450 replies to this topic

[Craig Steele]

Roland, on 04 April 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

They haven't brought them back at all. Private matches which requires you to specifically invite people into a game doesn't facilitate groups to play together easily.

So you all what will happen. This is what will happen.

The game will continue to hemorrhage players, and what few organized teams remain will quit. And then the game will die. And people will move on to star citizen and other such games.

And that is how it ends.

So which is it? Are they NOT bringin 5 - 11 man team games back or are they bringing them back but its not going to be easy to organise? Put both feet on one side.

And as for your prediction of failure, exactly when will this occur. 4 weeks? 4 months? 4 Years? Just so when you tell us all about how you "knew this would happen" we can be comfortable your predictive abilities are based on some skill and judgement and not some broad based throw away line.

Dock Steward, on 04 April 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

So it's argumentative to ask that you put yourself in the shoes of someone who wants to play in a group of 5-11?

People are just asking to be able to play how they want without paying a fee no one else is paying (in this planned future). Pugs won't pay to play. 12 man teams won't pay to play, so you can't argue it's the price of playing with a team. No, it's just the price of playing with a team that the devs apparently feel are outliers. The "added perks," are meaningless given the obvious discrimination of making this middle section (5-11 man teams) pay.

I did see the Russ Bobblehead comment as argumentative yes, was it necessary to make your point?

Again, the 'perks' may be meaningless to you, but they are being put into place because people asked for them. You smash PGI as not listening, but they are showing they are listening to other feedback so it's not really the case is it. They also listened to the feedback about game stomps and balance with the proposed amendments.

Is it really discrimination? Or is it just marketing?. Taking at face value their stats, if a small demographic of the game population wants to have certain functions, isn't it good business to charge a premium to that smaller demographic?

Now don't take me out of context here cause I am not saying I agree with either side, but if you use inflamatory words like "discrimation' your are painting a picture. And you do so without any basis to justify the picture you paint. You don't have the stats, or the company management meeting minutes.

You feel aggreived and I get that, but its not the whole picture is it? It's far from "obvious" when you don't have any of the data to support your conclusion.

[Roadbeer]

Craig Steele, on 04 April 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

So if we are being argumentative, the answer is pretty straight forward. Black and White the game is not for that person you are describing right? Move on play another game?

LOL, whatever man

[BLOOD WOLF]

Craig Steele, marvelous analysis man. Its been pleasurable reading your thoughts on the matter.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 04 April 2014 - 09:01 PM.

[Dock Steward]

Craig Steele, on 04 April 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

So which is it? Are they NOT bringin 5 - 11 man team games back or are they bringing them back but its not going to be easy to organise? Put both feet on one side.

And as for your prediction of failure, exactly when will this occur. 4 weeks? 4 months? 4 Years? Just so when you tell us all about how you "knew this would happen" we can be comfortable your predictive abilities are based on some skill and judgement and not some broad based throw away line.




I did see the Russ Bobblehead comment as argumentative yes, was it necessary to make your point?

Again, the 'perks' may be meaningless to you, but they are being put into place because people asked for them. You smash PGI as not listening, but they are showing they are listening to other feedback so it's not really the case is it. They also listened to the feedback about game stomps and balance with the proposed amendments.

Is it really discrimination? Or is it just marketing?. Taking at face value their stats, if a small demographic of the game population wants to have certain functions, isn't it good business to charge a premium to that smaller demographic?

Now don't take me out of context here cause I am not saying I agree with either side, but if you use inflamatory words like "discrimation' your are painting a picture. And you do so without any basis to justify the picture you paint. You don't have the stats, or the company management meeting minutes.

You feel aggreived and I get that, but its not the whole picture is it? It's far from "obvious" when you don't have any of the data to support your conclusion.

Look, I'm going to tell you flat out, I have no intention of playing in the 5-11 queue. It's not because of the way they're implementing it, it's because I personally have zero need for it. I solo or I 12. That's it. That being said, I don't think anyone should have to pay to be able to do what I do for free. It's that simple. Just because added stuff gets thrown onto it for the sake of "marketing," doesn't mean it isn't what is happening (in this planned future). I can play with my team for free, but Roadbeer has to pay to play with his because of numbers?

