775 replies to this topic

[VagGR]

and since we brought this ..Paul can we pleaease make the AMS stop shooting through walls, buildings, hills, mountains, planets when its obvious that there is no freaking line of sight with those missiles its shooting at....please?!

Edited by VagGR, 24 March 2014 - 01:57 PM.

[Mystere]

AMT527, on 24 March 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

I thank you for watching. I have to know something though. What was your snack of choice while monitoring these games?

Tears, vast flowing rivers of male nerd rage tears.

<maniacal >

[VXJaeger]

Charons Little Helper, on 24 March 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

Against boats a SOLE AMS doesn't do much. Get a group of 4-5 together - and it'll put a dent in any LRM volley.

Where the **** you are gonna find 4-5 AMS in PUG game? Just had one, and only me and ONE other had AMS in their mechs.
So **** this and your holy conclution.

[Guilty Gun]

Corbon Zackery, on 24 March 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Good reply,
I will tell you right now. I have no faith in the staffs ability to balance all the new Clan tech that will be going into the game.

I am also out of Premium time so I see you later on when you have sorted all this out.

I encourage everyone else who doesn't have premium time to do the same. We the community shouldn't have to spend weeks on Paul's little pet LRM blunder project being his lab rats.

This.

[HybridTheory]

Darian DelFord, on 24 March 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

First Response )

Thanks Paul, I still think when you all make changes such as this, its a good idea to throw them up on the Test Server for a day so we can all test and exploit the heck out of it so you all can get great feedback before they hit the live. Is there any plans to have a test server up 24/7 with the advance patch already installed so we can test it before it goes live?

Love the thinking here... test server first. IF after a few days or maybe a week in said testing there is still not enough data to really make a good judgement (since not everyone will play the test servers) THEN make it public for 1 more week... combine the data gathered and make a judgement. (Also if you decide to test SRM changes then you will see me testing the crap out of them..... hint hint....

VXJaeger, on 24 March 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Where the **** you are gonna find 4-5 AMS in PUG game? Just had one, and only me and ONE other had AMS in their mechs.
So **** this and your holy conclution.

After a few days I have seen a great number of mechs bringing AMS into the fold. Maybe relax a bit... hell I even started seeing dual AMS Stalker builds in the field. Last few games I PUG'd in last night almost every single mech had AMS equipped.

Edited by HybridTheory, 24 March 2014 - 02:15 PM.

[WM Jeri]

Rebas Kradd, on 24 March 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

LRMs promote mediums. Their speed is a direct answer to the LRM rain and gives teams a surgical strike option against LRM boats. My Centurion doesn't even need AMS.

We have some videos of some mediums that tried that with us. Again everything is situational but when we boat its in no less than 2 preferrebly 3 LRM boats each spaced apart roughly 200 to 300 meters in a diamond. When targets move in to engage us close we call out to each other and simply each fire on targets harrassing our brother boats. They either die or get discouraged quick. Either way we have deprived the enemy team of combat power and can kill quicker than they can kill us and then we go back to killing.

Not all the time as a few well coordinated enemy premades pushed us a couple times but the only one we lost was due to an assault lance push, so if your up against a premade boat lance...yea probably want to rethink the whole charge in with the medium thing especially if your alone or even with 2 or three friends. I would say assess the boats your pushing first. If they are spaced well you push at your own risk.

[Basskicker]

VXJaeger, on 24 March 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Where the **** you are gonna find 4-5 AMS in PUG game? Just had one, and only me and ONE other had AMS in their mechs.
So **** this and your holy conclution.

You're not going to... too many people have to have that extra ton of ammo or that extra heatsink so they just don't even consider ams... not to mention the newer players who aren't even going to know wtf ams is. Much less how to equip it. (Chalk that up to no tutorial)

Also if you are pugging and you're not running an ecm mech then you are putting too much faith in the MM to find a proper team. As it is if you drop solo and your team doesn't have any ecm and the other team does.... then you can go ahead and chalk up a loss because it's about to be a one sided rain fest.

[Bishop Steiner]

VXJaeger, on 24 March 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Where the **** you are gonna find 4-5 AMS in PUG game? Just had one, and only me and ONE other had AMS in their mechs.
So **** this and your holy conclution.

WM Jeri, on 24 March 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

We have some videos of some mediums that tried that with us. Again everything is situational but when we boat its in no less than 2 preferrebly 3 LRM boats each spaced apart roughly 200 to 300 meters in a diamond. When targets move in to engage us close we call out to each other and simply each fire on targets harrassing our brother boats. They either die or get discouraged quick. Either way we have deprived the enemy team of combat power and can kill quicker than they can kill us and then we go back to killing.

Not all the time as a few well coordinated enemy premades pushed us a couple times but the only one we lost was due to an assault lance push, so if your up against a premade boat lance...yea probably want to rethink the whole charge in with the medium thing especially if your alone or even with 2 or three friends. I would say assess the boats your pushing first. If they are spaced well you push at your own risk.

we usually used well placed direct fire, and arty strikes against those formations in HARD. Situational, also, as some locations are better shielded, (though better shielded tends to mean more hard cover to snipe around, then break locks, too), but use of hard cover, and the preponderance of direct fire weapons we could snap shoot, then move with, which far outrange LRMs, most times, left us rather unimpressed with LRMs as the answer. They are a good part of a Order of Battle though.

[mack sabbath]

PoLaR, on 24 March 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

These PPC and LRM meta builds are really owning the field... brawlings a hard life sometimes D:

If we had SRMs that worked, it would change immensely.

[wanderer]

Paul, I'm actually disappointed.

Go look at the tournament data and please, tell me what was scoring highest.

You've got the info. After all, it scored our top 10 matches.

