775 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Dracol, on 24 March 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

For those who wish not to view the video.. yes the spider dies in 17 seconds, but it took the beating because it ran out into the open in front of 2 lances.

And 17 seconds is a rather long time to live if you do that - he'd probably have died even faster in front of two lances of AC+PPC meta-builds.

[Gas Guzzler]

stjobe, on 24 March 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

And 17 seconds is a rather long time to live if you do that - he'd probably have died even faster in front of two lances of AC+PPC meta-builds.

Or two lances of AC40/dual guass Jagers!


Also I noticed a few of you were saying that too much damage was going to the CT. This is why you twist your torso to put your arms in between your torso and the missiles. This helps immensely.

Anyway, I thought the speed was fine but they should still be usable at 160 m/s. I like that there is finally a reason to equip LRM's on a non-LRM boat. Before that last patch, any Mech with LRMs equipped would lose those LRMs right off the bat.

[Shredhead]

Rebas Kradd, on 24 March 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

LRMs promote mediums. Their speed is a direct answer to the LRM rain and gives teams a surgical strike option against LRM boats. My Centurion doesn't even need AMS.

Sorry, that's bs. "Surgical strikes" with mediums, are you kidding me? As soon as close to an enemy LRM boat it turns, hard-locks you and then all other LRM boats rain on you, not to speak of all the other mechs around. You can pull this kind of stuff with terribads standing 500 meters behind the front lines, maybe, but not with experienced players.

Edited by Shredhead, 24 March 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[Eddrick]

I would wager the reason for lower Elo people adapting faster being: Higher Elo people refusing to adapt. Especialy, the Min/Max people. Because, they would definatly refuse to take AMS, unless they felt it was absolutly needed.

[King Lags]

160 is...livable for LRMs. However as others have stated will we also see AMS getting a slight nerf as well to compensate? As it stands AMS is pretty awesome against SRMs now too and leaving it at that longer range with the primary reason for it's buff getting a slight nerf is a bit much.

As for shake yeah that's fine. But LRMs NEED to continue to be viable in order to encourage spotter builds and intelligent play. Otherwise it'll just go right back to the AC5/PPC meta and nigh instant deaths on anything not a meta or light.

[Rebas Kradd]

Shredhead, on 24 March 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Sorry, that's bs. "Surgical strikes" with mediums, are you kidding me? As soon as close to an enemy LRM boat it turns, hard-locks you and then all other LRM boats rain on you, not to speak of all the other mechs around. You can pull this kind of stuff with terribads standing 500 meters behind the front lines, maybe, but not with experienced players.

So you're saying that we have on our hands a weapon that can be put to better use by skilled players, but is useless in the hands of poor ones? Working as intended, says I.

And it's not BS. I love joining up with a couple Firestarters/Cicadas, maybe a Shadowhawk, and going on quick strike sorties. Isolate an LRM boat, work around the map under cover, sneak in under his LRM range, carve him up, then scatter and vanish back into the shadows giggling like little girls. Such fun. Usually the victim won't even have the wits or communication skills to call for help.

I will agree with you that trundling right up to an LRM boat across wide open fields, in full sight of the enemy team, is a bad idea. But if that's what you're doing, you've got bigger problems than LRMs.

[PoLaR]

These PPC and LRM meta builds are really owning the field... brawlings a hard life sometimes D:

[Shredhead]

Eddrick, on 24 March 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

I would wager the reason for lower Elo people adapting faster being: Higher Elo people refusing to adapt. Especialy, the Min/Max people. Because, they would definatly refuse to take AMS, unless they felt it was absolutly needed.

No, it's just that against boats AMS is absolutely useless. So in high Elo we just adapted by going back to or staying with sniper builds and being way less aggressive.

[JDH4mm3r]

PoLaR, on 24 March 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

These PPC and LRM meta builds are really owning the field... brawlings a hard life sometimes D:

Well then.... create a city map where LURMING is much harder.

then brawl to your hearts content.

Edited by JDH4mm3r, 24 March 2014 - 12:56 PM.

[PoLaR]

JDH4mm3r, on 24 March 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

Well then.... create a city map where LURMING is much harder.

then brawl to your hearts content.

Oh I do, long range meta or not, broken SRMs or not. Hopefully the next patch will help out SRMS, we'll see.

[Iskareot]

DocBach, on 24 March 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

Would you say getting cover is an easy button, or sitting behind cover lobbing LRM's is the easy button?

No doubt this just was stupid.... Everyone but him saw a problem I guess. See there is so many things wrong with this whole attempt the Dev team even noticed it after a weekend. Come on.... Sadly it happened and it never should have plain and simple. So many logical options too

[Shredhead]

Rebas Kradd, on 24 March 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

So you're saying that we have on our hands a weapon that can be put to better use by skilled players, but is useless in the hands of poor ones? Working as intended, says I.