Sorry if the word discrimination is too loaded for you, but...

[Roadbeer]

BLOOD WOLF, on 04 April 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

Craig Steele, marvelous analysis man. Its been pleasurable reading your thoughts on the matter.

And he'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Craig Steele]

Randalf Yorgen, on 04 April 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

Yes we are, thing is, PGI wants to make those of us with friends pay to play it with those friends.

Your tag say you are awaiting deployment, I retired after 20 so check this. PGI is willing to let half an infantry section go out on partol for free but if the other half, say with the LMG's in it want to come along then you guys will have to pay out of pocket for them to go on partol with you. Now on top of that, if you use any ammuntion or grenades, or if you pop smoke or use a para flare, or if you run down the battery on your radio or GPS the cost of restocking it will now come out of your pocket as the QM will be standing at the head of the chow line with his ledger and his hand out and you don't get to eat until he's paid.

We don't want to take a thing from the soloists, we just want two things;

1. we want to be treated fairly and the same as the soloists. the code is already in the game, they just need to change the value in a couple of lines and it's a done deal and they already know where those lines are. (granted a lobby would be great, or even just a general chat on the home page or something)

2. We simply want what we were promised from the very begining, a team oriented, multi player, thinking mans mech sim/shooter with 4 main pillars that it's built on the most important being Roll Warfare.

Hell, I was around pre founders and what PGI has done has killed the game for me, the only thing keeping me coming back are my friends over in House Marik on the TS server. I would like to be able to drop with more them three of them and have a great time but why should I have to pay in order to do that when you get to play your style for free. Can you not see how that is unfair to the team** players? We need Premium time to be able to do it, we need to buy the Module, if we use consumables we aren't making any rewards or c-bills to replace those with so it's all out of our pocket. If they do that other thing they talked about and put repair and reload back in the game we would be out that as well and to top it all off we have to go to yet another third party site to find a group to drop against.

And we are getting this from the project leads over at PGI in their podcasts, tweets, NGNG interviews, Command chair updates and their published version of "The Plan" and any other place they choose to talk about the state of the game.

If that confuses you then I don't know what to say to you except hi there Mudhutt.


** Team in this context includes to any group of friends who want to just group together and drop and have a good time in "CRAP MECHS", Team doesn't mean just those who play nothing but the meta game but those players are not excluded in this context.

I don't think your example is a true comparison of the situation.

But the guts of your message reads to me as "we want the same as PUG's for free".

Well thats just baloney. What you want is to play the game with your freinds and benefits of team work and planning and discussion and synchronised loadouts and the synergy or repeatedly dropping with the same people and 'knowing' your team mates. Thats exactly why you keep coming back as you freely highlight, and personally I don't blame you. Indeed I absolutely agree with you. It is fun.

Thats not the same game PUG's play.

So lets call that out for what the OP of this thread was, that Team Play has a lot more advantages over solo PUGGing.

So if your argument is we want our (better) game for free, just like every one else, then play the game just like 'everyone' else.

What I am submitting is that the proposed amendments are a step in the right direction (and yes, people will have differing views on how big a step that is) and not worthy of flaming out of hand as some have in this thread.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Roadbeer, on 04 April 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

And he'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

glad your your usual self, wouldnt have it any other way.

In the Free Private Match, players can create a group up to 12 and launch into a pre-match lobby

this is just the beginning, doesn't mean these things can't be tweaked.



The Premium Private Match behaves the same way as the Free Private Match with a few exceptions. These include:

• Ability to set game mode.
  
• Ability to select map.
  
• Ability to select view lock (1^st person only, 3^rd person only, both).
  
• Ability to select tonnage limits or remove tonnage limits completely (yes, actual tonnage limits).
  
• Ability to set match time.

In order to create a Premium Private Match, the lobby creator must have Premium Time active on their account.



