61 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

Fix the hit boxes.

It is asinine that the leg and back CT hit boxes remain so big after the supposed hit box review that PGI did. Seriously.. track statistics on the cause of destruction on the mech and it should highlight a very serious problem with them.

[Hans Von Lohman]

And go back to the days when the Raven legs could never be hit? No, they were changed for a reason.

How soon people forget.

[Foxfire]

Hans Von Lohman, on 01 April 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

And go back to the days when the Raven legs could never be hit? No, they were changed for a reason.

How soon people forget.

You do realize that the fix was to HSR, not the hit box.. and that the hit box fix was a temporary fix that was never removed.

Seriously, when a disproportionate amount of deaths for a chassis comes from as single source.. you really should consider addressing that issue.

Edited by Foxfire, 01 April 2014 - 08:06 PM.

[Foxfire]

And just to illustrate this point.. 5 out of 7 matches tonight have ended with me legged. one with me surviving and the other with a side torso destruction.

Edited by Foxfire, 01 April 2014 - 08:43 PM.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

The problem with Ravens was they were a terrifying streak boat at a time when streak missiles, ECM and light mechs (due to hit detection) were all broken at the same time. All of those have been fixed to varying degrees but the Raven's legs are still artificially hobbled for no good reason any more.

[Foxfire]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 01 April 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

The problem with Ravens was they were a terrifying streak boat at a time when streak missiles, ECM and light mechs (due to hit detection) were all broken at the same time. All of those have been fixed to varying degrees but the Raven's legs are still artificially hobbled for no good reason any more.

Which is what needs to be fixed for the mech to be anything more than an anomaly in this game. I love the 3L, 4X, and the new hero mech but the fact that most of my deaths are due to leggings, mostly due to the artificially infalted sizes of the leg hit boxes, really irks me.

[Jam the Bam]

A large part of what you are seeing is the fact that people have learned how to shoot and where to shoot light mechs. I play heavy and medium mechs primarily and I will always aim for the legs if possible, knowing that if I get the shot right I have done far more towards stopping the light mech than shooting the torso which (especially on the spider) takes a disproportionate amount of damage due to the difficulty in pinpointing hitboxes.

[Equalizer]

Jammerben87, on 02 April 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

A large part of what you are seeing is the fact that people have learned how to shoot and where to shoot light mechs. I play heavy and medium mechs primarily and I will always aim for the legs if possible, knowing that if I get the shot right I have done far more towards stopping the light mech than shooting the torso which (especially on the spider) takes a disproportionate amount of damage due to the difficulty in pinpointing hitboxes.

While I agree that legs are usually the easiest way to disable/kill a light, people's marksmanship has nothing to do with it in the case of the Raven. Its legs are just artificially inflated to a point that you can just shoot in their general direction and still hit (Locust was like that too before they shrunk its leg hitboxes recently and it is noticeably harder to leg now). I know this from both experience piloting lights (including Ravens) and shooting them - Jenners and Firestarters for example are way harder to leg, because you have to actually aim for the leg itself, not just randomly shoot around it. I won't even start on the Spider - suffice to say it feels like god-mode when you hop into one after piloting a Raven a few games.

[AllSpark]

Raven 3L is the only Mech I pilot these days as it suits my playstyle. I rarely get legged in my Raven and that is because I run the 2xERLL meta build and engage targets at range - my chicken legs tend to be protected by some ridge line most of the time. Raven is not much of a brawler, Ravens strenght is in kiting and sniping where it excels all other lights as it can present a really small target with its high mounted weapons.

I suspect that if you "track statistics on the cause of destruction on the mech", -you find that Ravens don't get legged that often as the 2xERLL build is very popular one. Spiders on the other hand almost always get legged before they get destroyed - that is the way to kill a Spider.

Edited by AllSpark, 02 April 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[Amsro]

I agree, you can shoot between a spiders legs but the raven and the previous locust had no such opening. Almost anywhere in the leg area is pretty well a hit.

Then again 30 - 40 damage will remove a leg anyway. A good shot will still troll you.

[Lucian Nostra]

Did they actually make the legs larger than they used to be? been getting mine shredded in no time..

[Foxfire]

Lucian Nostra, on 02 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Did they actually make the legs larger than they used to be? been getting mine shredded in no time..

Yep.. they increased the size of the leg and rear CT hit box during the whole Super Raven fiasco last year as a stop gap fix until they could get HSR working for the mech..

They got the HSR working and forgot to remove the stopgap measure which is where we get to the current state of the Raven.