Please, tell us what chassis scored those #1-#10 rankings. In Liao, the top dogs weren't using LRMs. Heck, I might well be the top guy who used a missile boat the entire time- and placed twenty-fourth in that whole weekend grind. Why not dakka? Because silly me, I wanted to see how far I could push the new missile systems.

If it wasn't LRMs, then you have zero reason to change missile speed, unless you intend to do something roughly equivalent to the whole front-loaded damage-pa-looza that is AC/PPC metaboating. Why'd the lower ELO adjust faster?

Because the higher ELO realized that LRMs really aren't as deadly as the same stuff that killed best before the patch and usage was in the cellar by comparison.

Seriously. You just had a weekend full of tons of data. Show us what topped the charts. Where'd the LRM rank in that? What -really- was performing best?

[Cest7]

Just fix and buff SRMs and the FOTM will change.

[Shredhead]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

we usually used well placed direct fire, and arty strikes against those formations in HARD. Situational, also, as some locations are better shielded, (though better shielded tends to mean more hard cover to snipe around, then break locks, too), but use of hard cover, and the preponderance of direct fire weapons we could snap shoot, then move with, which far outrange LRMs, most times, left us rather unimpressed with LRMs as the answer. They are a good part of a Order of Battle though.

*Ad hominem
Think it's you who fails, especially at delivering arguments...

[Black Templar]

i am still not happy with the fact, that a mech with say 6 tubes in a left torso can mount an LRM20 in that place. i believe that shouldn't be a thing and it could potentially limit the number of boats in any given match. min.-/maxing is still a problem in this game and maybe it is time to give the hardpoints acutal sizes (AC/20, PCC = big gun, only fits in large hardpoint etc.).

[wanderer]

Cest7, on 24 March 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Just fix and buff SRMs and the FOTM will change.

Agreed. At this point the paper and scissors are buffed, it's time to get rock back in the game. Watching half my SRM shots do zero damage thanks to borked hit registration on nearly immobile targets I hit square in the face at near perfect ping is beyond depressing.

[DocBach]

wanderer, on 24 March 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

Paul, I'm actually disappointed.

Go look at the tournament data and please, tell me what was scoring highest.

You've got the info. After all, it scored our top 10 matches.

Please, tell us what chassis scored those #1-#10 rankings. In Liao, the top dogs weren't using LRMs. Heck, I might well be the top guy who used a missile boat the entire time- and placed twenty-fourth in that whole weekend grind. Why not dakka? Because silly me, I wanted to see how far I could push the new missile systems.

If it wasn't LRMs, then you have zero reason to change missile speed, unless you intend to do something roughly equivalent to the whole front-loaded damage-pa-looza that is AC/PPC metaboating. Why'd the lower ELO adjust faster?

Because the higher ELO realized that LRMs really aren't as deadly as the same stuff that killed best before the patch and usage was in the cellar by comparison.

Seriously. You just had a weekend full of tons of data. Show us what topped the charts. Where'd the LRM rank in that? What -really- was performing best?

...number one for Steiner was a STK LRM boat. Plenty of names on those lists were LRM boats -- either Stalkers, Battlemasters, or Highlander LRM boats.

[12Bravo]

Paul Inouye, on 24 March 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Just to let you all know that I've been monitoring the LRM change and their performance on the battlefield. Yes... they are a tad fast... but far from "LRMageddon". Next patch the speed will be reduced by 15m/s. I.e. net change will be from 120 to 160 (instead of 175). I'm also reducing the amount of screenshake caused by LRM explosions slightly. (0.35 instead of 0.4)

It was important to watch the speed impact in gameplay for at least a week to see the actual change in overall gameplay. As you may or may not know, I do have the ability to remotely monitor specific and random games being played. I spent a large portion of my time last week monitoring gameplay of players of all Elo ranges. There were some interesting finds to say the least in terms of how players adapted to the speed change.

The "LRMaggedon" unfortunately comes from making the announcement of a buff, not necessarily because they were made OP.

[wanderer]

DocBach, on 24 March 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

...number one for Steiner was a STK LRM boat. Plenty of names on those lists were LRM boats -- either Stalkers, Battlemasters, or Highlander LRM boats.

Then give us the full picture. For us in Liao, it was mostly Dragon Slayers with the usual AC/5-PPC configs. Cause if people are howling "NERF!" and we're seeing similar scores from both types, then if one needs a powering down, so does the rest.

Of course, that way lies the circle of endless Nerf, the tenth circle of gaming hell. Was it also Lurmageddon in Marik, Davion, etc?

[Reno Blade]

At least they seem to be able to do damage control and prevent a new Lurmageddon.
I liked the speed, but I guess the efficiency was too good in open terrain.

[Deathlike]

stjobe, on 24 March 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

Tears.

The tears of his players.

It is the approved bottled water of PGI.

DocBach, on 24 March 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

...number one for Steiner was a STK LRM boat. Plenty of names on those lists were LRM boats -- either Stalkers, Battlemasters, or Highlander LRM boats.

TBH, I thought there was just a lot more D-DCs and Steiner lances in force. It was actually hard to miss them, despite the ECM.

[DocBach]

wanderer, on 24 March 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Then give us the full picture. For us in Liao, it was mostly Dragon Slayers with the usual AC/5-PPC configs. Cause if people are howling "NERF!" and we're seeing similar scores from both types, then if one needs a powering down, so does the rest.

Of course, that way lies the circle of endless Nerf, the tenth circle of gaming hell. Was it also Lurmageddon in Marik, Davion, etc?

#3 in Rasalhauge started a post on the tournament page with his loadout - LRM-55 Highlander.

I made 14 for Steiner with 2165 points using a BNC-3E Banshee exclusively -- all of my games featured players from the leaderboards, and all of the games we played had several boats involved.