Private matches seem to be for those who want to set up tournies specifically. People will probably be using Free PM more often but i will need to wait and see.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 04 April 2014 - 09:20 PM.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Here's an Idea, lets balance out the drop issue completely. If you want to drop in MWO at all (group soze 1-12) you need to have premium time and you need to buy a module. No one will get paid but consumables will still be availilble to those with MC. As it's also now a find your own match system you will also have to now go to a third party site to find someone to drop with.

you think the sheit storm from the soloists about having to go to a third party site for VOIP was something, just wait until this one hits the fan.

[Craig Steele]

Dock Steward, on 04 April 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

Look, I'm going to tell you flat out, I have no intention of playing in the 5-11 queue. It's not because of the way they're implementing it, it's because I personally have zero need for it. I solo or I 12. That's it. That being said, I don't think anyone should have to pay to be able to do what I do for free. It's that simple. Just because added stuff gets thrown onto it for the sake of "marketing," doesn't mean it isn't what is happening (in this planned future). I can play with my team for free, but Roadbeer has to pay to play with his because of numbers?

Sorry if the word discrimination is too loaded for you, but...

I'm in Roadbeers boat to (putting aside the "pay to Play" discussion)

As to your content, sure. It doesn't mean it isn't happening. It doesn't mean it is either. Neither of us have the insight as to the mechanics of why.

[Roadbeer]

BLOOD WOLF, on 04 April 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

glad your your usual self, wouldnt have it any other way.

In the Free Private Match, players can create a group up to 12 and launch into a pre-match lobby

Nope, setting group size is in the premium match. I know that the text say "Up to 12" for the free match, but all you need to do is follow down a couple paragraphs...

Quote

The reason for the need of a second Premium Time for this last option is that games that are not full 12v12 cost us extra dedicated servers that normally would be used for full matches. Dedicated servers running 1v1 games are not running optimal player/server loads and are more expensive to run. There was a thought to have all lance leaders to have to have Premium Time but we figured that was just too much and hard to organize so we settled on having the leaders of both Team 1 (who is also the lobby creator) and Team 2 being the only two who would need to have Premium Time active.

Special Note: The use of Premium Time to get access to the more advanced options is currently a temporary implementation. The plan is to eventually move to a pay-per-use model which will fit much better into both the player experience and business model requirements.

So, in order for myself and my 4 other friends (or whatever number) to play, not only do we have to have our group leader with PTime, but we have to find someone with PTime and around the same number of players in their group

This is what I've been trying to point out to you in more than a couple threads now, that PGI does not communicate what they mean efficiently, and usually you have to read further to find the truth of the matter, or find out on Twitter.

Now this is the part where you pick some word you didn't immediately understand in my post, look up the definition and we spend the next 4 pages discussing semantics.

Edited by Roadbeer, 04 April 2014 - 09:32 PM.

[Roland]

Craig Steele, on 04 April 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

So which is it? Are they NOT bringin 5 - 11 man team games back or are they bringing them back but its not going to be easy to organise? Put both feet on one side.

They aren't bringing games back for 5-11 man teams. People who don't understand the issue may be under the mistaken impression that the solutions they have offered will address the problems that prevent the majority of teams from playing the game, but those "solutions" do not solve anything.

Quote

And as for your prediction of failure, exactly when will this occur. 4 weeks? 4 months? 4 Years? Just so when you tell us all about how you "knew this would happen" we can be comfortable your predictive abilities are based on some skill and judgement and not some broad based throw away line.

If I had to guess, I'd peg it at around 8-12 months from now. Normally, I'd expect the clan release to create a significant jump in players, but given that they've alienated so much of the core battletech/mechwarrior fanbase, I think they're finding that the clans are generating less than stellar sales... You know why? Because while the clans are a really big deal to folks who love battletech and mechwarrior, the "casuals" that PGI is fumbling to try to attract with stuff like 3PV could give not one holyfuck about space {Godwin's Law} invading the inner sphere. The clans mean absolutely nothing to them.. and given those are the folks who PGI has apparently abandoned is foundation for, they will without question realize that they will earn very little money from the major event that they had banked on. Although, given absolutely no community warfare exists AT ALL, the "invasion of the clans" really means nothing, and is just a mech sale... which is apparently all PGI does these days.

So yeah, I'm guessing 8-12 months of limping along before it just collapses.

