69 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

Solis Obscuri, on 25 March 2014 - 12:34 AM, said:

How slow is your Jenner?

XL300 with speed tweak slow.

[Koniving]

Kjudoon, on 24 March 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Any time LRMs get made into a balanced weapon the hue and cry from the Poptart AC/PPC meta crowd gets it reversed and PGI acts like they're doing gamers a favor and not some small special interest defending their perch on the pile. Just you watch the freakout that happens if PGI goes through with the threatened big nerf to all things AC. They lost their minds when the m/s got dropped by different rates on the AC20 and AC10. If anything happens more to the ACs or PPCs...

Boom. Scrambled brain salad for everyone with crunchy skull chips.

May they rage quit before that and save us the drama.

It's true that LRMs are considerably more balanced than usual. LRMs are pretty nice in lower numbers. When there's a lot on a single player then it can actually compare to a dual AC/5. Jolly, right?

Trouble is when all 12 players are sporting about 3 to 6 LRM launchers each and the endless spam that ensues.

But I have an idea that can help with the 'new' problem that is caused.

A reduction in impulse (shake) and blur.

Double damage, double cooldown (so it takes twice as long to be able to fire again). Bam. Reduction in LRM spammery. >.> Keeps the weapon reasonably equally effective but reduces the frequency of the spam. Smarter players will want to choose the best moment to fire, a miss will cost you more than a random salvo (as it takes twice as long to fire again), but a hit will be twice as rewarding.

Win/win?

On a side note, my 97 kph Jenner has only died once from LRMs over the last month and a half. That was before the LRM update. Most of the time it's twin PPCs and an AC/5 or twin AC/5s and a PPC. Nobody shoots at a slow Jenner who doesn't go into people's line of sight. That's what Atlases are for, they make great things to stand behind.

<.< Just putting it out there.

[Modo44]

Paul already said that the LRMs are getting slower, and the shake will be slightly reduced.

[PhoenixFire55]

Modo44, on 25 March 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

Paul already said that the LRMs are getting slower, and the shake will be slightly reduced.

He has no clue whatsoever still.

[RTDouglas]

I personally do not feel that LRM's are overpowered but I suppose this debate will wax and wane for as long as there are LRM's in the game. That being said, the best thing I have noticed is that PUG games became much better after the first couple of days. Players were now punished for not thinking and because of that people seemed to discover the use of cover.. I know there are alot of guys who want to always fight toe to toe in there badass brawler mechs... hell I am one of them ... but now because of the LRM havoc, people are grouping up, using COVER and playing smarter. Makes for a better game in my opinion.

[PhoenixFire55]

RTDouglas, on 25 March 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:

people are grouping up, using COVER and playing smarter. Makes for a better game in my opinion.

You mean a 12 mech deathball hiding in one corner of the map spamming LRMs and arty strikes vs another 12 mech deathball hiding in another corner of the map doing the same thing is a better game?

This isn't your typical dumbazz FPS game with 'press RMB to take cover' and 'press LMB to shoot from behind cover'.

[Scurry]

I feel that a big reason why LRMs are difficult to balance is how comparatively easy it is to focus fire and coordinate with them.

To focus fire with other weapons, multiple mechs have to enter LOS and all select the same target.

On the other hand, with LRMs, you have ready access to 'focus fire indicators' in the form of TAG and NARC icons. Add that to the fact that with indirect fire, the target the spotter selects often becomes one of the few, if not the only, target available to the indirect fire.

Ever remember those times when you make a mistake and run into the enemy team - then get focused to death with autocannon bullets blowing armor off your entire mech? That's effectively what is going on with LRM spotters - you've been exposed to the entire LRM arsenal of the enemy team at once.

That, I think, is the reason why LRMs seem to be either utterly useless or horribly overpowered.

[Modo44]

Similar to the missiles icon when LRMs are flying, targets (both friendly and enemy) should have a general "being hit" indicator. It would make shooting stuff that is already being shot pretty simple -- with any weapon.

[VXJaeger]

Easiest and best way to adapt, is not to play until PGI fixes this LRM-shit.

[Jonny Slam]

Woooo hooooo im going to go get my Cat out of mothballs!

[Enigmos]

In theory it makes for a better game. People would make use of available cover. Roles would be deployed appropriately. Units would coordinate. Some of that is actually happening where it hadn't before, but outside of TS-coordinated users (who were already doing so) it is rare.

