47 replies to this topic

[Fat Weasel]

Hello, I have been playing for a week or so and have gotten through the cadet bits n bobs and with the help of a bundle now have 2 ravens a x4 and an x2 nothing wrong with them up to now ... I have been getting around 300 points a match on occasions 500. I'm happy with this. But all of a sudden I can't do more than 200 points of damage without blowing up due to missiles nothing on my side of the game has changed both mechs have ams . Am I missing something fundamental to do with missiles ? When I get the warning I duck out of the way and the usual stuff, but my success rate is falling fast ! I am starting to get really frustrated.

[Dunning Kruger Effect]

LRMs seem really popular of late (since the trial Stalker) and I believe they have been buffed (they fly faster).

I've definitely noticed a MAJOR increase in missiles (LRMs specifically) - I may remember nostaglically but a few months back there would be a best 1-2 LRM boats per team - sometimes none. Now it seems there is usually 3-4 per team.

This is purely "opinion" as I'm not aware of any stats page to support this.

[Egomane]

Missles got a buff with the patch last tuesday.

Before the patch a light mech had little problems evading the missles due to it's speed. Now the missles got faster and therefore the near immunity to them, that the fast light enjoyed, is gone. If you want to avoid them, you should try to avoid open terrain and always be on the lookout for cover.

One of your problems may also be, that there are currently more mechs with LRMs on the battlefield, because the players are testing out, how the buff changed their effectivness. Give it a few more days and it will normalize itself. It already started to get less.

[Jody Von Jedi]

FW, The game is going through the changes made to LRMs right now. Every time there is a weapon change, either a buff or a nerf, some will try to squeeze every drop out of the change they can. Right now the the buff to LRM speed has caused those that have LRM heavy loadouts to start running those chassis again.

Be patient, the game will continue to evolve. A new chassis variant, hero mech can swing things back in your favor. Just roll with it.

Sounds like you're doing things correctly, staying in cover, running AMS. Try to stay in a pack with teammates with AMS too. That will decrease the LRM spam effectiveness.

Jody

[z3a1ot]

Since the last patch LRMs had a big buff in speed from 120 m/s to 175 m/s and there is an big increase of lrm boats around due to this change. You will have to be more carefull now, try to move around places u can hide fast.

[Mott]

Missiles have a slight speed buff (not the cause of your problem) and so TONS of people are using them again (the cause of your problem).

Drop some tonnage and increase engine size to get into cover faster... and change your playstyle for a bit to not get targeted quite as often.

I find reversing speed when i get the missile lock notice and then a really fast torso twist when the missiles are about 200ms out allows me to avoid 70%+ of missiles in my larger/slower meds & heavies. Your raven should have no problem.

[Daggett]

This is because LRMs have been buffed and everyone is trying them out right now making it hard to not get hit by them.

But LRMs are getting boring quite fast in my opinion and in the next few weeks players will probably use them less.

Edit:
Oh, and buy yourself a Raven 3L. Not only will it allow you to master your other Ravens, it's ECM will greatly help you and your team to screw all those Missile Boats

Edited by Daggett, 21 March 2014 - 07:06 AM.

[Voivode]

Well, two things have happened.

1) Your ELO has risen. This is a metric PGI keeps that attempts to objectively assess how valuable a given player is to their team. Since you've been getting decent damage, yours has probably steadily risen and you are being matched against better players. Congrats.

2) LRMs just got a speed buff, making them more effective. Lots of people are using them now, though the numbers per match are tapering down as the novelty wears off, so hang in there.


Here are a few suggestions for dealing with LRM mechs.

1) Not all cover is equal. LRMs are meant to have an indirect fire component to them. Steeper cover (think cliff face) is better cover.

2) LRMs are faster, so keep the cover closer. This is pure situational awareness. MWO is more tactical than a lot of other FPS games. Always know where your cover is and don't wander too far.

