69 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

Koniving, on 26 March 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

You didn't watch the rest. Two mechs for against him for starters.
It began 4 mechs in our lance with one of them being slaughtered in a matter of seconds towards 1 minute in, after being instantly attacked as soon as the match began. The other dies somewhere between 2 and 3 minutes in shredded by a 4 AC/5 Cataphract + LRM Atlas duo.

From there on it continues as a pair of close-range, high heat Thunderbolts fighting against (not in order) 4 AC/5 Cataphract, another Cataphract, an Atlas, Shadowhawk and another Shadowhawk and indirectly we also dealt with a Catapult, some lights.

We had the Atlas busy throughout the match because ~we~ confused him. We baited him, we lured him, we tricked him, over and over again because we couldn't deal with that and the other mechs at the same time and then at 4 minutes in we dealt with him directly without his support.

Of course dealing with an LRM boat by rushing it is simple enough logic. But before the actual kill with the rest of the video we did quite a bit more. This is in a fight where in less than 15 seconds of the match starting I'm hit with LRMs. That's after being hit by direct weapons fire in 7 seconds of actually starting.

The lesson is that even with 3 small lasers, 1 AC/5, 1 regular PPC, and 2 Streaks and an ally whose weapons were equally 'useless' against LRMs managed to outsmart not only the Atlas but other rival LRM boats, kill multiple brawler/fire support mechs, and do most of it with just two of what are considered by meta to be very 'worthless' mechs to use and not a single LRM on either one of us. Both of us going less than 70 kph. Myself going 67 kph.

I watched from the start till the moment you died, thank you ...

Aren't taking too much credit, are we?

Yeah, you had a teammate from a different lance who died right away, but then as I said you let your Awesome lancemate to just die. All I saw you fighting the entire match is ... 1 Atlas (LRM boat), 1 Gausscat, 1 quad AC Phract and 1 ShadowHawk. Your team had ... 1 dieing early (doesn't really matter what he was), 1 Awesome, 2 Thunderbolts and then THREE more teammates, and it was those 3 teammates that killed the Gausscat and kept the attention of the Phract and the Atlas pretty much the entire time, allowing you to stab them in the back with your PPC and AC. So thats ... 7 vs 4 in your favor? There were no lights, no 2nd Cataphract and no 2nd ShadowHawk during the fight. The one that killed you arrived at kappa from the middle and he wasn't anywhere near kappa for your entire time there.

All I see there is their lance slowly suiciding. EVERYONE knows that kappa is a death trap going from their side. They were caught pretty much in the open in between your lance and lance in the middle.

Baited? Lured? Confused? Big words for nothing. Your Awesome didn't bait, he just stood in the open and died. Your Thunderbolt buddy baited, twice, got 2 salvos into him and thought better. All you did was hide behind cover (and yeah, that was a right thing to do) and make dashes in between rock formations without even trading fire. You were exposed for the total duration of 10 seconds, and those 10 seconds were enough to be relieved of most of your armor on a 65 ton mech. Most of the time you were shooting smb (with the exception of the Atlas in the end) he was shooting smth else and facing the other direction (ShadowHawk at start, same ShadowHawk on the right side, Phract).

You had 1 LRM boat (probably that DDC Atlas giving ECM to two others) and it was that LRM boat that shredded and killed the Phract (even if smb else had the killing blow). They had 1 LRM boat (the Atlas), that hit you exactly twice, 1st time right at start practically stripping your left side of armor, 2nd time in the end at kappa coreing your right side. He had what? ... 2 LRM15s. Thats 30 missiles more or less completely stripping your left side and 30 missiles more completely stripping your right side. Balanced? Don't think so.

Now try doing same hiding on maps with no cover high enough to hide 3 Atlases standing on top of each other. You'll be dead in 15 seconds.

[PhoenixFire55]

Modo44, on 26 March 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

The boat did not "come into brawling range", it was found and hugged to death. Had they tried to hide and trade shots, the boat would have won.

To be found it would have needed to be lost first. They always knew where he was. All I need is to take a look at that 2-ALRM15, 4-ML Atlas build to know he has no clue. Sorry if it sounds harsh but its true.

Edit: Sorry didn't see correctly, its a 2-ALRM15, 2-ML, 2-MG build. But thats even worse.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 26 March 2014 - 02:42 AM.

[CCC Dober]

Phoenix got it right. Paul either has no clue at all, pretends to have none or is just plain trolling. No matter which, you can expect a lot more from a lead designer.

Who really needs a week's worth of metrics to understand that a 46% speed bump alongside fixing NARC (finally) would have a dramatic impact. Certainly nobody who has played this game long enough. Least of all somebody who's business it is to test and change these numbers on a regular basis.

The first word that comes to mind here is incompetence. Totally unrelated of course.

[Astrocanis]

Kjudoon, on 25 March 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

I do, I have. they're fine.

I run an LRM Jenner too.

