you in this game. Which is terrible, because it's actually a very fun game to play.

[ZeProme]

Fut, on 21 March 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

You have no idea how unbelievable this comment is.
If this is actually happening, there may be no hope for you in this game. Which is terrible, because it's actually a very fun game to play.

ROFL. I just noticed as well.

OP, I recommend you read the game mechanics thoroughly to help you gain a better grasp of this game. Drop more often, preferably with people with decent/veteran experiences to help you. The game is fun so don't diss it by first impressions.

If something is wrong, it's usually PBKAC meaning "Problem Between Keyboard And Chair". Don't take it offensively, I'm just saying.

Edited by ZeProme, 21 March 2014 - 08:15 AM.

[Bigbacon]

Fut, on 21 March 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

You have no idea how unbelievable this comment is.
If this is actually happening, there may be no hope for you in this game. Which is terrible, because it's actually a very fun game to play.

I'm telling you this was happening...I forget the map but missiles being fired from the same level as my mech, were hitting me while behind a tall structure (building) from over top of the building, not around the sides. 1000m was an exaggeration but it was happening. they would go up and over the entire building and there is nothing I could do to get away. moving from cover to cover putting distance between me and them, doesn't fix it.

Its pretty random at time. The one round I play today, I could move from cover to cover and the missile would impact the cover or stop but other times they just don't. I honestly never try to stand in the open because missiles or no missiles, it is a death sentence (assuming anyone is in range to see or target you.

Edited by Bigbacon, 21 March 2014 - 08:23 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

I can't discount the story entirely...as I've seen a number of missiles 'ghosting' through cover on River City. Do your best to find cover, and make note of where it doesn't. Submit a ticket after hitting F9 for exact positioning.

[Xoxim SC]

Bigbacon, on 19 March 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

No way to free build a mech to test using all available options. I'd like to be able to try mechs and build load outs without spending real or fake monies... let me build, see how much it will cost, test it in the test arena and then I can decide to spend or save.

I've been suggesting this since closed beta, and they REFUSE to budge.

Edited by Todd Lightbringer, 21 March 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Bigbacon, on 21 March 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

i'm going to play with the mech lab, even the base Jager seems like a good start

kind of looking at the Blackjack also...seems to have a bunch of decent variants that could fulfill what I'm looking for.

The medium mechs can shine in this game right now, but with the LRM's well bad timing for the change. NARC got a buff, and LRM speed. So everyone had to try them and we have a champion stalker LRM boat as a trial mech to magnify it.

People that played before ECM was activated know how to hug the terrain, and prevent being spotted or if spotted and fired upon, how to move in a different direction so that if the missiles loose lock, they will travel away from you.

Just remember, this makes people that know how to run LRM boats that much more dangerous.

If someone is lobbing LRMs at 900m or we let them keep lock due to being under cover (bridges work wonders), they will just waste ammo. I will admit it, I have allowed a raven to TAG and NARC me so that I could draw fire and let the LRM's hit buildings or bridges between us. Grinded all the way through it too, all 3 minutes of it. Then I came out with LRMs and got three quick kills on LRM boats that had no more ammunition. Why I did not kill the Raven, he was helping me draw thousands of missiles from the other team. I would call him our 13 man for that match.

the Jager A is a good mech to learn on. You can go auto cannons in each arm. You can boat LRMs, SRM's or SSRM's. It is one of the most adaptable platforms out there. Of course I like the Firebrand with 6 SPL's, and 2 MG's with a 340 standard engine.

4 x LRM 15 with TAG and one ML. I think a 210 XL. This is the one I have had fun on with 60 LRMs hitting at once.

2x LRM 15's, 2x LRM 5's, 2x MG, TAG and ML. Good LRM build and MG's for some reason make lights nervous about being legged.

you have the two AC 20's

you can mix AC's, 4 x LRM 5's and some lasers.

You can run with 4 SRM 6's with pulse lasers and MG's.

Or run with 2 AC 5's, 4 SSRM's and lasers.

[Enigmos]

Streaks and SRM slamming into you can sound and look a lot like LRMs. Keep an eye out for enemy mechs nearby who spot you, fire their load of missiles, and duck out of sight.

If a tactic works on you, use it on them. That's how we all learned.

[p4r4g0n]

A clarification on engine size and heat sinks.

For every increment of 25 in engine size, you get an additional heat sink that is automatically installed with the engine and therefore does not require any critical slots or tonnage. Once you go past the 250 engine, each additional 25 allows you to slot an additional heat sink but will require 1 ton / heatsink but no critical slots.

This aspect of engines & built in heatsinks can be a factor in your build. Sometimes it is better to give up a ton or two for a bigger engine to free up critical slots and vice versa.