And it's not BS. I love joining up with a couple Firestarters/Cicadas, maybe a Shadowhawk, and going on quick strike sorties. Isolate an LRM boat, work around the map under cover, sneak in under his LRM range, carve him up, then scatter and vanish back into the shadows giggling like little girls. Such fun. Usually the victim won't even have the wits or communication skills to call for help.

I will agree with you that trundling right up to an LRM boat across wide open fields, in full sight of the enemy team, is a bad idea. But if that's what you're doing, you've got bigger problems than LRMs.

Dude, do you even play this game? You don't have to be a good player to know to stay within 100 to 200 meters of your main force with a LRM boat. On almost every map you'll have to cross open terrain to close to the enemy, except that boat being a terribad in a bad position. And yes, you have to balance top down, not the other way around. If a weapon system is too good in the hands of experienced players, you need to counter that. Newbies and terribads are not the benchmark for balance.

[Rebas Kradd]

Sorry. There is enough dissension of your opinion in this and every other thread that I don't think you can claim objective truth here. Plenty of people on both sides of the issue.

[Ngamok]

JDH4mm3r, on 24 March 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

Well then.... create a city map where LURMING is much harder.

then brawl to your hearts content.

Urbanmech

[Redshift2k5]

Just a matter of adapting from 'hey I'd better avoid that nest of PPC+AC mechs' to 'Hey, I'd better avoid that nest of LRM mechs'. Both will kill you just as quick if you give them the opportunity, although you do need to avoid them in slightly different ways (adjust for target decay after you break LOS)

[BlackDeathLegion]

Dirus Nigh, on 24 March 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

LRM based cockpit shake should be based on the number of missiles hitting the mech. An LRM 5 should not create the same amount of shake as an LRM 15.

I totally AGREE!

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 24 March 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

#1 sounds very, very strange. One would assume that higher Elo players would be more likely to use "tried and true" powerbuilds like the dreaded poptarts. And, I would *think* that higher Elo folks would be more likely to use cover and other tactics to defeat the newly buffed Lurms than lower Elo folks.

And... that is why I roll my eyes when Paul says stuff.

On Match 2 of the patch, I immediately equipped AMS on the mech I had brought previously. Yes, the LRM usage did go down over time, but it literally was everywhere and anywhere. I don't think I've gone through a match where AMS wasn't half eaten by the time I died or when the match was over.

[Abivard]

Shit in, shit out

[Bishop Steiner]

Paul Inouye, on 24 March 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Just to let you all know that I've been monitoring the LRM change and their performance on the battlefield. Yes... they are a tad fast... but far from "LRMageddon". Next patch the speed will be reduced by 15m/s. I.e. net change will be from 120 to 160 (instead of 175). I'm also reducing the amount of screenshake caused by LRM explosions slightly. (0.35 instead of 0.4)

It was important to watch the speed impact in gameplay for at least a week to see the actual change in overall gameplay. As you may or may not know, I do have the ability to remotely monitor specific and random games being played. I spent a large portion of my time last week monitoring gameplay of players of all Elo ranges. There were some interesting finds to say the least in terms of how players adapted to the speed change.

Don't think the speed change is needed, but do think reducing screen shake is huge. The most common tactic is to chain lrms, and people panic when that happens, do stupid stuff, and die. If nothing else, it should help the "perception" of LRMs being OP.

Sadly, this could all have been avoided simply by implementing the sized hardpoints that most of the CB vets have been clamoring for since then. But it seems that trying to nerf/buff individual weapons in a minmax environment is the preferred choice, in house.

Pity that.

It was nice to have a slight respite from Poptart domination. Maybe it's time to think outside the comfort zone, Paul?

Ghost heat has been mediocre at best.
Poptarts are the ones least affected my your Highlander and Victor nerfs.
Nerf one weapon into the ground, Meta just shifts to something else, until, eventually we are left with nothing but papercut weapons.
Nef/Buff is too often taken to extremes. Example: No one bothers with Art at 10 damage per explosion. Buff the damage FOUR TIMES and now the only thing more common than poptarts art the 2 dozen Arty/Airstrikes being dropped, per team.

Shame that helps PGI not at all, because no one is dumb enough to pay real money for consumables.

Seriously man, it's time you guys start really consulting at least core community members round robin style, like you used to in CB, and get a real pulse for thoughts of those who will be your financial support.

[Sephlock]

Paul Inouye, on 24 March 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Just to let you all know that I've been monitoring the LRM change and their performance on the battlefield. Yes... they are a tad fast... but far from "LRMageddon". Next patch the speed will be reduced by 15m/s. I.e. net change will be from 120 to 160 (instead of 175). I'm also reducing the amount of screenshake caused by LRM explosions slightly. (0.35 instead of 0.4)

It was important to watch the speed impact in gameplay for at least a week to see the actual change in overall gameplay. As you may or may not know, I do have the ability to remotely monitor specific and random games being played. I spent a large portion of my time last week monitoring gameplay of players of all Elo ranges. There were some interesting finds to say the least in terms of how players adapted to the speed change.

That teal makes my eyes hurt . But good to know .