75 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

"The troll, do not feed." -Yoda

[PieRat]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

it does that and adds extra protection.

Besides over-pig headed overlords, i need some hard facts against what i said, rather than personal opinions.

Edited by PieRat, 20 March 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Unusual Suspect]

Honestly, at this point I'm almost convinced that Blood Wolf is a troll. And yet... and yet there are people out there that might conceivably stubbornly hold his views in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. There is that old maxim, after all... Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.

Frankly, I'm torn. So instead, I'm going to go get some popcorn, maybe smoke some [perfectly legal herbal product] in my [glass multi-chamber tobacco pipe], and watch the show.

[EyeOne]

Unusual Suspect, on 20 March 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

maybe smoke some [perfectly legal herbal product] in my [glass multi-chamber tobacco pipe], and watch the show.

Colorado?

[DEMAX51]

PieRat, on 20 March 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Dude, if I could have "liked" this post twice, I would have.

[Bishop Steiner]

EyeOne, on 20 March 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

Colorado?

SoCal, if it's "medicinal".

[Unusual Suspect]

EyeOne, on 20 March 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

Colorado?

Entertainingly, I was out there less than a week ago. In this case, I'm afraid this legality has to do with "poor health". Medicinal, if you will.

Edit: Bishop had it on the money.

Edited by Unusual Suspect, 20 March 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

yea, that's some buddies said, and i admit that i put it on my locust but i decided that i will run it on my banshee.

I know endo is preferred because it frees up tonnage but FF provides extra protection.

I never said anything other than it adds, extra protection. .......................wow, man, you guys are a nasty bunch of people

[DEMAX51]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

I never said anything other than it adds, extra protection. .......................wow, man, you guys are a nasty bunch of people

Because it doesn't "add extra protection," and you're lending credence to a misunderstanding that could affect other people. You have to say it "adds extra protection PER TON OF ARMOR" or else the point is lost. Those are four very important words when describing the functionality of Ferro, and leaving them out opens the door for incorrect interpretations of the mechanic.

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

Besides over-pig headed overlords, i need some hard facts against what i said, rather than personal opinions.

And we're being nasty? You're the one who called us "over-pig headed overlords."

[BLOOD WOLF]

DEMAX51, on 20 March 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Because it doesn't "add extra protection," and you're lending credence to a misunderstanding that could affect other people. You have to say it "adds extra protection PER TON OF ARMOR" or else the point is lost. Those are four very important words when describing the functionality of Ferro, and leaving them out opens the door for incorrect interpretations of the mechanic.

oh yea, per ton of amour, gotcha, well anyways, this was just a post to see who ran it, i don't know the wicked players of the west decided they needed to come out.

I have to ask, does the founders and legendary tag make a person more hostile or can we just take it down a notch?

[verybad]

Only way they are going to make mroe people run FF is if they make it reduce damage a bit (so you can have higher overall armor)

As is, it's just on lights because...why not? It's less useful than single heat sinks.

[DEMAX51]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

oh yea, per ton of amour, gotcha, well anyways, this was just a post to see who ran it, i don't know the wicked players of the west decided they needed to come out.

I have to ask, does the founders and legendary tag make a person more hostile or can we just take it down a notch?

The only thing that make me hostile are people who are willfully ignorant.

And to answer your original question: I use it on some 'Mechs if I have the crit slots for it, but I always take Endo first because it gives a bigger bonus to weight savings (which is the only thing either of the upgrades actually does).

Edited by DEMAX51, 20 March 2014 - 10:02 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

DEMAX51, on 20 March 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

The only thing that make me hostile are people who are willfully ignorant.

And to answer your original question: I use it on some 'Mechs if I have the crit slots for it, but I always take Endo first because it gives a bigger bonus to weight savings (which is the only thing either of the upgrades actually does).

I have to agree with you.

[Unusual Suspect]

I've only used it on light mechs and possibly one or two mediums. It is, in all ways, worse than Endo-steel, and even that isn't an auto-include for heavies, let alone assaults.

[Bishop Steiner]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

oh yea, per ton of amour, gotcha, well anyways, this was just a post to see who ran it, i don't know the wicked players of the west decided they needed to come out.