Oh, and I don't own an LRM 60. Nice try...

Crap, I just noticed who posted this. No wonder the accusation was worthless.


I guess the answer is you're just a bad pilot then.

How fortunate are we to have such superiority amidst our mediocrity.

Your credibility shot to nil with your last comment.

[Kain]

I think LRMs are pretty balanced, but still too deadly when they are boated and the opposing team doesn't has any ECM mechs at their disposal

But people don't wan't to dig in for the whole match waiting to get some pop shots over the ridge/hill/corner and waiting till the LRM boats are bored or empty.
But of course it all depends on the team compositions how such matches can unfold,
(ECM mechs, narc, scouts, snipers, lrm boats etc.)

I am curious how the 3-3-3-3 will work out...

[Fut]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 March 2014 - 01:33 AM, said:

I think I'd rather learn smth from people who actually know how to play. No offense, but this match doesn't exactly classify you as one, maybe there are others that do, feel free to post them.

Wait... Did you seriously just say this about Koniving?
Few comments on this forum have been as funny as this. So thanks for the laugh.

I don't want to suck the guy's **** too much here, but I have learned many things from Kon - mostly indirectly, but he's also helped me figure out a couple things for my HBKs. I honestly believe I'm a better Mech pilot because of him.

So before you judge too harshly, take a look at some of his other videos and posts.

Edited by Fut, 27 March 2014 - 08:47 AM.

[KnowBuddy]

thecrimsonchin8, on 25 March 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

This is going to be a lot different once the champion mechs rotate and do not include an LRM boat assault mech. Most of the "Lurmageddon" I've been seeing since the patch is perpetrated by these mechs, whether driven by noobs or veterans. This combination of LRM buff and champion mech choice may or may not have been intentional but was definitely poorly timed IMO.

This is a critical point. There is something to be said for not skewing your dataset by confounding something simple with a mountain of tangentially-related incentives. Case in point is the time period since this last patch:

• Announced changes to LRMs, anticipated to increase their effectiveness.
  
• Ability of LRMs to now hit fast 'Mechs more reliably than a snowball's chance in hell.
  
• Selection of an LRM-boat as the Assault class Trial 'Mech.
  
• Introduction of Achievements.
  
  • Many many many achievements for Assists, which LRMs are good at getting.
    
  • An achievement for winning in a Trial 'Mech.
• And a tournament.

It's no surprise to me that we're seeing lots of LRMs being used, by both new and veteran players. However, this is not necessarily an indication that they are now too powerful. I'm still able to sidestep them in Assault, Heavy, and Light 'Mechs without much problem, without ECM and I'm usually never at top possible speeds, though I do utilize AMS to help with this. The times when I get killed by LRMs is when I fail at situation awareness, even with them being much more frequently encountered than previously.

Edited by KnowBuddy, 27 March 2014 - 09:13 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Fut, on 27 March 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Wait... Did you seriously just say this about Koniving?

Not seriousely, no. But the match he shows isn't exactly a good example of anything except the bad tactics choice of a lance they killed at kappa.

I might be a bit frustrated because of the people who teach me to play all the time here saying use cover, L2P, that kind of stuff and then drop with me in games and die doing 50 or so damage. Koniving however does not belong to that group and by no means deserves a little bit of thrashing he got from me just now. I apologize if I offended him in particular as I know he is a really positive guy and helps newbies on forums and in game. But its just him, not the others.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 27 March 2014 - 09:18 AM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

One other adaption, let the light NARC you, then move behind Cover. You know the building that the LRMs will slam into, the bridge over you, or the hill side beside you.


If you adapt, using cover can be interesting, especially if the raven keeps NARCing on you. Just do not kill the raven yet, let the LRM boats run out of missiles first.

[Kjudoon]

Astrocanis, on 27 March 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

How fortunate are we to have such superiority amidst our mediocrity.

Your credibility shot to nil with your last comment.

Note the conflation here. I never said I was a great pilot in general. I just made the comparison that if he was having these problems, he must not be a good pilot. I base this on the fact that even at 175m/s and NARC I still am not being overpowered by LRMs even in a light mech when I do manage to get a round or two in. So as you can see, I'm criticising my skill as a pilot as being quite bad.. because I'm not a dominant force on the field... but at the same time, if I can do this... what does that mean for the QQragewhiners who can't?

If I can run mechs between 75-140kph without AMS and not dying to LRMs constantly, does that mean I'm a good pilot? If he cannot, does that make him a bad pilot?

I go onto 12mans and see consistant stomps by the AC meta even when 8-12 mechs boat LRMs versus the 8-12 ACboats. Is this balanced? No.

Did this rollout of the newly more balanced (because it would need more to balance versus ACs right now, though they are versus Lasers) get done in less than stellar ways? Absolutely. The Re-nerf is an indicator that in panic from the Poptart's QQrage, PGI is instead just going to find another, worse way to bring ACs into balance.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 March 2014 - 09:35 AM.