[Kjudoon]

The larger the engine, the more able it is to keep the pre-requisite 10 Heatsinks inside it's mass. That is why every 25 points on an engine, you gain one heatsink of space up to the 400 which carries an astounding 5 extra heatsinks in it for zero slots! (Always put engine heat sinks in last because the tonnage still effects the dynamic armor/structure).

I know you aren't a fan of missiles, but consider this. LRMs counter poptarts and poptarts counter LRMs. Use 5-10 tubes to get those turkeys to duck back and if you're fast enough get inside to fight them. This tactic works pretty darn well actually. LRMs are forgiving weapons too. Yes you have to aim, just not as finely as direct fire weapons. You also have to learn patience to stay focused on your target as well as situational awareness to know when to run. The Jager A can do a really mean balanced brawler. If you load up with SRMs or streaks because you don't want the LRMs you become a very dangerous short range mech. That's why no smart pilot will let you close because you play too rough when you get in there.

Anyway, have fun.

[Voivode]

Macksheen, on 19 March 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

Run that Stalker trial mech a few times and see how easily folks block the LRMs, then do the same. The trick isn't cover - it's sufficiently tall cover ... and/or moving. Moving at a moderate speed perpendicular or at crazy speed any direction generally avoids. Also, breaking your target helps too - not just cover, but out-of-sight from whoever is targeting you. Break that target lock.

When I started I got eaten alive with LRMs. They lock on? AWESOME! First mech I bought was a missile boat - and then I learned (painfully) how easy they are to avoid. I also learned how to better use them, so that was good - but now I rarely run LRMs - just not reliable enough.

As it is now, I rarely get killed by LRMs ... and when I do I can usually pinpoint the action or actions I took that over-exposed me where I essentially killed myself.

This is a fantastic idea. If you ever find yourself struggling against a build or weapon in this game, try running that build or weapon to find its ins and outs. Once you understand how to use the weapon, you will understand how to protect yourself from it.

Bigbacon, on 21 March 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

I'm telling you this was happening...I forget the map but missiles being fired from the same level as my mech, were hitting me while behind a tall structure (building) from over top of the building, not around the sides. 1000m was an exaggeration but it was happening. they would go up and over the entire building and there is nothing I could do to get away. moving from cover to cover putting distance between me and them, doesn't fix it.

Its pretty random at time. The one round I play today, I could move from cover to cover and the missile would impact the cover or stop but other times they just don't. I honestly never try to stand in the open because missiles or no missiles, it is a death sentence (assuming anyone is in range to see or target you.

You may have been taking fire from a second LRM boat. When under LRM fire things can get confusing pretty quickly. As you play you'll get the hang of telling if you have LRMs from a multiple angles, which is a seriously dangerous situation and one that even an expert player will struggle to survive.

[Kraven Kor]

Bigbacon, on 21 March 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

I'm telling you this was happening...I forget the map but missiles being fired from the same level as my mech, were hitting me while behind a tall structure (building) from over top of the building, not around the sides. 1000m was an exaggeration but it was happening. they would go up and over the entire building and there is nothing I could do to get away. moving from cover to cover putting distance between me and them, doesn't fix it.

Its pretty random at time. The one round I play today, I could move from cover to cover and the missile would impact the cover or stop but other times they just don't. I honestly never try to stand in the open because missiles or no missiles, it is a death sentence (assuming anyone is in range to see or target you.

You were being spotted and the LRM's with Artemis are way better at going over tall cover.

It sucks, but find the spotter, basically.

I've died to LRM's entirely too much the last few days, but I'm not ready to call it a "bad change" - just have to see how things shake out. I do know that playing "oh god hide from LRM death" is a bit frustrating for me, given my preference for lasers and AC's. Just about anything other than fast, hit-and-run style mechs are not working for me right now. Played around with LRM's a bit myself and just did stupid amounts of damage almost every round; 3-4 kills, 400-500 damage, other than a few where a pack of lights found me.

[AlmightyAeng]

Kraven Kor, on 21 March 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

You were being spotted and the LRM's with Artemis are way better at going over tall cover.

It sucks, but find the spotter, basically.

I've died to LRM's entirely too much the last few days, but I'm not ready to call it a "bad change" - just have to see how things shake out. I do know that playing "oh god hide from LRM death" is a bit frustrating for me, given my preference for lasers and AC's. Just about anything other than fast, hit-and-run style mechs are not working for me right now. Played around with LRM's a bit myself and just did stupid amounts of damage almost every round; 3-4 kills, 400-500 damage, other than a few where a pack of lights found me.

Interesting....fast 'hit-and-run' mechs (lights, mediums) have actually been harder for me. Those legs...need more armor they do, says MechaYoda. My heavy strikers go around 80-85 kph...and I'm having the best luck with those and brawling assaults.

