114 replies to this topic

[Artgathan]

I don't understand this mentality:

PPC: 10 Pinpoint Damage, Fire and Forget, 1500m/s, 7 tons
LRM10 + 2 Tons Ammo: 11 Scatter Damage, Must Maintain a lock, 170m/s, 7 tons

Why do people feel that they should be able to avoid the LRM10? It's "equivalent" (ish) to the PPC. If you're in open ground, running to cover, and someone fires both of these at you the main difference is when they hit - the PPC hits pretty much instantly, the LRM hits a few seconds later (potentially after you've made it behind cover). Why should you be able to dodge one, but not the other?

[PhoenixFire55]

Artgathan, on 27 March 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:

I don't understand this mentality:

PPC: 10 Pinpoint Damage, Fire and Forget, 1500m/s, 7 tons
LRM10 + 2 Tons Ammo: 11 Scatter Damage, Must Maintain a lock, 170m/s, 7 tons

Why do people feel that they should be able to avoid the LRM10? It's "equivalent" (ish) to the PPC. If you're in open ground, running to cover, and someone fires both of these at you the main difference is when they hit - the PPC hits pretty much instantly, the LRM hits a few seconds later (potentially after you've made it behind cover). Why should you be able to dodge one, but not the other?

You can dodge both. Also there is a little detail you forgot ... you have to actually AIM your PPC, and you can't fire your PPC over hills and buildings.

[Joseph Mallan]

PhoenixFire55, on 27 March 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

You can dodge both. Also there is a little detail you forgot ... you have to actually AIM your PPC, and you can't fire your PPC over hills and buildings.

I cant do that with LRMs unless I have/had eyes on you to start. IF Metal Rain is killing you behind cover... look for an enemy spotter!

[PhoenixFire55]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 March 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

I cant do that with LRMs unless I have/had eyes on you to start. IF Metal Rain is killing you behind cover... look for an enemy spotter!

Yeah, but thats the point. LRMs are called useless only by people who PUG and don't get any locks from 800m out. If you actually get your own locks you'll hit everything 120m/s or 175m/s doesn't matter. And in group with a good spotter it doesn't matter either, 120m/s will get there and kill stuff. Current speed increase is nothing but noobs buff.

[Joseph Mallan]

PhoenixFire55, on 27 March 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

Yeah, but thats the point. LRMs are called useless only by people who PUG and don't get any locks from 800m out. If you actually get your own locks you'll hit everything 120m/s or 175m/s doesn't matter. And in group with a good spotter it doesn't matter either, 120m/s will get there and kill stuff. Current speed increase is nothing but noobs buff.

Current speed Buff makes it so Missiles can hit a Pop Tart with some level of consistency, which is a required balance. We now can choose between PopTarting and Steel Rain!

[PhoenixFire55]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 March 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

Current speed Buff makes it so Missiles can hit a Pop Tart with some level of consistency, which is a required balance. We now can choose between PopTarting and Steel Rain!

No, its not what is required. And you can't hit a poptart with any more consistency than before buff. All this speed buff achieves is that it screws up lights even more than they were already and eliminates brawling completely.

If PGI wants to 'balance' LRMs then give them their proper indirect fire function. Say, I know there is a poptart behind cover. I see cover is 600m away from me, I set LRM convergence distance to 620m and fire in the direction of that cover without a lock. Observe LRMs drop at 620m from above, observe poptarter deaded. With this indirect fire they should retain their current trajectory, while firing at a target within LoS or at a target locked by someone else their arc should be flattened significantly.

[Joseph Mallan]

PhoenixFire55, on 27 March 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

No, its not what is required. And you can't hit a poptart with any more consistency than before buff. All this speed buff achieves is that it screws up lights even more than they were already and eliminates brawling completely.

If PGI wants to 'balance' LRMs then give them their proper indirect fire function. Say, I know there is a poptart behind cover. I see cover is 600m away from me, I set LRM convergence distance to 620m and fire in the direction of that cover without a lock. Observe LRMs drop at 620m from above, observe poptarter deaded. With this indirect fire they should retain their current trajectory, while firing at a target within LoS or at a target locked by someone else their arc should be flattened significantly.

Sure... If we apply this to Pop Tart fire as well... Yeah there's my target... 600 M away lets set the ... Oof! What I landed already???

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 March 2014 - 09:53 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 March 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Sure... If we apply this to Pop Tart fire as well... Yeah there's my target... 600 M away lets set the ... Oof! What I landed already???

But of course. I am basically SCREAMING convergence mechanics change since first days of CB.

[stjobe]

PhoenixFire55, on 27 March 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

All this speed buff achieves is that it screws up lights even more than they were already and eliminates brawling completely.

That is so completely not my experience of the last week I'm wondering if we play the same game. I guess I'm not at your lofty Elo levels, but in the Elo bracket I play, the games this last week have been the best matches I've had in many a month.

