32 replies to this topic

[mexican BANANA]

This is my first post.

LRMs are freakin OVERKILL. There. Nailed it.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Wrong subforum.

[Dakkaface]

mexican BANANA, on 19 March 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

This is my first post.

LRMs are freakin OVERKILL. There. Nailed it.

Perhaps you should make this opinion known in say, one of the MWO discussion boards rather than in Battletech Discussion, which is about the tabletop game with the pewter & plastic miniatures, hex maps and where LRMs have not meaningfully changed since the 80's.

[Barkem Squirrel]

In December of 2012 ECM was activated and LRMs disappeared from the battle field. At that time it was LRM online.

Then in late February and March 2013 I started to run LRMs again, to some good effects, Not everyone was running ECM or AMS.

Then a month or two after that they changed the decent angle of the LRMs. That was the LRM Armageddon or apostolic. I think they change that in one or two days.

Now it is just bad timing. LRM Stalker trial mech, NARC buff. Then everyone having to try them out. Sure 40 or so missiles is one thing, but 200 will take you out quick. One thing about NARC, I have not seen this in the game more than a hand full of times before this.

Give the game a week or two to settle down, and we will see. People that normally run LRM boats will be way more effective, but we also will fight the way we have been. Others will keep firing at 900 m by indirect fire.

[Summon3r]

Quad lrm 15 boat for a trial mech. ... yea great idea. ... Not. ..... Not to mention buffing lrm for no good reason at all. Why did they need to be faster???

[Zuesacoatl]

Summon3r, on 19 March 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

Quad lrm 15 boat for a trial mech. ... yea great idea. ... Not. ..... Not to mention buffing lrm for no good reason at all. Why did they need to be faster???

Because lrms in the pre patch state were almost worthless. You could pretty much ignore betty as she told you about the incoming missles. Now, not so much. Now you need to worry about another weapon system. Adapt or die. Make room for 1.5 tons worth of ams and ammo, or learn to move under cover, use terrain, and all will be fine again. The only change from the patch is that lrms have become an actual weapon system, one that can no longer be ignored, ie, usefull.

[DeathlyEyes]

Zuesacoatl, on 19 March 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

Because lrms in the pre patch state were almost worthless. You could pretty much ignore betty as she told you about the incoming missles. Now, not so much. Now you need to worry about another weapon system. Adapt or die. Make room for 1.5 tons worth of ams and ammo, or learn to move under cover, use terrain, and all will be fine again. The only change from the patch is that lrms have become an actual weapon system, one that can no longer be ignored, ie, usefull.

You must not be using LRMs properly. With proper support they worked fine prepatch, here is a perfect example. The highlander and A1 were both LRM boats and top damaged. Terrain cover doesn't help on a map that lacks it almost entirely such as caustic valley. Even on frozen city I had trouble dealing with LRMs in a shadowhawk moving 100kph with ams

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 19 March 2014 - 10:02 PM.

[Zuesacoatl]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 19 March 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

You must not be using LRMs properly. With proper support they worked fine prepatch, here is a perfect example. The highlander and A1 were both LRM boats and top damaged. Terrain cover doesn't help on a map that lacks it almost entirely such as caustic valley. Even on frozen city I had trouble dealing with LRMs in a shadowhawk moving 100kph with ams

Ohhhnoes......

here is an image of what 3x ac2 heat hogs can do. Your image is just one case out of the millions out there. I am not a top notch player, but I do consider myself a decent player, and in the decent player brackets, LRMs were pretty worthless. Sure, you had to worry about the group that knew how to use them every now and then, but other than that, 90% worthless.

Edit, sorry, that was my 2xac5 1erlrg YLW. But the point is, dmg is irelevant. On your image, the HGN had the highest dmg, no kills. In a higher elo bracket, that could have spelled a loss because tons of dmg spread over a bunch of components is worthles, unlike my posting where most of the dmg is focused into a few components, insuring either I will strip that mech of death dealing ability, or someone else will. Dmg is just the measure of ones epeen, and so is kills. Component destruction, and other bonuses such as spotting and what not, that is a mark of a good player. the only thing the HGN had going for it was the fact that he had a good number of assists, other than that, dmg is of little concern when you can drop a few hundred dmg on one mech and his overall armor is just starting to push yellow.

Edited by Zuesacoatl, 19 March 2014 - 10:11 PM.

[Zuesacoatl]

Here is one more for you, omg, we need to nerf the BLARGS....

[Ghostchips Condensate I and II]

Never did i worry much about LRMs unless there was someone with TAG & two stalkers around. Now i actually have to think & react before the missiles arrive, even started switching the engine off to break lock again. Seeing teamwork come back into fashion, seeing lances play specific roles rather than "rush the center & die as fast as you can", i like what i am seeing, for the most part. i am considering buying back my catapult now that LRMs are useful.
Not all bad.

Edited by Trashforged, 19 March 2014 - 11:26 PM.

[Adran]

Before the buff, LRMs were worthless. Now, the game is once more capable of becoming the game of Rock-Paper-Scissors that it should be. Right now, we have an LRM overload. It will be gone in 2 weeks tops. That's when the Launch Module comes in, and suddenly you can't have 12 Stalker teams anymore. If for whatever reason that ISN'T in the April 1st patch, it will be in the April 15th patch. The days of 300+ LRMs in the air at one time are limited at best. Then the game will hopefully settle into a new meta as the current meta is finally hit with a nuclear missile.

[ShinVector]

Barkem Squirrel, on 19 March 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Then a month or two after that they changed the decent angle of the LRMs. That was the LRM Armageddon or apostolic. I think they change that in one or two days.