[Buzzkillin]

Bigbacon, on 21 March 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

i'm going to play with the mech lab, even the base Jager seems like a good start

kind of looking at the Blackjack also...seems to have a bunch of decent variants that could fulfill what I'm looking for.

Here's my Black jack build if you are interested in one BJ-1

I run it as a fire support, and it acts like a "mini Jaeger." You can adjust it to use XLs but everyone has different experience with them. I tend to to lose my side torsos often so I am glad I don't use a XL engine. It's not a fast mech but when ignored you can do a lot of damage.

[Kjudoon]

Bigbacon, on 21 March 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

I'm telling you this was happening...I forget the map but missiles being fired from the same level as my mech, were hitting me while behind a tall structure (building) from over top of the building, not around the sides. 1000m was an exaggeration but it was happening. they would go up and over the entire building and there is nothing I could do to get away. moving from cover to cover putting distance between me and them, doesn't fix it.

Its pretty random at time. The one round I play today, I could move from cover to cover and the missile would impact the cover or stop but other times they just don't. I honestly never try to stand in the open because missiles or no missiles, it is a death sentence (assuming anyone is in range to see or target you.

Spotters will adjust the flight path sometimes to get over a target. TAG seems to improve that, but this is totally annecdotal observation, not hard proof. Also, there is a method to do this that PGI censors if it's even brought up because it is not possible to happen here... supposedly... but it does, and it is a violation of TOS. Those are the only two options of how what you experience happened that I know.

Unless you misread your death sheet, and missed some ECM raven with double ERLL who got a lucky shot you never saw. That has happened to me too.

[Jon Gotham]

Bigbacon, on 21 March 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

I'm telling you this was happening...I forget the map but missiles being fired from the same level as my mech, were hitting me while behind a tall structure (building) from over top of the building, not around the sides. 1000m was an exaggeration but it was happening. they would go up and over the entire building and there is nothing I could do to get away. moving from cover to cover putting distance between me and them, doesn't fix it.

Its pretty random at time. The one round I play today, I could move from cover to cover and the missile would impact the cover or stop but other times they just don't. I honestly never try to stand in the open because missiles or no missiles, it is a death sentence (assuming anyone is in range to see or target you.

If you are getting hit behind cover, I'd say mostly that it is because a smart lrm users has moved and gained a new angle on you. Avoiding lrms (pre buff) was extremely easy and still fairly simple. You will get better at it with practice believe me. Also, try to watch were the lrm streams come from, you can then out yourself in a better position to defeat their firing arcs. I'd also suggest playing one-just to understand exactly how they work, you'd also see how those locks tend to last sub 1 second in the main.....
I'm exactly the same kind of player as you, I specialise in light mechs mostly with the odd medium. Learning to read the battle, positions of enemy mechs, where you can move and how deep you can go is a skill that takes quite a bit of time honestly. A good light pilot is not really a master of shooting or manouvering-he/she is a master of situational awareness.
That above all.
I would suggest having a look on youtube for light mech play videos and also, STAY in matches follow other light pilots. You will be amazed at the hints and tips you can pick up watching a good pilot play from their cockpit.

[HANGMAN1962]

hi bacen.
on the missile issue, are you playing a lot of assault mode?
as the enemy base's missile launchers inordanetely accurate even behind terrain.
also even if your behind something a scout may be to your left,right,backside that has you tagged,narced,or target locked too
hope this helps

sincerely the"hangman"

[Koniving]

Bigbacon, on 21 March 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

this is an odd question and i'm guess this has to do with balance? why is it that the smaller engines require you to carry so many more heatsinks than a large one?

My first assumption was that it was to offset people trying to toss light engines on mechs in order to lower their tons down, sometimes significantly.

This question doesn't appear to have been answered on the new page, so I will answer it for you. At some point PGI put in a requirement of 10 heatsinks to run the mech.

A 250-rated engine comes with 10 heatsinks built in. As you go up by 25 ratings (275, 300) you get additional built in slots to put in more heatsinks. As you go down by 25 ratings (225, 200), the number of heatsinks built into the engine lowers requiring you to add additional heatsinks elsewhere.

In closed beta you only had to have what came with the engine, and so if you ran a standard 200 you had 8 heatsinks (at the time doubles were not available) and people complained about barely being able to use the mech.

In MWO you have heatsinks raise both cooling rate and maximum threshold to shutdown. Where it was 60 for MW4, 30 for MW3, MWO has it with 10 standards "40" threshold, with 10 DHS "45 to 50 threshold" (depending on internal or external DHS), and it goes up from there. They felt 10 was a good minimum to have.