3) LRMs don't work under 180meters. If an LRM boat is close sometimes the best tactic is to rush them. Keep in mind, if that LRM boat has friends with direct fire weapons the rush won't stop their damage from pouring forth. But at the very least, you can fight the direct fire mechs without worrying about that LRM boats missiles.

4) AMS offers limited protection. One AMS reduces damage from LRMs, it doesn't mitigate the entire volley. Massed AMS can destroy large volleys, so sticking with the blue triangles will help. Your AMS will help them, their AMS will help you.

5) ECM is a powerful LRM counter. When you can, purchase the Raven 3L and equip ECM on it. Otherwise, try to stick with a light/medium (Cicada 3M) that has ECM to help protect from the LRMs

Good luck, and see you on the battlefield!

Edited by Voivode, 21 March 2014 - 07:09 AM.

[Furiel]

I don't think it's just the LRM buffs, but also the trial mech achievement that has been contributing to LRM-aggeddon. I have been seeing 2-3 trial Stalkers per match the last couple days which I assume are people who are trying to both try out the LRM buffs and also get the achieve at the same time. Which means that as others have said, things should normalize in a few days as people get their 5 trial wins and go back to the regular mechs.

[DEMAX51]

Voivode, on 21 March 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

1) Your ELO has risen. This is a metric PGI keeps that attempts to objectively assess how valuable a given player is to their team. Since you've been getting decent damage, yours has probably steadily risen and you are being matched against better players. Congrats.

Just a quick point of fact: though the OP's Elo probably has risen, making it more likely he'll face opponents of a generally higher skill level, your individual performance in any given game (such as damage number, or kills, or assists...) don't affect your Elo score at all. The only stats that affects Elo are wins and losses.

Win against a team whose average Elo is lower than your team's average Elo (meaning, your team is the favorite in a match), and you'll get a small bump to your own Elo.

Win against a team whose average Elo is higher tha your team's average Elo (meaning your team is the underdog), and you'll get a much bigger bump to your own Elo.

The same (but opposite) holds true for losses - lose against a better team and your Elo takes a slight hit, lose against an inferior team and your Elo will take a more significant hit.

Edited by DEMAX51, 21 March 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[PieRat]

If you like running lights. May I suggest the Raven 3L, and the Spider 5D. They can carry ECM. While not fool proof they will also help you avoid being targeted a lot for the missle slingers. Just becareful of enemy mechs running tag and narc, and / or jamming your ECM(which you can do the same to them as well).

[Koniving]

Equip AMS. When I use a Raven 3-L I equip both AMS and ECM.

But as a counter to missiles, here's what I've been doing in my slow Jenner (90 kph).

First I analyze where the missiles are coming from and who they are after. I wait for them to get busy. When they are busy bombarding someone else, they won't be looking out somewhere else. That's when I make my move. A single slow moving object the size of a Jenner is very hard to see unless it moves fast. Truth be told I sneak out at 45 kph or less. When I'm spotted I punch it to the full 97 kph and find the nearest piece of tall cover.

Note that cover doesn't last forever, if you don't relocate you will be hit eventually.

Ultimately, the enemy must die. The LRM boat must die. Someone has to do it. And if no one does it, you will lose. To me, that means I need to step up and kill them. To you, that means you may need to step up and kill them. Find an isolated missile boat and attack it.

[Modo44]

It is very simple: Learn to hug the friggin' boats. AMS is good, using cover is good, but they are only means to an end, not indefinite protection.

[Kjudoon]

Fat Weasel, on 21 March 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Hello, I have been playing for a week or so and have gotten through the cadet bits n bobs and with the help of a bundle now have 2 ravens a x4 and an x2 nothing wrong with them up to now ... I have been getting around 300 points a match on occasions 500. I'm happy with this. But all of a sudden I can't do more than 200 points of damage without blowing up due to missiles nothing on my side of the game has changed both mechs have ams . Am I missing something fundamental to do with missiles ? When I get the warning I duck out of the way and the usual stuff, but my success rate is falling fast ! I am starting to get really frustrated.