Lights are more abundant, TAGging and Narcing like mad (had a game last night where my 4xSSRM+LL SHawk had to kill not two, not three, but FOUR RVN-3L spotters for the other team), and most of my matches end in a glorious brawl after both teams have jockeyed up the map while trading AC/PPC and LRM fire.

And my Mediums are having a field day, strapping on 10-20 LRM tubes isn't a waste of tonnage any more and I can contribute to the match from any distance, in any combat situation. I don't have to resign myself to direct-fire support or close-in brawling, I can actually be the jack-of-all-trades the Medium is supposed to be.

The only time I had a couple of bad matches was when I fitted my BLR-1S with 50 tubes and 1800 missiles; that ended 0-2 KDR and 250 or so damage in the two drops I made. I guess I'm not much of an Assault pilot, nor a LRM boat driver

But my Lights and Mediums, oh boy. The patch did wonders for them

[Lyoto Machida]

stjobe, on 27 March 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

That is so completely not my experience of the last week I'm wondering if we play the same game. I guess I'm not at your lofty Elo levels, but in the Elo bracket I play, the games this last week have been the best matches I've had in many a month.

Lights are more abundant, TAGging and Narcing like mad (had a game last night where my 4xSSRM+LL SHawk had to kill not two, not three, but FOUR RVN-3L spotters for the other team), and most of my matches end in a glorious brawl after both teams have jockeyed up the map while trading AC/PPC and LRM fire.

And my Mediums are having a field day, strapping on 10-20 LRM tubes isn't a waste of tonnage any more and I can contribute to the match from any distance, in any combat situation. I don't have to resign myself to direct-fire support or close-in brawling, I can actually be the jack-of-all-trades the Medium is supposed to be.

The only time I had a couple of bad matches was when I fitted my BLR-1S with 50 tubes and 1800 missiles; that ended 0-2 KDR and 250 or so damage in the two drops I made. I guess I'm not much of an Assault pilot, nor a LRM boat driver

But my Lights and Mediums, oh boy. The patch did wonders for them

Well, Paul DID say that the guys in the top ELO brackets were the ones having the hardest time adjusting to the LRMs...

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Yeah - I found the same thing out when I tried the trial Stalker - Assault pilot I am not.

[Baltasar]

PhoenixFire55, on 27 March 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

Yeah, but thats the point. LRMs are called useless only by people who PUG and don't get any locks from 800m out. If you actually get your own locks you'll hit everything 120m/s or 175m/s doesn't matter. And in group with a good spotter it doesn't matter either, 120m/s will get there and kill stuff. Current speed increase is nothing but noobs buff.

The thing is, 120m/s getting your own tags, within 500 meters, LOS (which I did before and after LRM changes) exposes you a lot longer (at least 2 full alpha for ppcs and several shots from ac/5s) before you could get back under cover and even at 120 meters within 500 meters it was still easy for mechs to avoid your missiles (I know because I could do it easy enough) unless, and surprise surprise you were a slow assault mech.

On my c1 I use a mix of weapons 2 lrm 15s, a ppc and medium lasers. My hit percentage with lrms was 37% and are now 47% without changing tactics (after all I could use them decently before) but now I don't feel like I have to switch to direct fire just to make sure I benefit my team at times. LRMs are actually useful for once and not easy mode direct fire (cause other than lights it's not that hard to put your reticule over a mech and press a button for near instant damage).

[wanderer]

Quote

No, its not what is required. And you can't hit a poptart with any more consistency than before buff. All this speed buff achieves is that it screws up lights even more than they were already and eliminates brawling completely.

As someone who lived by LRMs before the path - yes, it's a lot easier to hit pogo-sticking poptarters now. Because higher missile speed = higher accuracy, including better odds of keeping lock long enough to impact someone who almost immediately gets behind a hill.

Quote

If PGI wants to 'balance' LRMs then give them their proper indirect fire function. Say, I know there is a poptart behind cover. I see cover is 600m away from me, I set LRM convergence distance to 620m

You do realize that PGI has no ability to "set" convergence for anything beyond "it's in the sights", much less make it viable on-the-fly? If their code had the ability to multitask on convergence, we wouldn't have a problem with perfect-pattern 40 point alpha strikes in the like to begin with.

[Mavairo]

All LRM "It is OP! ZOMG!"

Translates:
"I used a meta that artificially increases my skill, because I am not actually smart enough to advance through cover and manage to survive in more mobile gun platforms. Nor am I smart enough to realize that there is an AMS hardpoint on every mech save one... which should have been a hint in the first damn place. LRMs punish my static and nearly un moving style of gameplay, there for they are OP"

Edited by Mavairo, 28 March 2014 - 05:55 AM.

[Sandpit]

Mavairo, on 28 March 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

All LRM "It is OP! ZOMG!"

Translates:
"I used a meta that artificially increases my skill, because I am not actually smart enough to advance through cover and manage to survive in more mobile gun platforms. Nor am I smart enough to realize that there is an AMS hardpoint on every mech save one... which should have been a hint in the first damn place. LRMs punish my static and nearly un moving style of gameplay, there for they are OP"

^gets it