69 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

Yeahhhh... not worth talking with. I knew I shouldn't have taken the taunt, but I realized it too late.

But since you're only here to troll anything LRM, I think I'm going to make you the first person I chuck onto my ignore list.

Congrats. I know you couldn't care less, but I figure why sit there and tempt the moral hazard and makes the forums nicer anyway.

[Koniving]

Kjudoon, on 25 March 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

Yeahhhh... not worth talking with. I knew I shouldn't have taken the taunt, but I realized it too late.

But since you're only here to troll anything LRM, I think I'm going to make you the first person I chuck onto my ignore list.

Congrats. I know you couldn't care less, but I figure why sit there and tempt the moral hazard and makes the forums nicer anyway.

Some people are morons.

At any rate, what I'd really like are these LRMs back. At around 1:30, wait for the Hunchback to fire LRMs.

Back then dumb firing wasn't possible. But you see how it goes up and then comes straight down? His lock happened to break.

But, I'd like that ability if I can't see the target (by telling it where I want the missiles to land, perhaps by the battlegrid?). After all indirect LRM fire is supposed to be non-locked Ballistic Launch, and then the guidance just 'inclines' (yaws, slow-turns) them to go kind of toward where the enemy is (so if you don't move you will get hit; and since it's coming straight down on you it'll force poptarts out and then lock-ons when I can see them).

Of course, from that material, an ally spotting for you can only show you a coordinate on a map. If they had a C3 Master/Slave system linked with you, then it could provide you with a target but even then you still couldn't get a lock. Locks did have to be line of sight. If you ever played artillery in World of Tanks, it's about the same thing -- someone spots, you try to drop missiles on where they were spotted or where you think they might be, gradually draining your precious supply of ammo and quite possibly scoring some really great hits or complete failures and misses.

Though you could spend more on ammo for tag-compatible LRMs and ballistic-launch them, as it happens they will seek out tag signals like moths to a flame without lock with significantly more accuracy. Or you could get NARC compatible LRM ammo, and with or without lock they would be drawn to it significantly increasing the value of NARC. But in repair and rearm, those come with risks (they cost twice as much). And thus we'd need the ammunition selector that is still missing as like Autocannons, SRMs and LRMs have different types of ammo.

Yet if you didn't have that and decided to ballistic-launch 'straight' at the target instead of in the air, you could get an SRM-like effect. Naturally...that's because SRMs had guidance too. (This is why Clan LRMs do not have minimum range, they did this frequently).

Ah, but dreaming... doesn't accomplish anything. The result of the idea though would turn LRMs into brawl-capable weapons (ballistic launch), improve SRMs (not as a direct result of the LRM changes but because in lore SRMs had guidance akin to the 'non-locked' guidance I mentioned for LRMs so once developed it could be applied to SRMs) while giving purpose to the MRMs (dumbfired without guidance), reduce LRM spam (due to making them take twice as long to reload yet keep their effectiveness with double the damage), make them more effective against enemies behind cover with a drop straight down thing that 1) introduces an easier way to dodge them and 2) puts in a skill based mechanic akin to taking a reported position and then queuing it on the battlegrid as your target (kind of like mortars in BF3). Of course, the radar might need to work like it did back then, with two updates per second instead of constant (which would make spotting ~that~ much more important, giving Lights an even more crucial role).

But then we'd have something akin to lore. And since that kinda nerfs LRMs while buffing them, we'd kind of have to do that to the other weapons too. Make them akin to lore.

Wonder what Paul meant when he said he was going to do something to autocannons. Because he's said so many times that making them akin to lore (burst and autofire) isn't going to happen.


I miss these LRMs, too. So wild. O.o; So visually pleasing. Much love.

Then again, I'd overhaul so many things on here. First and foremost the pilot skill tree. By master you get 55% increases in some things like acceleration and turning and it's like "You wonder why assaults feel like heavies and heavies feel like mediums?"

Edited by Koniving, 25 March 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[ShadowbaneX]

Kjudoon, on 24 March 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Any time LRMs get made into a balanced weapon the hue and cry from the Poptart AC/PPC meta crowd gets it reversed and PGI acts like they're doing gamers a favor and not some small special interest defending their perch on the pile. Just you watch the freakout that happens if PGI goes through with the threatened big nerf to all things AC. They lost their minds when the m/s got dropped by different rates on the AC20 and AC10. If anything happens more to the ACs or PPCs...

Boom. Scrambled brain salad for everyone with crunchy skull chips.

May they rage quit before that and save us the drama.

Ummm, no. At least to the first part. As for the 2nd, I'm in part of the crowd that would like ACs & PPCs made in to short duration bursts of smaller rounds...and in the case of PPCs if you happen to get a glancing shot, ie just clips the edge of your target, it shouldn't do the full damage.

That said, I'm pretty sure LRMageddon was before the first Poptart meta happened. I can still remember a time before the Dual ER PPC & Gauss Cataphract 3Ds became popular and I'm pretty sure we were on LRMageddon 2.0 at that point.