I have to ask, does the founders and legendary tag make a person more hostile or can we just take it down a notch?

de-escalation requires cessation of hostilities on both parts. Would suggest the one calling others pig-headed check the mirror first. Once that is accomplished, then yes, intelligent discussion can always be achieved.

Ferro is always second fiddle to endo, but there are builds where endo doesn't work (such as having the 14 crits, but not any more, you can't use the saved tonnage at that point. There Ferro has occasionally been more useful. And of course, yes, Lights running both.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 March 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[Unusual Suspect]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

de-escalation requires cessation of hostilities on both parts. Would suggest the one calling others pig-headed check the mirror first. Once that is accomplished, then yes, intelligent discussion can always be achieved.

Ferro is always second fiddle to endo, but there are builds where endo doesn't work (such as having the 14 crits, but not any more, you can't use the saved tonnage at that point. There Ferro has occasionally been more useful. And of course, yes, Lights running both.

I think you mean to say that Ferro is simply no LESS useful than Endo in that case. Both Ferro and Endo take up the 14 crit spots, and I don't recall any penalties for starting a match under weight.

Edit: Unless you were referring to the difference in cost? I suppose that could make Ferro a "better" choice in a strict sense. Very rare situation, though, and if you ever plan on changing your build, Endo is the better choice long-term and in almost all cases.

Edited by Unusual Suspect, 20 March 2014 - 10:13 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

de-escalation requires cessation of hostilities on both parts. Would suggest the one calling others pig-headed check the mirror first. Once that is accomplished, then yes, intelligent discussion can always be achieved.

Ferro is always second fiddle to endo, but there are builds where endo doesn't work (such as having the 14 crits, but not any more, you can't use the saved tonnage at that point. There Ferro has occasionally been more useful. And of course, yes, Lights running both.

pig headed i think was a good enough term, it means stubborn. All i kept saying was that add protection in every post and yet i was received poorly repeatedly, So you can say they were stubborn (having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something) to change their tone. I'm talking more about ones attitude but i will say no more on the matter.

I sent russ a tweet and asked if FF will ever be incorporated the way its supposed to but at the same time will IS mechs even be able to take full advantage because it just takes up too much space. As i see it there are better FF technologies out their but based on the timeline i don't know if we will get something better

[EyeOne]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

oh yea, per ton of amour, gotcha, well anyways, this was just a post to see who ran it, i don't know the wicked players of the west decided they needed to come out.

I have to ask, does the founders and legendary tag make a person more hostile or can we just take it down a notch?

I don't think anyone was being nasty, we were simply trying to help correct a pretty common misconception about FF armor. Apologies if it came across that way.

To answer the original question: I use Endo + FF on most of my lights. There are a few mediums where it is appropriate like a Centurion or a Hunchback (something with whole armor sections with no hardpoints). But that's about as high as I go. I never use FF without already having Endo Steel. It CAN be used on heavier mechs but that is pretty rare.

[Bishop Steiner]

Unusual Suspect, on 20 March 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

I think you mean to say that Ferro is simply no LESS useful than Endo in that case. Both Ferro and Endo take up the 14 crit spots, and I don't recall any penalties for starting a match under weight.

Edit: Unless you were referring to the difference in cost? I suppose that could make Ferro a "better" choice in a strict sense. Very rare situation, though, and if you ever plan on changing your build, Endo is the better choice long-term and in almost all cases.

seems silly to start underweight. Saving 4 tons, but having no crits to use it is pointless, whereas, it might be what allows you to max armor that same build. Yes, you could also up armor with straight tonnage with Endo, but at a much higher cost. It is simply inefficient design. I can see your point about switching builds, but I tend to do my build hopping in Smurfy, and stick pretty much with what I design in actual practice. I only build hop when the nerf Yoyo makes a design less viable.

[TercieI]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

Ferro is always second fiddle to endo, but there are builds where endo doesn't work (such as having the 14 crits, but not any more, you can't use the saved tonnage at that point. There Ferro has occasionally been more useful. And of course, yes, Lights running both.

I may be missing something, but wouldn't they still be equally useful, FF would just be cheaper? I've come across a couple of these builds and I've gone ES anyway because it has more potential for future builds.