450 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

moneyBURNER, on 03 April 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

I still don't get why PGI hasn't tried modifying the current two queues into:

1) solo-only
2) any size groups and solo

This should satisfy EVERYBODY from a competitive standpoint, and would absolutely rejuvenate group-play. Any difficulty in filling grouped matches would be self-corrected by groups being able to pull in additional individual players, and also by solo players that would be increasingly drawn to matches involving competently co-ordinated teammates.

Russ addressed this in the NGNG 105a interview. Something about how internal testing showed...blah,blah,blah, just doesn't work something or other, blah,blah,blah... they know fun better than we do... over 100 years of development experience, blah, blah, blah... programming is hard or something like that.

[Thanatos676]

DaZur, I can't like what your OP said more then once sadly. What you said was heartfelt and oh so true. If you want to have more fun with this game, join a group! It is NOT about pug smashing and other lame excuses people come up with to vilify people who are in units, its about making friends and fightin' round the Inner Sphere! It's about be able to drink beer and watch giant robots shoot each other with big beamy death rays and giant bullets with friends! ITS ABOUT COMRADESHIP AND FUN! Join a unit and experience a whole new level of play and fun times.

Just so you all know, I am a LT. in Echo company of the Aces Wild Merc Corps. We play for fun first and foremost. We have good relations with other units, do scrimmages and have our own internal events like Pirate nights (tiral mechs vs customized mechs) and MC rewards for tournaments that certain companies within the Aces are promoting and sponsoring.

The gist is this, Joining a unit does not mean having fun at the expense of others but having fun WITH others. I hope people realize the difference.

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 03 April 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

I'm self-admitted, and a chronic one at that.

But seriously, it's easier to construct my points w/o sounding ragey. I don't think it always works because there's nothing like trying to win the last match of the night... on Mordor.... I mean... I can't always be composed every time I post. It would be unnatural!

One simply doesn't post coherently and calmly after Mordor... amirite?

I know what you mean, though. I had a game last night, my last one, on Canyon Network - my most HATED of all maps cause I seem to f it up no matter what I do (it is my Centurion of maps, if that makes sense). We're up 9-5 on Assault with like 4 minutes left in the match. I'm cored and ready to fall over, two or three of the others have NO weapons, and yet we're sitting on the edge of their base trying to kill a Stalker (cored), Dragon (cored), and something else. I've got lead so I'm telling everyone to pull back to our base - we've got the numbers edge so why try to push it. Know what happens? Yep! They bum rush us and we fold. I'm raging on the inside wondering why the PUGGERs didn't freaking listen.

In the end, Murphy's Law (no, not you Joe/Doc) rules. Anything that PUGs can do badly, they will do badly.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 03 April 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[Deathlike]

Roadbeer, on 03 April 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Start of match: "For the love of god, do not go to the PUGZAPPER"
2 minutes into match as myself and the 3 I'm with walk past the traffic jam forming on the edge of the PUGZAPPER, "Die on your own, and make sure to go in one at a time, the other team loves that"

At this point, I'm thinking of just spamming something on Mordor pre-match (like on Alpine):
"PUSH INTO DOME ASAP OR DIE CAMPING"

That might work. It's kinda worked great for "H9 or DIE" on Alpine.

Trauglodyte, on 03 April 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

One simply doesn't post coherently and calmly after Mordor... amirite?

HODOR!

[Roadbeer]

Deathlike, on 03 April 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

HODOR!

You know nothing, Forestcolony Snow

[AlmightyAeng]

DaZur, on 03 April 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

Truth told... She actually encourages my participation. Aside from being a youth football coach, I don't have many vices and PC gaming is effectively my "hobby" so she's good with my vested time.

That said, I made an earnest promise to her to not put my "hobby" before her and the family or real-life® commitments and that's a promise made with serious undertones.

So "nope"... never stayed on past my 1st warning shot... My son on the other hand? Well, let's say mama-Z knows where the power button is and she's not afraid to execute it with extreme prejudice.

Just remember man, when she goes to bed early and asks you if you want to join her...tell your guys, "Gotta go!" She isn't asking you because she's sleepy

[wanderer]

Almond Brown, on 03 April 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Comms I will give you, but what reason do you have to need to see my Mechs load-out? Assuming it would happen after we load in, it doesn't really matter then does it, because it can't be changed for that Match anyways.

I was driving my Catapult around last week.

At least twice, people complained I wasn't firing LRMs.