That particular buff was given it own name... It was then called 'Orbital Strike!'

[DeathlyEyes]

Zuesacoatl, on 19 March 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

Ohhhnoes......

here is an image of what 3x ac2 heat hogs can do. Your image is just one case out of the millions out there. I am not a top notch player, but I do consider myself a decent player, and in the decent player brackets, LRMs were pretty worthless. Sure, you had to worry about the group that knew how to use them every now and then, but other than that, 90% worthless.

Edit, sorry, that was my 2xac5 1erlrg YLW. But the point is, dmg is irelevant. On your image, the HGN had the highest dmg, no kills. In a higher elo bracket, that could have spelled a loss because tons of dmg spread over a bunch of components is worthles, unlike my posting where most of the dmg is focused into a few components, insuring either I will strip that mech of death dealing ability, or someone else will. Dmg is just the measure of ones epeen, and so is kills. Component destruction, and other bonuses such as spotting and what not, that is a mark of a good player. the only thing the HGN had going for it was the fact that he had a good number of assists, other than that, dmg is of little concern when you can drop a few hundred dmg on one mech and his overall armor is just starting to push yellow.

We did this regularly against other top notch players. The way LRMs are suppose to work is that they are a support weapon not a primary weapon. They worked fine before and if you couldn't run them with your group then you were doing it wrong. We did this to several units repetitively. LRMs worked fine. This was overkill stop trying to defend it you seem like the only one defending it.

[wanderer]

Quote

The way LRMs are suppose to work is that they are a support weapon not a primary weapon. They worked fine before and if you couldn't run them with your group then you were doing it wrong. We did this to several units repetitively. LRMs worked fine. This was overkill stop trying to defend it you seem like the only one defending it.

Please, let me laugh more.

The reason LRMs worked well at the top? People stopped mounting AMS and even skimped on ECM. The teams that didn't laughed at your missiles and plowed you with dakkafests.

I'm in ELO Hell- basically, I tend to bounce back and forth at the boundary of "average player bucket" and "good player bucket".

Right now, I can tell when I'm "up" as suddenly, your LRM damage gets halved- because average players are still in shock that missiles actually can hurt, while good players are slapping AMS on and are vet enough to know what ECM + cover is for.

LRMs are still a "derp check". Teams that don't have missile defense wither, teams that do thrive. Players with terrain awareness don't get caught in the open- and don't STAND there - and have the patience to wear down ammo supplies and win.

[Joseph Mallan]

Summon3r, on 19 March 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

Quad lrm 15 boat for a trial mech. ... yea great idea. ... Not. ..... Not to mention buffing lrm for no good reason at all. Why did they need to be faster???

Cause Pop Tarts fall to fast for the Old missiles to hit them?

Zuesacoatl, on 19 March 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

Are you Kia and just buried the Falcon Guard?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 March 2014 - 06:00 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Zuesacoatl, on 19 March 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Here is one more for you, omg, we need to nerf the BLARGS....

This picture is interesting. 4 kills, 1 Assist, 1000 damage.

So you fought a total of 5 mechs and did 200 damage per mech. Seems like overkill if you are doing it properly.

Note the guy who had 3 kills, 5 assists and 630 damage.

That guy was probably doing it correctly.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 20 March 2014 - 06:19 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 March 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

Cause Pop Tarts fall to fast for the Old missiles to hit them?


Are you Kia and just buried the Falcon Guard?

Kai.

Kai is a prodigy the likes of which have never been seen in the Inner Sphere.

Kia is what Assault Mechs use to wipe their backsides with after a coolant flush.

[Willard Phule]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 March 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

This picture is interesting. 4 kills, 1 Assist, 1000 damage.

So you fought a total of 5 mechs and did 200 damage per mech. Seems like overkill if you are doing it properly.

Note the guy who had 3 kills, 5 assists and 630 damage.

That guy was properly doing it correctly.

But, you know, a lot of it depends on what it is you were trying to accomplish.

Were you trying to rack up cbills? Because all those assists and damage add up. 260k is a fairly decent match.

Was it a premade that was actually trying to win? Then spreading your damage out all over the place might not be the best option.

Me, since I pretty much drop solo all the time (straight into the Derp Elo bracket, I may add), I'm pretty much just in it for the almighty cbill. That's why most of my loadouts have some kind of LRM on them...and always have. That assist you get for popping him for 5 points of damage more than pays for the ammo you spent.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Willard Phule, on 20 March 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

But, you know, a lot of it depends on what it is you were trying to accomplish.

Were you trying to rack up cbills? Because all those assists and damage add up. 260k is a fairly decent match.

Was it a premade that was actually trying to win? Then spreading your damage out all over the place might not be the best option.

Me, since I pretty much drop solo all the time (straight into the Derp Elo bracket, I may add), I'm pretty much just in it for the almighty cbill. That's why most of my loadouts have some kind of LRM on them...and always have. That assist you get for popping him for 5 points of damage more than pays for the ammo you spent.

Yes, but point is, you can't determine anything by damage done. It's a stupid indicator.

If you end up with 1000 damage, and only fought 5 mechs, you weren't really using your weapons in a way that is optimized for actually killing your opponents.

Whereas a guy that has 500 damage, 4 kills and 8 assists is probably very good at the game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 March 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Yes, but point is, you can't determine anything by damage done. It's a stupid indicator.

If you end up with 1000 damage, and only fought 5 mechs, you weren't really using your weapons in a way that is optimized for actually killing your opponents.

Whereas a guy that has 500 damage, 4 kills and 8 assists is probably very good at the game.

1000 damage, 5 Mechs, 5 Assists.... Doing Fire Support correctly.