Rare moment of feeling that LRMs are nerfed too much.
Not possible, if they removed locking from them entirely I would feel nothing. They are among the least fun weapon systems to play against in any game I have played. I can't even bring myself ot log on since anything under 70 kph is lrm food or sit and hide behind cover for 8 mins every match. I'ld much rather be playing something else.
Bottom line is this: when players (like me) are switching from your game to a Dark Souls (2) game in order to avoid un-fun, bullshit deaths, you are doing something very wrong lol.
Edited by Tw1stedMonkey, 01 April 2014 - 04:50 PM.
Not possible, if they removed locking from them entirely I would feel nothing. They are among the least fun weapon systems to play against in any game I have played. I can't even bring myself ot log on since anything under 70 kph is lrm food or sit and hide behind cover for 8 mins every match. I'ld much rather be playing something else.
Bottom line is this: when players (like me) are switching from your game to a Dark Souls (2) game in order to avoid un-fun, bullshit deaths, you are doing something very wrong lol.
Let me rephrase it.
The current nerf feels a lot closer to the pre-LRM buff than anything else. AMS wasn't nerfed at all, but it doesn't quite feel like I'd really need it as much now.
LRMs need a slight buff back up, but only 5-6 pts worth of speed (whatever that value is) and that's it.
Not possible, if they removed locking from them entirely I would feel nothing. They are among the least fun weapon systems to play against in any game I have played. I can't even bring myself ot log on since anything under 70 kph is lrm food or sit and hide behind cover for 8 mins every match. I'ld much rather be playing something else.
Bottom line is this: when players (like me) are switching from your game to a Dark Souls (2) game in order to avoid un-fun, bullshit deaths, you are doing something very wrong lol.
Of course you wouldn't. You won't be happy till they're a poor, slow LOS firing weapon you can dodge while asleep and ignore. We hold this truth to be self evident.
Deathlike, on 01 April 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:
Let me rephrase it.
The current nerf feels a lot closer to the pre-LRM buff than anything else. AMS wasn't nerfed at all, but it doesn't quite feel like I'd really need it as much now.
LRMs need a slight buff back up, but only 5-6 pts worth of speed (whatever that value is) and that's it.
Speed up to 200m/s so it actually is functional in competative 12mans.
LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.
Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:07 PM
This is what you get when the devs listen to lowbies crying in the forums. Guided missile nerf.
I suppose the silver lining is that LRMs are still somewhat effective, unlike the other guided missile.
I haven't met more than 4 LRM-equipped Mechs in my ELO bracket per side in the past week (1 of the Mechs being me). Does that look like something needs nerfing? You know, a CTF-4x with quad AC/5 is much more devastating than two LRM boats can ever be and has no nerfs incomming.
*snip*
Bottom line is this: when players (like me) are switching from your game to a Dark Souls (2) game in order to avoid un-fun, bullshit deaths, you are doing something very wrong lol.
Not possible, if they removed locking from them entirely I would feel nothing. They are among the least fun weapon systems to play against in any game I have played. I can't even bring myself ot log on since anything under 70 kph is lrm food or sit and hide behind cover for 8 mins every match. I'ld much rather be playing something else.
Bottom line is this: when players (like me) are switching from your game to a Dark Souls (2) game in order to avoid un-fun, bullshit deaths, you are doing something very wrong lol.
I think most of my mechs move at under 70kph, even as slow as 50+ in my Stalker, and i never have a problem with LRM's, and i don't hide behind cover all match.
When 3 of the top 5 scores in a reg pug match are LRM boats fairly often, (even top score) draw your own conclusion. A caustic drop with no boats vs 3 and 3 3L's is not pretty. If that is what is desired leave as is.
In the top 3 in score or tops for me in a VTR K with 2-15's and 2 LL. A mech I used to control a 600m area before the buff and 0-1 kill and 300 dmg avg with a very good win rate since started with this build, now is a top scoring mech. I know how to use LRMs and it is like a gravy boat with a silver spoon now.
I would suggest 140-150 but do as you please as it affects all of us equally. Do we want lrm online? They worked very well direct pre buff you know against all but lights. As a brawler I play less now.
edit: (even top score) = usually top score, even now
Just had to add this, do pilots think that @ 175 was good, you like putting yourself at no personal risk at all? %50 was clearly too much. And moreso in 1 step. No QQ here and not mad bro, just sayin.