It has an MPL, 3 ML's and two Streak racks. No LRMs. Be nice if people actually could see what I was tooling around in rather than assuming it was the Usual Suspects.

[Trauglodyte]

wanderer, on 03 April 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

I was driving my Catapult around last week. At least twice, people complained I wasn't firing LRMs. It has an MPL, 3 ML's and two Streak racks. No LRMs. Be nice if people actually could see what I was tooling around in rather than assuming it was the Usual Suspects.

Heretic!!!

[Craig Steele]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 April 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Murphy's Law participation requirement:
2 Drink Minimum!

This also describes my dating strategies

Roadbeer, on 03 April 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

At what point does catering to the solo player start becoming a detriment to the group player though?
I'm starting to see a whole lot of "If we can't give the solo players X, then we should prohibit the group players from having Y" but if Y is required for group play, you begin alienating the group players, which has been proven time and again, are the cash cow for a games longevity.

Can you give example of these things you're seeing about solo players getting X vs Group players.

Also, whats your source that group players are the cash cow that has been proven time and again.

Thanks

[Roadbeer]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Can you give example of these things you're seeing about solo players getting X vs Group players.

Ok, here's one example.
Solo players can't have integrated VoIP (because reasons) but large groups are ROFLSTOMPING PUGs (later proven to be untrue, also, in instances where the group was 6 or whatever, the 2 PUGs on the team didn't seem to mind the win, only when they perceived they were getting stomped did they QQ) so, large groups were "temporarily" removed (over 500 days ago) and limited to 4 or 8, then 12.
In this example, because solos were unable to have VoIP, Groups were unable to play with their friends = Pandering to the solo player.

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Also, whats your source that group players are the cash cow that has been proven time and again.
Thanks

Can't believe I need to keep reposting this...

http://www.slideshar...ion-europe-2013
Slide 43

Quote

Guild members spend 10x-20x more than non-guild members

Taking that data, a small guild of 10 members is likely to have a monetization value of 100 - 200 solo players. Larger communities like House Marik with a couple hundred active members is likely to spend the same as up to 2000 solo players.

Quote

Strong correlation as guilds improve retention and monetization with late stage players

That is to say that members of Guilds are likely to stay longer in the game, compounding the monetization potential over non-guild members.

This data has been shown at many different conferences I just easily pulled up this one, feel free to research further

Edited by Roadbeer, 03 April 2014 - 05:28 PM.

[Craig Steele]

Roadbeer, on 03 April 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

Ok, here's one example.
Solo players can't have integrated VoIP (because reasons) but large groups are ROFLSTOMPING PUGs (later proven to be untrue, also, in instances where the group was 6 or whatever, the 2 PUGs on the team didn't seem to mind the win, only when they perceived they were getting stomped did they QQ) so, large groups were "temporarily" removed (over 500 days ago) and limited to 4 or 8, then 12.
In this example, because solos were unable to have VoIP, Groups were unable to play with their friends = Pandering to the solo player.

Can't believe I need to keep reposting this...

http://www.slideshar...ion-europe-2013
Slide 43


Taking that data, a small guild of 10 members is likely to have a monetization value of 100 - 200 solo players. Larger communities like House Marik with a couple hundred active members is likely to spend the same as up to 2000 solo players.

That is to say that members of Guilds are likely to stay longer in the game, compounding the monetization potential over non-guild members.

This data has been shown at many different conferences I just easily pulled up this one, feel free to research further

Looks like you know more than PGI then.

You should forward this data to them I suggest

If their largest player demographic is not driving their cashflow, its commercially unviable to support that demographic with resources.

[Kaldor]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

Looks like you know more than PGI then.

You should forward this data to them I suggest

If their largest player demographic is not driving their cashflow, its commercially unviable to support that demographic with resources.

Absolute crazy talk!

BTW: never tell Roadbeer he might know more than the devs....

[Craig Steele]

Kaldor, on 03 April 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

Absolute crazy talk!

BTW: never tell Roadbeer he might know more than the devs....

LOL, no way.

I strongly suspect that its not correct for MW:O. Theres a big difference between the MMO RPG Guild mentality and the MW:O game play. In my experience, people have greater affiliation with their toon in a MMORPG and thats where the revenue drives from, new clothes or whatever. I see an awful lot of camo green in MW:O. But sure, I can agree about tenure being a revenue multiplier too.

But no matter what I think, I don't have any numbers specific for PGI so my thoughts, like Roadbeers, is personal opinion based on anecdotal experience.