And yes, may the poptarts rage and scream...wait, does this mean that if the poptarts die the next meta after that is the Toaster Strudel meta?

[Fut]

Koniving, on 25 March 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

I miss these LRMs, too. So wild. O.o; So visually pleasing. Much love.

Then again, I'd overhaul so many things on here. First and foremost the pilot skill tree. By master you get 55% increases in some things like acceleration and turning and it's like "You wonder why assaults feel like heavies and heavies feel like mediums?"

The Artemis spiral was incredible to watch!

An overhaul of the Pilot Tree would do wonders to making this game feel more like Mechwarrior.
Mediums should get nice boosts to their speed and agility, while Heavy/Assaults should get better cooling, better damage soak or something.

[Koniving]

Thinking about it, I worry for assaults the day the engine crits are turned on to actually allow a kill.

During repair and rearm I'd have my engine effectively destroyed, but still be alive with a good amount of health. And weapons crit-damage a LOT better now than they did back then. As I recall the engine has what, 15 health? AC/20s have 18 and are destroyed so fast by 4 MGs... o.O; But totally different topic.

I miss the LRM Artemis Spiral and the wild piranha missiles of LRMs and SRMs.

[Thunder Child]

GUYS! GUYS! MACHINE GUNS ARE OP!!!! I KILLED 4 LRM BOATS WITH THEM!
But seriously, if my 6 MGun Jager can somehow manage to close into range, and kill 4 LRM Boats, in One Match, going only 80kph, why is it that everyone else is having so much trouble. Oh, and this was on Frozen City, and I got into range of them by using those two little hills at the top of the ridge as cover, before following the lines of buildings to flank them. I then used a building to block the indirect fire from one boat, while burning many tiny holes into my target. Rinse and repeat. Yes, it would not have worked on Alpine, and it would have been difficult on Caustic, but if a HexGun Jager can do it.... Oh, and my back up weapons were a pair of Medium Pulse Lasers.

[Koniving]

Been saying MGs are OP for a long time. >.> Those and LB-10x. No one believes me.

But yeah up against anything that is ammunition heavy you can really ruin their day in a matter of seconds. You just need to get a soft spot. LBs at range are great for finding weak points. Once you have 'em, sink your teeth in and then MG the heck out of it.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 25 March 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Been saying MGs are OP for a long time. >.> Those and LB-10x. No one believes me.

Behold! C'thulhu! Harbinger of the End!
(PSA: armor and Ammo are not positioned precisely - follow to the letter at your own risk - Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'leh wgah'nagl fhtagn and all that)

[Koniving]

Shar Wolf, on 25 March 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Behold! C'thulhu! Harbinger of the End!
(PSA: armor and Ammo are not positioned precisely - follow to the letter at your own risk - Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'leh wgah'nagl fhtagn and all that)

Needs Flamers.




Flamer Jagers, being epic since forever.


But still nothing compares to the Flamer Stalker.

Edited by Koniving, 25 March 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[Thunder Child]

Laugh not at the Flamer. My Laserback runs a pair in the arms. On Chainfire, I can keep the flamers running the entire time, fire the 6pack Mediums on Cooldown, and still stay balanced with heat. My opponent, meanwhile, will be running hot the entire fight.
(Except those damned Gauss builds.... Grrrrr.....)

[Koniving]

Thunder Child, on 25 March 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

Psst, if you keep bragging about the flamer glitch it'll get fixed and then flamers will truly be worthless.
That or they'll change flamers into a burst/shot + cooldown weapon that cooks enemies over time by setting them on fire (without you having to stare at them the entire time).

Since the second idea is intelligent, count on the first.

Edited by Koniving, 25 March 2014 - 03:58 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Kjudoon, on 25 March 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

Crap, I just noticed who posted this. No wonder the accusation was worthless.

I guess the answer is you're just a bad pilot then.

I love how LRM (ab)users always come down to either personal insults or L2P comments. If you have no valid arguments left just gtfo.

I was hearing same when arguing people who were saying that Streaks that were hitting CT only with 3 damage per missile were "just fine". Guess who was right in the end?

[PhoenixFire55]

RTDouglas, on 25 March 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

I think it is nice to have a game that takes into account a more complete picture of war. Arty and LRM make players better. It forces them to think and play smarter.

Depends on the extent. I think most MWO players get the concept of using cover rather fast. And its a good thing that the game forces you to plan your moves and think in general. But again, the problem is when you know that if you leave cover even for 2-5 seconds you'll get blown up in a horrible way there is no reason to leave cover, and you can't really fight without leaving cover. Its like a trench war during WWI. Endless. This is a game after all and we are supposed to have fun playing it. I can hardly call sitting in cover for 10-12 mins trading LRMs, arty strikes and occasional Gauss/PPC shot fun.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

How use this till they patch it? Levelling my LRM-Carrier variants. Had a blast with my Griffin and Battlemaster Missileboats yesterday.. even tried out the trial stalker.. its nice, just needs more missiles.