Congrats! You've gone up in your Elo and are now facing tougher pilots! Don't worry, we've all been there. I sometimes will have 1-2 weeks solid where I can't crack 350 damage and trickle in a kill of 1-2 mechs at best. But then... THEN!... you have the game that makes life all better. 5-6 kills 975 damage... componants raining down like skittles from a rainbow... oh it's just marvelous... then back into the grind.

Want to make the grind better? Join a group. There are so many people recruiting out there to play in pugs or in competative play. I'm serious though, join a unit and learn to love the game again as it can be played the way MW SHOULD be played. Seraphim's recruiting. All the clans and factions are recruiting. Find one that matches your need or put your info out on the hiring hall and find out how much love you can get.

As for gameplay, this ain't Virtua Fighter or Call of Doody. You can't just show off your impressive sword or chest and win. There are some real world things you need to keep in mind, and #1 with a PPC is act like getting shot will kill you. It's more towards World Of Tanks in that regard where getting seen first usually gets you dead quick. Start playing that way and you will get even better, more survivable. Playing smart is better than being a twitch munchkin going 'mech SMASH'. Be a student of the game and watch videos on how excellent players play.

This game is rough on new players because most don't realize all that goes into it. that's why I always say #1, get in a group. From there, EZPZ.

Good luck.

[Kjudoon]

Oh and I'll even pimp Koniving's videos. They are excellent. One of these days, when I have a FPS over that of an epileptic snail, I'll have to drop with him.

[Fut]

DEMAX51, on 21 March 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Just a quick point of fact: though the OP's Elo probably has risen, making it more likely he'll face opponents of a generally higher skill level, your individual performance in any given game (such as damage number, or kills, or assists...) don't affect your Elo score at all. The only stat that affects Elo is wins/losses.

Win against a team whose average Elo is lower than your team's average Elo (meaning, your team is the favorite in a match), and you'll get a small bump to your own Elo.

Win against a team whose average Elo is higher tha your team's average Elo (meaning your team is the underdog), and you'll get a much bigger bump to your own Elo.

The same (but opposite) holds true for losses - lose against a better team and your Elo takes a slight hit, lose against an inferior team and your Elo will take a more significant hit.

Is this true?
Doesn't the MatchMaker attempt to give us all a win-loss ratio of 1:1 - and wouldn't this mean we're all in the same ELO bracket?

[Void Angel]

Fat Weasel, on 21 March 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Hello, I have been playing for a week or so and have gotten through the cadet bits n bobs and with the help of a bundle now have 2 ravens a x4 and an x2 nothing wrong with them up to now ... I have been getting around 300 points a match on occasions 500. I'm happy with this. But all of a sudden I can't do more than 200 points of damage without blowing up due to missiles nothing on my side of the game has changed both mechs have ams . Am I missing something fundamental to do with missiles ? When I get the warning I duck out of the way and the usual stuff, but my success rate is falling fast ! I am starting to get really frustrated.

Dunning Kruger Effect, on 21 March 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

LRMs seem really popular of late (since the trial Stalker) and I believe they have been buffed (they fly faster).

I've definitely noticed a MAJOR increase in missiles (LRMs specifically) - I may remember nostaglically but a few months back there would be a best 1-2 LRM boats per team - sometimes none. Now it seems there is usually 3-4 per team.

This is purely "opinion" as I'm not aware of any stats page to support this.

Like Voivode and a couple of others have pointed out, your Elo (it's not an acronym) has probably risen, causing you to fight players who are better than those who came before - and of course LRMS got a speed boost of almost 50%. Always track the patch notes; it's worth the read.