All I do is look at what PGI have said, which is that they perceive the game needs to accommodate the majority demographic they have identified. They have also said they are going to empower team play with more choices and options so I still don't get what all the angst is about.

The only real change I can see is that PGI are removing the ability of Pre Made teams to wail on PUG's over and over. I don't see that as a bad thing but then I've never been in the boat of wailing on PUG's for laughs.

So why are people upset with the change.

Don't like 3/3/3/3, set the game mode yourself and play with your friends / Guild
Want to play Clan vs IS pure canon, set the game mode and set the lobbies with your friends / Guild
Want to play with comms against a real opponent, post on forums that you're looking for a match or check the external server sites for opposition.

I mean honestly, as Da Zur said in the OP, theres a lot more to enjoy from the game with teams / Guilds so why do they seem so insistent on wailing on PUG's as well. Play the game you prefer with the tools PGI provided against an equally enabled opponent.

Why are people upset that Pre Made Teams / Guilds will have more empowerment to play the game their way than PUG's locked into a drop structure playing with only in game sounds.

The only realistic answer I can come up in my mind is that the vocal ones not only want all the options, they also want food to blow away with all their advantages (read, numpty PUG's fighting with one arm tied behind their back).

If thats so, I'm not shedding a tear.

From PGI's view point, if 84% of their player base is dropping solo then they absolutely should accommodate that market. After all, some of those solo players are the "team" players of the future.

[-Natural Selection-]

You can argue this crap into the ground and nothing is going to please people till they are handed a win situation every match. People cant get past the fact that random situations are never going to result in average fair match. And until then people are going to complain and PGI is going to have to keep dicking with group and weapon balance thus not working on CW. freaking quit it and let them finish damn.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 April 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

I will have to go to the NA server for a test of this. To my admittedly limited use, I have never had much of a problem getting picked up for a group, and had fun with the gents I dropped with. Not once did I run into a Jerk, uncooperative player teaming up that way.

But it is worth looking into again as times have changed.

IDK. I'm on Comstar NA a lot. And when not there I can always drop into House Steiners Server, the Comstar Irregulars Server, or even , shockingly, House Mariks server. (The Bacons great, and while their politicians are a bunch of devisive civil war mongering horse's rears, the armed forces of the FWLM are shockingly united. Good thing for my Commonwealth that their overall politicos are more backwards than my own!!!)

[Roadbeer]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

IDK. I'm on Comstar NA a lot. And when not there I can always drop into House Steiners Server, the Comstar Irregulars Server, or even , shockingly, House Mariks server. (The Bacons great, and while their politicians are a bunch of devisive civil war mongering horse's rears, the armed forces of the FWLM are shockingly united. Good thing for my Commonwealth that their overall politicos are more backwards than my own!!!)

Always welcome, c'mon down to Dropship Bacon sometime. We're in the Redmoon Angels bays

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadbeer, on 03 April 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

Always welcome, c'mon down to Dropship Bacon sometime. We're in the Redmoon Angels bays

might not be tonight, but you know I'll take you guys up on it. And Marik Mondays are a hoot. I may be a Steiner by birth, but I'm a merc at heart, thank goodness!

[Roadbeer]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

might not be tonight, but you know I'll take you guys up on it. And Marik Mondays are a hoot. I may be a Steiner by birth, but I'm a merc at heart, thank goodness!

We just called it a night so we could read you kinda loosing your shit on Twitter

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadbeer, on 03 April 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

We just called it a night so we could read you kinda loosing your shit on Twitter

lol.

Hey, I have been a pretty staid supporter of this game since inception. But when Russ n crew get stupid, I have never been afraid to tell them. When they forced 3pV, I blew them up over it. (in fact, was one of the people who ended up causing such a stink they removed the old GenDis lobby, if you recall). I just don't act like Khobai or Vassago where I complain for the sake of complaining.

But this lack of lobby crap is total bunk.

[Roadbeer]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

lol.

Hey, I have been a pretty staid supporter of this game since inception. But when Russ n crew get stupid, I have never been afraid to tell them. When they forced 3pV, I blew them up over it. (in fact, was one of the people who ended up causing such a stink they removed the old GenDis lobby, if you recall). I just don't act like Khobai or Vassago where I complain for the sake of complaining.

But this lack of lobby crap is total bunk.

Hey, I'm with you, when the LM was announced, I made some comment about laziness. Russ and Bryan blocked me, Russ unblocked me, but doesn't reply to my questions anymore, so I'm laying the snark on a bit thick since the lobby announcement.

Even busted this out today.