Tried to play with my mastered Jenners yesterday.. its useless.. so.. guess i level my missileboats till then. Only good point, Spiders are actually killable now.. but need more missiles than an assault.

[PhoenixFire55]

John McFianna, on 26 March 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

Only good point, Spiders are actually killable now.. but need more missiles than an assault.

Can hardly call it killable when a 30 tonner needs more missiles, more lasers, more ACs, more everything to kill than an assault mech. Only way to effectively kill Spiders is still SSRMs.

A lot of people from LRM crowd cry they can't kill lights, but problem isn't LRMs being bad, problem lights (namely spider) are broken, or rather hit detection being broken.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 26 March 2014 - 12:54 AM.

[Koniving]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 March 2014 - 12:17 AM, said:

If I might... This is an interesting example of how to deal with an LRM boat. I direct your attention to 4 minutes in. Enemy LRM boat. But for the best enjoyment and the full story start at the beginning 'cause I'm watching this and it's hilarious what we did to these LRM boats before finally taking them out. "It'll take him a while to get back to us." "Just keep 'em running in a circle."

Edited by Koniving, 26 March 2014 - 01:19 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Koniving, on 26 March 2014 - 01:15 AM, said:

If I might... This is an interesting example of how to deal with an LRM boat. I direct your attention to 4 minutes in. Enemy LRM boat. But for the best enjoyment and the full story start at the beginning 'cause I'm watching this and it's hilarious what we did to these LRM boats before finally taking them out. "It'll take him a while to get back to us." "Just keep 'em running in a circle."

So ... 3 mechs against a single poor clueless LRM boat that came into brawling range and you had a jump on him to begin with? What is this supposed to teach me? Part I love the most is how you strip his weapons but keep shooting him instead of switching to a target that can shoot back. He is an Atlas you know, he isn't gonna run away and outcap you.

I did watch from the start and all I saw you standing capping when your Awesome lancemate is getting shredded by LRMs, Gausscat and a ShadowHawk. You had a SL-SSRM brawler build and yet you let others go up front and used them as meatshields, same when your Thunderbolt buddy went out to eat LRMs and then tanked the ShadowHawk.

I think I'd rather learn smth from people who actually know how to play. No offense, but this match doesn't exactly classify you as one, maybe there are others that do, feel free to post them.

[Modo44]

The boat did not "come into brawling range", it was found and hugged to death. Had they tried to hide and trade shots, the boat would have won.

[Koniving]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 March 2014 - 01:33 AM, said:

So ... 3 mechs against a single poor clueless LRM boat that came into brawling range and you had a jump on him to begin with? What is this supposed to teach me? Part I love the most is how you strip his weapons but keep shooting him instead of switching to a target that can shoot back. He is an Atlas you know, he isn't gonna run away and outcap you.

You didn't watch the rest. Two mechs for against him for starters.
It began 4 mechs in our lance with one of them being slaughtered in a matter of seconds towards 1 minute in, after being instantly attacked as soon as the match began. The other dies somewhere between 2 and 3 minutes in shredded by a 4 AC/5 Cataphract + LRM Atlas duo.

From there on it continues as a pair of close-range, high heat Thunderbolts fighting against (not in order) 4 AC/5 Cataphract, another Cataphract, an Atlas, Shadowhawk and another Shadowhawk and indirectly we also dealt with a Catapult, some lights.

We had the Atlas busy throughout the match because ~we~ confused him. We baited him, we lured him, we tricked him, over and over again because we couldn't deal with that and the other mechs at the same time and then at 4 minutes in we dealt with him directly without his support.

Of course dealing with an LRM boat by rushing it is simple enough logic. But before the actual kill with the rest of the video we did quite a bit more. This is in a fight where in less than 15 seconds of the match starting I'm hit with LRMs. That's after being hit by direct weapons fire in 7 seconds of actually starting.

The lesson is that even with 3 small lasers, 1 AC/5, 1 regular PPC, and 2 Streaks and an ally whose weapons were equally 'useless' against LRMs managed to outsmart not only the Atlas but other rival LRM boats, kill multiple brawler/fire support mechs, and do most of it with just two of what are considered by meta to be very 'worthless' mechs to use and not a single LRM on either one of us. Both of us going less than 70 kph. Myself going 67 kph.

[MrWhite]

We can always get rid of screen shake, ghost heat on PPCs and the charge up mechanic for gauss rifles... lol

Or, I know... actually make SRM's useful again so it's worth it to brawl....

On a serious note I wonder when PGI will get it through their heads that the problem isn't weapons, you can rebalence this and nerf that and whatever, MWO players will generally always be Min-Max players, all you do is change the meta from one thing to another. The problem is the mechs, in all honesty... and because they have basically made mechs behave so much the same way it doesn't matter. There is just not a huge difference between one or another. Like seriously who in their right mind would run an awesome when a victor, or a highlander... as of right now, makes a better PPC platform? Cause, well you know... you think PPC boats an awesome is just the LAST thing that should come to mind...

Edited by MrWhite, 26 March 2014 - 02:09 AM.