People have varying playstyles and I get that, but is anything as boring as locking on to stuff you aren't even looking at holding down your giant lrm volley button and winning game after game without doing any work or coming to much if any personal risk? As long as the spotter mechs are doing well you don't have to do much of anything.
Maybe I'm part of a minority here because I play tabletop battletech, but the cluster table helps a lot to mitigate LRM damage just blasting anything and everything before they can bring weapons to bear at all.
Yes, being cored in my atlas by ACs in like 3 seconds is frustrating. But I can at least acknowledge that that guy had to be able to see me and that is more than I can say for LRM boats. Which are a thing, have been for ages and are always annoying but now there seem to be more of them and in my poor atlas, even with ECM and AMS combined I can get rained fire on for days. The defensive systems take up weight, take up slots, but don't seem to help me all that much. I get hit in the front of my CT by LRMs even when I turn my torso, even when I'm behind a building with my torso turned. I think... that is frustrating.
The SSRM bone lock system or whatever we're calling it might help lrms feel a bit less like a leafblower to anything that isn't a light mech. Maybe that should be looked into, I don't know.
People have varying playstyles and I get that, but is anything as boring as locking on to stuff you aren't even looking at holding down your giant lrm volley button and winning game after game without doing any work or coming to much if any personal risk? As long as the spotter mechs are doing well you don't have to do much of anything.
Because LRM's win games...
It takes more work to use LRM's effectively than it does with any direct-fire weapon (except if fired at new/bad players). Also, if you're using cover well then spotters should make little difference as having a spotter doesn't make cover vanish.
When 3 of the top 5 scores in a reg pug match are LRM boats fairly often, (even top score) draw your own conclusion. A caustic drop with no boats vs 3 and 3 3L's is not pretty. If that is what is desired leave as is.
In the top 3 in score or tops for me in a VTR K with 2-15's and 2 LL. A mech I used to control a 600m area before the buff and 0-1 kill and 300 dmg avg with a very good win rate since started with this build, now is a top scoring mech. I know how to use LRMs and it is like a gravy boat with a silver spoon now.
I would suggest 140-150 but do as you please as it affects all of us equally. Do we want lrm online? They worked very well direct pre buff you know against all but lights. As a brawler I play less now.
edit: (even top score) = usually top score, even now
Just had to add this, do pilots think that @ 175 was good, you like putting yourself at no personal risk at all? %50 was clearly too much. And moreso in 1 step. No QQ here and not mad bro, just sayin.
A few misconceptions here.
1. Now that the Stalker Trial boat is gone, I see less than 4 LRM boats per match on average and on more than a few occasions, 2 at most. Even with the new Catapult A champion (which is more of a streak boat, but solid on LRMs) they don't show up that often because people often shy away from ammo only mechs.
2. My damage has gone up yes, but this is also a poor measure of true effectivness. Kills matters most. I do admit my kills have increased per match by 1-2, when I was almost never cracking 3-4 in a match before. I still have never topped 5, but I do know people who have with LRM mechs (not even boats) who have on infrequent occasion get 5+. Compared to kill snaking lights and AC builds who do this far more regularly and with more damage, LRMs are finally approaching parity with them, meaning they are coming more into balance, not getting OP.
3. You think that the LRM pilot is putting themselves at no personal risk? If you boat LRMs, you are at significant personal risk. It is just not immediately apparent. Often you are not only a walking ammo can, you have a slower engine, AND almost no backup weaponry. Your game is not based on twitch reflexes on how fast you can poptart and shoot accurately. Yours is based on map knowledge, situational awareness and patience. It takes time to develop a lock, hold it, know how to tell by the motion of a target they're behind cover when you can't see the target. And this may make you think that the LRM pilot has no risk. Of course then the lights roll in or the front shifts suddenly and our slow mech can't react fast enough and we get swarmed with nothing but maybe a few small or medium lasers with which to defend ourselves unlike the AC boats which then just shoot alpha strikes at point blank range. The LRM boat's fortunes turn on a dime if they're not good. This is the risk.