Those who don't habitually use TS, generally speaking, are soloists either uninterested in teamwork or don't speak one of the common languages. Then there's those like me who love teamwork but won't enslave themselves to TS. Plus, maybe more to the point, I feel bad enough when like a damn fool I go berserk and Leeroy myself, get shot up with a high-risk move ('sometimes it pays off nicely' he said unconvincingly) without bringing shame to my outfit.

But many of those who don't coordinate on TS could simply car less about the team and are in it purely for either their personal fun or for expressing their independence or both and won't be bothered with the roles of their chosen chassis and loadout, or so it seems.

No matter what happens those folks aren't going to change the way they play until they have a personal epiphany on the road to Damascus.

So the best advice, IMO, for new players who would rally like to work with a coordinated team to be effective warrior-pilots is to recommend downloading teamspeak and get used to the ins and outs of grouping in a lance using voice comms. You can also PUG, but at least get used to coordinating targets and piloting your mech and reading the tactical battleground under the excellent tutelage of some of the drop commanders. Note that as always the best commanders are few and the wannabe Alexanders are many.

Teamwork is irreplaceable.

Then, later, when you get your bellyful of 'the many', drop into PUG and learn what 'challenging' is.

[Macksheen]

Frankly, I have one actual LRM mech, and one I toyed with swapping to LRMs for a bit here and there. Generally speaking, I'm still running the things I enjoy.

Since the stat-wipe, I've been watching my #s. I'm relatively new, but seeing the numbers is handy. Frankly, my progress w/ Victors / HGNs has been impacted - both because of their change and because even w/ ACs and PPCs I'm kinda a brawler at heart. Suprisingly to me, my Guass-Boar's Head isn't sucking - and the mech with which I have the best overall stats out of a dozen or so games each right now is my STK-Misery ... and second being my STK-3F streak boat.

What I've been doing is, espescially in the early match, sticking near cover. Not just visual cover, but cover I think I can get behind and block LRMs if I'm targeted. Alpine and Caustic are a bit rough on this, but I'm seeing more fights center around areas with better blocking terrain for both teams. I generally have been trying to be more patient and make sure I'm not completely out in the open while LRMs may fly. If I can get to cover quickly, I'll even try to bait LRMs to fire, then have them dump into the rock I'm hiding behind. If I'm in a light mech, I never stop moving.

It seems to me that while there are lots of LRMs about, mostly it is a sky full of LRMs - not necessarily people really pacing their LRM fire. They see a target and start launching - so staying in the open is bad, but if you get behind cover they will continue to dump missiles into a hill. There are a few folks I see being smarter, but not the majority (in the public games at least).

[thecrimsonchin8]

This is going to be a lot different once the champion mechs rotate and do not include an LRM boat assault mech. Most of the "Lurmageddon" I've been seeing since the patch is perpetrated by these mechs, whether driven by noobs or veterans. This combination of LRM buff and champion mech choice may or may not have been intentional but was definitely poorly timed IMO.

[RTDouglas]

PhoenixFire55, on 25 March 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

You mean a 12 mech deathball hiding in one corner of the map spamming LRMs and arty strikes vs another 12 mech deathball hiding in another corner of the map doing the same thing is a better game?

This isn't your typical dumbazz FPS game with 'press RMB to take cover' and 'press LMB to shoot from behind cover'.

If that is what you are experiencing I am truly sorry. I personally haven't seen many matches like that, but hey I suppose it can happen. You are right this game isn't your typical FPS which is why I am happy that players are now playing smarter. My point was actually that too many players "were" playing this game like a typical FPS. Now I know alot of you out there prefer to see the whites of your enemies eyes before glorious battle, and I have no problem with that... typical FPS I would argue. I think it is nice to have a game that takes into account a more complete picture of war. Arty and LRM make players better. It forces them to think and play smarter. True there are alot of players who dont want to think and just want to laser and autocannon duel all day, fair enough, but I believe there are alot more players like me, who love the extra variety to the game and how it improves overall gameplay. Of course, this is just my opinion.

[Fut]

Dawnstealer, on 24 March 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Kali Rinpoche, on 24 March 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

I wish I had. Tying to level the last bit of my CN9s I went 71/72 for .99 K/D. Before this silliness I was 1.23 K/D in them.

There are now only 3 meta's PPC/AC5 poptart, LRM+artemis, and ECM ravens w/ER LL. If you use any other build (non-assault) and you get the first 15x LRM 15+Art shower, you are toast.

I'm all for tactics and good game play, but this speed patch has destroyed diversity builds.

Hahahahaa - I'm doing the same thing. Tell you what - a 50 ton brawler is not the best mech to take during the Lurmpocalypse. Grinding has been real hard with them. FINALLY got speed tweak on my freebie.