[Damia Savon]

I agree.. I pretty much get legged way more often than getting hit anywhere else.

[Hans Von Lohman]

All light mechs die to being legged. The Raven isn't special in any way.

[Foxfire]

Hans Von Lohman, on 03 April 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

All light mechs die to being legged. The Raven isn't special in any way.

Only if you don't count how easy it is to leg compared to other lights.

When you consider that, then it is a VERY special mech... in the 'derp' sort of way.

I estimate that I am batting around 75-80% of the matches tonight where I have at least one leg blown off.

Edited by Foxfire, 03 April 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Foxfire, on 01 April 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

Fix the hit boxes.

It is asinine that the leg and back CT hit boxes remain so big after the supposed hit box review that PGI did. Seriously.. track statistics on the cause of destruction on the mech and it should highlight a very serious problem with them.

Leg Hitboxes aren't really that huge. You will find legging is the number one method for killing ALL Light mechs. It's quicker and easier to take out a leg, in general, than the rest of the hitboxes on pretty much all Lights. And once you do get a Leg, the rest follows.

CT could use a little of the Catapult affect, I suppose, but do you REALLY want to pop more side torsos and make running XLs a dicier proposition?

[Foxfire]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

Leg Hitboxes aren't really that huge. You will find legging is the number one method for killing ALL Light mechs. It's quicker and easier to take out a leg, in general, than the rest of the hitboxes on pretty much all Lights. And once you do get a Leg, the rest follows.

CT could use a little of the Catapult affect, I suppose, but do you REALLY want to pop more side torsos and make running XLs a dicier proposition?

It isn't the legging, it is the legging in comparison with other light mechs. I pilot most light mechs(with the exception of the Commando) and no other light mechs I pilot is legged near as often as the Raven is.

My deaths in a Jenner tend to be CT or rear CT, my deaths in the Firestarter tend to be CT or Side torso(including the rears). My deaths in the Locust tend to be people who look at me too long.. and spiders are a fluke due to how wonky they are, even after the server 'fix'. Ravens, however, I can go to Vagas and make a high percentage bet that I will either die by complete legging or die because I was legged.

I wish I could find a Raven on the test grounds so that I could make a definitive video demonstrating the problem but they simply don't exist.

[Bishop Steiner]

Foxfire, on 03 April 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

It isn't the legging, it is the legging in comparison with other light mechs. I pilot most light mechs(with the exception of the Commando) and no other light mechs I pilot is legged near as often as the Raven is.

My deaths in a Jenner tend to be CT or rear CT, my deaths in the Firestarter tend to be CT or Side torso(including the rears). My deaths in the Locust tend to be people who look at me too long.. and spiders are a fluke due to how wonky they are, even after the server 'fix'. Ravens, however, I can go to Vagas and make a high percentage bet that I will either die by complete legging or die because I was legged.

I wish I could find a Raven on the test grounds so that I could make a definitive video demonstrating the problem but they simply don't exist.

Legs usually have less armor than a CT. When I take on leg, I have usually damaged the other leg, with splash and missed shots. Thus it makes more sense, to take the other leg than core through heavier armor on a CT. (Back armor being the exception, though the number of times my damage has splashed onto sides from this on Lights can be irksome).

Not saying they are perfect, they may be slightly out of proportion, but almost every time I die in a Light, I have a leg taken first (though an occasional ST rear coring is in the mix, too).

I will also point out that the Raven in game model, has the longest, most noticeable legs. When I target them, the things I see are the Beak (CT) and the Legs. Thus, those things will naturally draw more fire.

So much like the poor Dragon and Awesome, short of total redesign of the in game model, I doubt we CAN see much improvement.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 April 2014 - 04:18 PM.

[Foxfire]

What we can see is a tightening of the leg hit boxes to better match what is in the model. For example, as noted earlier in this thread, there are light mechs that have gap between their legs that will do no damage.

Again, I have no problem with going down with leg damage.. unless it is at a disproportionate rate in comparison with other mechs of the same class.

This is no different, really, than Awesome's going down with their massive CT's in comparison with their side torsos and other assaults.

[Daekar]

Bishop has it. If you look at the proportioning of the Raven model, the legs are huge. HUGE. They easily take up more screen real estate than the body. I never ever bother shooting Ravens in the body - damage spreads too easily. I guarantee that the last 10 Ravens I've killed have all been legged, possibly double-legged, and that's not hit boxes that's my conscious decision based on the appearance of the model.

I wish the effing Spider had legs the size of a Raven's.