Another factor that hasn't been menioned yet is the buff to NARC beacons. Some much-needed love was given to that weapon system, removing limitations and adding functions like ECM countering. This means that a Raven can run by your D-DC and slap a NARC beacon on him, and for the next half-minute, he gets to hide behind a rock to avoid the LRM rain - if he can.

Especially if your Elo is consistent with being a relatively new player, you're going to see a LOT of people simply not know how to fight LRMs. I understand there was a No Guts, No Galaxy podcast interview where they explained that they're trying to break up the previous meta's long-range focus with the LRM change. Basically, both snipers (including jump snipers) and direct-fire dakka builds were pushing brawlers off the battlefield, since both excelled at punishing brawlers who were trying to move up to engage. So the LRM buff is aimed at dakka (rapid-fire autocannon) and laser builds who need to be in line of sight to engage - LRMs excel at suppressing these 'mechs. With the speed increase, a dakkamech can no longer deal significant damage to the LRM boat in a duel, then comfortably trundle back behind his favorite rock to avoid the LRM boat's return fire.

This has fundamentally altered the balance of poweer on the battlefield, and as of last night (I haven't logged in yet today) there was still a lot of chaos. The change makes the balance between snipers, dakka, scouts, brawlers, and LRMs more "rock-paper-scissors," and less "rock-paper-SHOTGUN!" than it was before, which is good. Whether or not the buff was too much remains to be seen - only time will tell.

What this means for you is that you will have to be more aware of things you haven't had to worry about so much before: the location of hard cover (breaking LoS won't cut it if you're NARC'd) from LRMs; watching the flanks for light spotters; movement to (and through) cover of brawlers who now have teammates to suppress the dakkamechs so they can move. Study the game, try to analyze your defeats, and remember that sometimes, feldercarb just happens - the game's dynamics tend to encourage lopsided kill counts (12-3, etc) and games are often closer than the final score might indicate.

[DEMAX51]

Fut, on 21 March 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

Is this true?
Doesn't the MatchMaker attempt to give us all a win-loss ratio of 1:1 - and wouldn't this mean we're all in the same ELO bracket?

I suppose my phrasing wasn't exactly great - Elo doesn't rely on your win/loss ratio. just wins and losses in general. I think the rest of my post above does a pretty good job of describing it.

But yes - no other stats than wins and losses affect Elo. Your "match score," damage numbers, kills... none of it affects Elo.

Edit: I've edited my post above to say "wins and losses" rather than "wins/losses." Thanks for pointing it out, Fut, because that was poorly worded.

Edited by DEMAX51, 21 March 2014 - 12:10 PM.

[Void Angel]

Fut, on 21 March 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

Is this true?
Doesn't the MatchMaker attempt to give us all a win-loss ratio of 1:1 - and wouldn't this mean we're all in the same ELO bracket?

No, though I see what you're thinking. ANY Elo system attempts to give us a 1.0 win/loss ratio, but it does so by pairing you with other players of equal rating, and adjusting the gain or loss of rating based on relative ranks. So if I, as an 0800-ranked player (I have it on good authority that I must be very bad; forum posters have told me so!) go up against a 1600-ranked player and win, I'll gain a lot of Elo (and he'll lose more, too,) while if he beats me, he may gain little or no ranking (and I'll lose a similar amount.) Furthermore, players at different levels of skill can often be grouped demographically according to what practices they employ, such as sticking together, focusing their fire, and not chasing light 'mechs all over Creation. For an extra-game example, consider that higher-level players in League of Legends usually seek to consistantly ward their areas of responsibility, while new players often consider wards to be "someone else's job."

What all this means is that players can be grouped meaningfully into different brackets, and that if I really am an 0800-level player, I am sadly going to stay there over time unless I improve. =)

Edited by Void Angel, 21 March 2014 - 12:11 PM.

[Corusmaximus]

the Blue Star Irregulars would be happy to show you the ropes. We'll get that k/d to 3.0 or die try'in. (probably the latter)
http://blue-star-irr....enjin.com/home