4. You still do not see competative teams using LRMs in 12mans. Till you do, they are not balanced. That's the real proof of it in the end. I understand part of why you don't see it though. PGI wants MWO to be one of the next 'esport' games. Sad part is, only the hardcore will play on that level and devote their time and money to it, not the casual gamer who has neither the time, inclination, skill or equipment to participate... but they do have lots of money they will spend on games they love and can come in and play casually.
Here's something to consider. We have 3 weapon system types. Only 2 (Energy/Ballistics) are functional in a competative level and tend to dominate the game even if it is only a couple of weapons in that group while others languish. The third (Missiles) has not been able to compete since the REAL LRMpocalypse was caused by a series of errors way back in closed beta. Real balance between systems would be with all things being equal, each type of weapon build should be able to win against each other half the time when facing off. If blended together, it should form a synergistic balance. Right now, that does not exist because one system is being artificially kept worse than the others and that's missiles in general.
Now Missiles are improving but they are a long way off from being balanced with the other two systems. SRMs... who seriously takes them right now because of the hit reg problems being so bad? Only PUGs who don't know better or don't care. Streaks suffer such bad randomness of hit locations they are barely a threat at any mech over 40 tons limiting their usefulness, AND the buffed AMS shoots them down faster rendering them useless in so many cases. LRMs moved in the right direction, but did not move far enough yet. The screams of QQ from those immersed in the poptart meta made it possible to stop balance from coming there. The NARC at least is FINALLY worth it's weight and devotion required... it just lacks the proper Cbill and XP reward equal to its impact.
While guidance is a major anger point to the meta crowd who currently has the ear of PGI, indirect fire has a separate issue because it is a unique characteristic to LRMs. Streaks are guided but can't really go indirect. This is a balance issue between the three systems because lasers... well you can't go indrect, but ballistics can. There is a lore based balance for this in the form of Mech Mortars. Fast and unguided, sensor targets could be shot at in range and land fairly quickly without warning so they'd be great at dealing with stationary hiding targets. An alternate idea to provide this ability to ballistics bringing balance. But there's one small roadblock in the way of that solution: the players themselves.
Too many players want to make MWO a face to face brawl (even if it's not really face to face but a sniper poptart duel) and will accept nothing less. That's fine, but then LRMs are always going to be the poor odd cousin these groups would like nothing more than to eliminate or turn into a slow, poor, spreading weapon with no tactical use on the battlefield (lern 2 play noob!!1!) as compared to the pavlovian twitch crew who currently dominate. Adding more indirect fire weapons I think would go a long way to also bringing smarter tactical play instead of creating a game that is nothing more than a glorified version of this:
So you want a thinking man's 'shooter'? Then you gotta stop giving in to the strictly twitch based shooter behaviors and incorporate low twitch strategic thinking which indirect and guided weapons force into the game.
I'm not a poptart, or a boat, I try to be a bit more rounded. But the sheer amount of spammed lrms I have had to deal with is ridiculous. It is spam, simply put, and no you are not at personal risk until someone gets to you, sure. EVERYONE you are in range of is at risk because of higher than it ought to be ratio of lrm ct hits. The cover argument is obviously, and I do mean obviously, not always valid. Also, standing there in cover while it rains missiles is not a whole lot of fun. Fun is what games are about. When it ceases to be fun is there a problem with the game or just a bunch of exploiting dbags who play it? I've been through that before, I used to play call of duty before they made a game like this that appealed to me more.
I'm not a poptart, or a boat, I try to be a bit more rounded. But the sheer amount of spammed lrms I have had to deal with is ridiculous. It is spam, simply put, and no you are not at personal risk until someone gets to you, sure. EVERYONE you are in range of is at risk because of higher than it ought to be ratio of lrm ct hits. The cover argument is obviously, and I do mean obviously, not always valid. Also, standing there in cover while it rains missiles is not a whole lot of fun. Fun is what games are about. When it ceases to be fun is there a problem with the game or just a bunch of exploiting dbags who play it? I've been through that before, I used to play call of duty before they made a game like this that appealed to me more.
Give us indirect LRMs at 120m/s (old speed) and direct fire LRMs at the speed of a PPC (1200m/s?) with an almost flat arc. No indirect fire without TAG/UAV/NARC.
Problem solved...then all the LRM whiners have nothing to complain about.
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Deathlike, on 01 April 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:
