102 replies to this topic

[R Razor]

meteorol, on 01 April 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Drop behind, too busy to notice? He could do nothing but stare at the monitor, he still wouldn't notice the HUGE cloud of RED smoke, because it's behind him.

And several seconds are five. If you don't run a 350+ engine on an assault, and are not moving at full speed the moment the red smoke appears infront of you, you will be hit. Even if you accelerate to full speed, those 5 seconds will get you nowhere. Dodging air/arti strikes in an assault which goes like 60 kph is not possible if you are not already moving. And noone uses consumables on already moving targets.

You should pilot an atlas once in a while, and see how far you get with those several seconds worth of MOVEMENT opportunity. Hint: you won't get out of an arti strike if you are not already running at full speed.

No, you fat boys should learn that movement is life no matter how big you are and give up standing in one spot behind a hill or building tossing LRM's at targets other folks spot for you.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Mystere, on 01 April 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

If a sniper did not see the big red smoke, then his situational awareness was lacking. As such, maybe that is the wrong role for him because situational awareness goes with the job.

It happens quite a few times, the giant red smoke that pops up from an arty, is actually NOT visible if you don't move around much. Believe me if I saw a cloud of red smoke in front of my cockpit, I'd be out of there, but I DID NOT see any red smoke. My sight was as clear as day, hence why I was so surprised when I was hit with it. It had nothing to do with situational awareness, the fact is if your relatively still, you don't see the smoke when somebody pops on arty from on the front or back of your mech. And obviously I want to be still to get good shots. And to your other point, yes I realize its important to not be seen but that is a fanciful goal to be hidden all the time on every map. Try that on frozen city and try gettign past the standard 800 m sensor lock on every map, doesn't always go my way, I'll tell you that right now. As much as I'd love to be able to always get 850 m distance between me and the action. Point is Arties are bull, and they need either a warning system or for the red smoke to actually be visible when your stationary. That still doesn't solve the issue of being bale to drop arties from 1200 m behind somebody or the fact that assaults are always screwed by arty.

[Mystere]

Here's an alternative to calls for more nerfs: Why not ask for more useful modules?

Why can't we also have cluster bombs, mines, smoke, airburst, incendiaries, etc., etc., etc.?

If all people ask for are never ending nerfs ...

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Mystere, on 01 April 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

If a sniper did not see the big red smoke, then his situational awareness was lacking. As such, maybe that is the wrong role for him because situational awareness goes with the job.

Drop in 12s queue and see how your situational awareness lacks 12+ artys spamming while getting pinpoint to yer face have nothing to do with situational awareness. High elo pug games don't differ that much. 5 second delay you need to get the info immediately or you're gonna eat an arty shell. Especially in pugs you don't get that info in time...

[Mystere]

R Razor, on 01 April 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

No, you fat boys should learn that movement is life no matter how big you are and give up standing in one spot behind a hill or building tossing LRM's at targets other folks spot for you.

And people are wondering why many players have the attitude of "Go big or go home!", and why same said attitude is constantly being reinforced day in day out.

[R Razor]

Instead of focusing entirely on where you hope your enemy is going to expose himself so you can get that snapshot meta FLD Pin Point alpha off, or instead of focusing exclusively on each little red triangle one of your team mates is lighting up for your super 1337 LRM boat to rain hate on, maybe keep moving, look around occasionally, work with a wing man and watch each others back........might have better results, and would definitely get more respect from your team as well as the enemy if you tried that instead of QQing about how OP a module is while you run around in your metabuilds and LRM ezmode boats.

[Mystere]

R Razor, on 01 April 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

Instead of focusing entirely on where you hope your enemy is going to expose himself so you can get that snapshot meta FLD Pin Point alpha off, or instead of focusing exclusively on each little red triangle one of your team mates is lighting up for your super 1337 LRM boat to rain hate on, maybe keep moving, look around occasionally, work with a wing man and watch each others back........might have better results, and would definitely get more respect from your team as well as the enemy if you tried that instead of QQing about how OP a module is while you run around in your metabuilds and LRM ezmode boats.

And another prevailing player attitude is: If you're doing anything other than hurling large amounts of firepower at the enemy, then you're useless and your mech is useless. Which again reinforces the prevailing "Go big or go home!" attitude.

Of course, all of these indicate to me that we really have something worse than any perceived balance problem. What we have is a severe player problem.

Edited by Mystere, 01 April 2014 - 04:37 PM.

[sokitumi]

Mystere, on 01 April 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

zzz

Mystere, you're like the champion of the sad cause that is defense of the arty (and paul's genius?... cough). You've posted like 5+ posts in as many pages on this thread and are one of like 2 people willing to stand up for this broken bs. The other one is busy calling anyone who questions this an lrm assault whiner. Zzz children right?

Anyway...I understand your points, I really do, and there's some validity there, on the surface. There is a place for this system in mwo- but how can you not see it's massive flaws as it currently exists? Can you seriously say that you don't see how they totally threw the numbers from this last event weekend off? How this weapon system that isn't really a weapon system is being abused in high elo games and 12 mans?

See, there's a difference to saying "nerf this nerf that" and saying a buff was simply ridiculous. But you seem to be a'ok with a 400% buff to a non-weapon system that is pretty controversial in the first place. This type of game balancing is amateur at best, but since the nature of the weapon is what is, it's more like p2w OR a massive c-bill nerf.

I digress into lrm's here but it's related as another symptom of this disease -----------

We should be seeing buff's and nerf's at a rate that far exceeds what we've experienced in the last 2 years. The LRM buff at the same time as narc was ridiculous too, how can one possibly get metrics with that kind of bizarre calculus to analyze any one system. Further, we need 9 months since the last 'fix' to analyze the system and come up with another 'fix'? wt...f.... does the balance department work like 1 day a week?

Edited by sokitumi, 01 April 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[Mystere]

sokitumi, on 01 April 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

zzz ZZZ ZZZ

This game is in such a sorry state right now in no small part because of all the time and energy wasted handling all the calls to "Nerf this, nerf that!" -- not to mention all the time and energy wasted on building the "perfect" "balanced" "matchmaker" for what is nothing more than a PUG queue originally intended as a mere placeholder, precious resources better spent building missing pieces like ... I don't know ... Community Warfare?

But I digress ...

Artillery is supposed to hurt. It is supposed to hurt badly and have a chance to kill you outright. That is what it was meant to do ever since this warlike species called humanity invented it.

Also, we have a whole lot of stuff already reduced (arguably) to near uselessness because of these endless calls for nerfs.

So I am presenting an alternative. Instead of nerfing things into oblivion and beyond, why not add new and better things to the mix, good things that will make the use of artillery not look so "mandatory" as so many so-called "elite" "high level" "top Elo" "competitive" players claim they are.

And, finally, with regard to your comment about being outnumbered in this discussion, all I can say is: A million flies can't be wrong, right?

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Yeah well, I dunno Mystere... 800 potential damage AoE with a chance to instakill or cripple enemy is quite tough to compete with.

[Mystere]

ugrakarma, on 01 April 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

Yeah well, I dunno Mystere... 800 potential damage AoE with a chance to instakill or cripple enemy is quite tough to compete with.

The key phrases are "potential damage" and "chance to instakill". The potential is really only close to achievable if the enemy team is stupid enough to clump very tightly together, presenting a juicy target. And that chance of instakill is really lower than what people exaggerate about.

And as with most calls for nerfs, it's probably more likely than not a case of "XXX killed me! Nerf XXX!".

[meteorol]

R Razor, on 01 April 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

No, you fat boys should learn that movement is life no matter how big you are and give up standing in one spot behind a hill or building tossing LRM's at targets other folks spot for you.

This is like the most childish, biased, inconsiderate post i have seen for quite some time now. I was about to make a long post on how wrong you are on so many levels, but you are not even worth 3 minutes of my time.
Put on ignore list, may i never see your incoherent, biased babbling again.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Mystere, on 01 April 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

The key phrases are "potential damage" and "chance to instakill".

Yup. Nuff for most of us!

[Mystere]

ugrakarma, on 01 April 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

Yup. Nuff for most of us!

And which is why MWO is in the sorry state it is in right now.

[sokitumi]

Mystere, on 01 April 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

This game is in such a sorry state right now in no small part because of all the time and energy wasted handling all the calls to "Nerf this, nerf that!" -- not to mention all the time and energy wasted on building the "perfect" "balanced" "matchmaker" for what is nothing more than a PUG queue originally intended as a mere placeholder, precious resources better spent building missing pieces like ... I don't know ... Community Warfare?
..
Also, we have a whole lot of stuff already reduced (arguably) to near uselessness because of these endless calls for nerfs.

This is a false assumption and a straw man argument. There are what 40+ people working at this company? It's been 2YEARS and they haven't made a decent matchmaker, released one iota of meaningful info on CW, and rebalanced items at a ridiculously slow rate or rebalanced in strange and 'inventive' ways. Take the Gauss Rifle for example... strange and bizarre non mechanic that makes it mostly useless when mixed with any normal config. Ghost heat itself.... nvm.

The point is, in 2 years we've seen maybe what 3 maybe 4(?) total changes to LRMS. Arty was nerfed once to useless and then brought back as ridiculous. PPC's like again 3 fix's? See this isn't exactly agile response to forums about nerf requests. If anything I'd say management straight up ignores the forums and community until it boils over.

Mystere, on 01 April 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Artillery is supposed to hurt. It is supposed to hurt badly and have a chance to kill you outright. That is what it was meant to do ever since this warlike species called humanity invented it.

In what universe can you get an artillery shell on coordinates in 5 seconds?

[Mystere]

What does this:

sokitumi, on 02 April 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

In what universe can you get an artillery shell on coordinates in 5 seconds?

have to do with this:

Mystere, on 01 April 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Artillery is supposed to hurt. It is supposed to hurt badly and have a chance to kill you outright. That is what it was meant to do ever since this warlike species called humanity invented it.

[Joseph Mallan]

sokitumi, on 02 April 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

In what universe can you get an artillery shell on coordinates in 5 seconds?

Well 2007 had 11 second flight times and we are 1,043 years in the future... 5 seconds is not a huge amount of time compared to 1,000+ years!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 April 2014 - 08:22 AM.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 April 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Well 2007 had 11 second flight times and we are 1,043 years in the future... 5 seconds is not a huge amount of time compared to 1,000+ years!

Lostech

Edited by 3rdworld, 02 April 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 02 April 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

Lostech

Touche'

sad but touche'

[Bobzilla]

Keep moving, all i can think of is an atlas walking in circles behind a moutain in alpine while both sides are ridge hummping.

Gotta maintain situational awareness, gotta keep moving, maybe its behind me now! No, gotta keep mo-MAYBE NOW!! No gotta keep moving.....