Couldn't disagree with you any harder right now.
Since the patch, I've been running a HBK-4G (AC20, NO AMS) exclusively to great success (for myself). Although I find the new LRMs are worthy of respect, I don't see them being anything near Over-Powered.

As was stated in another thread; the answer to the LRM Boats currently in use, is a quick striking Medium.

The new patch has been great, I've been having a blast in MWO.
It's a little disappointing that the LRM speed is already being dialed back, but I appreciate that the Devs are trying things out for a change.

Edited by Fut, 25 March 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[Mcgral18]

If this were a Lurmageddon it would be #4, however it is not. What best describes it is: teamwork is OP. LRMs just allow you to focus fire very easily.

It seems people forget you can charge boats, where they are then useless. My Frankenhawk of 2 AC 2s SRM 10 and 2 MLs enjoys these boats quite a bit. Especially when you coordinate with one or more friends.

[Kjudoon]

PhoenixFire55, on 25 March 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

Funny guy. Go play a Jenner for a change instead of your LRM60. THEN tell us about how balanced LRMs are.

I do, I have. they're fine.

I run an LRM Jenner too.

Oh, and I don't own an LRM 60. Nice try...

Crap, I just noticed who posted this. No wonder the accusation was worthless.

PhoenixFire55, on 25 March 2014 - 12:45 AM, said:

XL300 with speed tweak slow.

I guess the answer is you're just a bad pilot then.

Edited by Kjudoon, 25 March 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Koniving, on 25 March 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

It's true that LRMs are considerably more balanced than usual. LRMs are pretty nice in lower numbers. When there's a lot on a single player then it can actually compare to a dual AC/5. Jolly, right?

Trouble is when all 12 players are sporting about 3 to 6 LRM launchers each and the endless spam that ensues.

But I have an idea that can help with the 'new' problem that is caused.

A reduction in impulse (shake) and blur.

Double damage, double cooldown (so it takes twice as long to be able to fire again). Bam. Reduction in LRM spammery. >.> Keeps the weapon reasonably equally effective but reduces the frequency of the spam. Smarter players will want to choose the best moment to fire, a miss will cost you more than a random salvo (as it takes twice as long to fire again), but a hit will be twice as rewarding.

Win/win?

On a side note, my 97 kph Jenner has only died once from LRMs over the last month and a half. That was before the LRM update. Most of the time it's twin PPCs and an AC/5 or twin AC/5s and a PPC. Nobody shoots at a slow Jenner who doesn't go into people's line of sight. That's what Atlases are for, they make great things to stand behind.

<.< Just putting it out there.

Yep, I see where you're coming from.

Now, how often do we see 4-8 mechs sporting AC/PPC metas or some variant of it like AC40s, Dual Gauss, Triple UAC5s? At my Elo, about 40-60% of the matches. We see complaints done about it at times, but really compared to the full throated rage-whine of those who do run those builds, it's nothing. What have lights done? Gotten smarter, learned to close and get where it's hard to shoot you or use cover and ECM better. LRM boats? use cover and teamwork. Brawlers? They join them, use ECM cover from others or die quickly.

Now the AC/PPC crowd is being forcibly moved to adapt and they won't budge. They scream non-stop at the devs to 'fix' the balance back to where they are near uncontested.

Oh, I should mention those who adapted? Those are good pilots who learn how to play the game for what it is. Bad pilots just help rack up the easy kills for the rest of us.

Edited by Kjudoon, 25 March 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[Kjudoon]

PhoenixFire55, on 25 March 2014 - 01:07 AM, said:

He has no clue whatsoever still.

I love how you get what you want and bite the hand that gave it to you. At least I'm angry about them backing away due to a lack of courage of their convictions, caving to QQ pressure, promising something they never intended to keep, teasing the community with an overbuff or using us like lab rats for a game that will never be 'done'.

[PhoenixFire55]

Kjudoon, on 25 March 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

I love how you get what you want and bite the hand that gave it to you. At least I'm angry about them backing away due to a lack of courage of their convictions, caving to QQ pressure, promising something they never intended to keep, teasing the community with an overbuff or using us like lab rats for a game that will never be 'done'.

If I got what I 'wanted' LRMs would still have 120m/s speed tops. But the battle isn't over just yet, just like PUGs got what they wanted with idiotic matchmaker the QQ is gonna continue right till LRMs aren't back to what they were prior to this patch. And I will personally focus and burn any and all LRM boats in my games.