What's more? I predict that in 4-6 months, maybe less, YOU will join us on the darkside... because all us criticizing PGI today were the white knights of yesterday. Like you, we all thought that positive thinking and hope and rainbows would inevitably turn things around... and it never did. And that hope you're clinging to now will turn into pure bitterness. The more hope you have, the more bitter you're gonna be when you finally realize how futile it is.

We've all been where you are, dude... and you're gonna be where we are in a few months.

Every sith was once a jedi. We'll be waiting for you on the darkside.

Just kidding, we'll be playing other games by then.

[Dock Steward]

Roland, on 04 April 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:

Every sith was once a jedi. We'll be waiting for you on the darkside.

Just kidding, we'll be playing other games by then.

I woke my kid up laughing. Soooo worth it.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Roadbeer, on 04 April 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

Nope, setting group size is in the premium match. I know that the text say "Up to 12" for the free match, but all you need to do is follow down a couple paragraphs...


So, in order for myself and my 4 other friends (or whatever number) to play, not only do we have to have our group leader with PTime, but we have to find someone with PTime and around the same number of players in their group

This is what I've been trying to point out to you in more than a couple threads now, that PGI does not communicate what they mean efficiently, and usually you have to read further to find the truth of the matter, or find out on Twitter.

Now this is the part where you pick some word you didn't immediately understand in my post, look up the definition and we spend the next 4 pages discussing semantics.

i dont think that would be much trouble. For the benefits, its a small cost.

[WarZ]

Right now match maker is the biggest piece of s*** this game has to offer. I just got out of the classic 9 assualts on one team and we had f'ign one on our team matches. I'm getting sick and f'ing tired of playing mismatched F'fests.

So yea that f'ing premade on thier team with the 4 ddc atlases carrying lrm's in addition to the other 5 assaults, did in fact have a huge effect on the shit fest that followed.

F'ing b*lls***.

[Dock Steward]

Roadbeer, on 04 April 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

Nope, setting group size is in the premium match. I know that the text say "Up to 12" for the free match, but all you need to do is follow down a couple paragraphs...


So, in order for myself and my 4 other friends (or whatever number) to play, not only do we have to have our group leader with PTime, but we have to find someone with PTime and around the same number of players in their group

This is what I've been trying to point out to you in more than a couple threads now, that PGI does not communicate what they mean efficiently, and usually you have to read further to find the truth of the matter, or find out on Twitter.

Now this is the part where you pick some word you didn't immediately understand in my post, look up the definition and we spend the next 4 pages discussing semantics.

And you have to find that other team via some 3rd party group finder....

[Roadbeer]

BLOOD WOLF, on 04 April 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

i dont think that would be much trouble. For the benefits, its a small cost.

There are no benefits, I have to go use 3rd party software to find a match, and I receive no reward for dropping in those matches.

Sweet baby jebus am I sick of trying to get that through your head

WarZ, on 04 April 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

s***...F'ing b*lls***.

We can say shit and bullshit now

[Dock Steward]

Roadbeer, on 04 April 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

We can say shit and bullshit now

I noticed that. What the ****?

Edit* We still can't say ****

Edited by Dock Steward, 04 April 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[Roland]

Yeah, their ******* **** holyfuck censor program on their forums broke or something. Can't say {Godwin's Law} though.

[Roadbeer]

No, it's been a while.
The language filter has been secretly tested in K Town for months, there's even a thread for it.
Y'all really need to get down there more often.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Craig Steele, on 04 April 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

I don't think your example is a true comparison of the situation*.

But the guts of your message reads to me as "we want the same as PUG's for free".

Well thats just baloney**. What you want is to play the game with your freinds and benefits of team work and planning and discussion and synchronised loadouts and the synergy or repeatedly dropping with the same people and 'knowing' your team mates. Thats exactly why you keep coming back as you freely highlight, and personally I don't blame you. Indeed I absolutely agree with you. It is fun.

Thats not the same game PUG's play.***

So lets call that out for what the OP of this thread was, that Team Play has a lot more advantages over solo PUGGing.

So if your argument is we want our (better)**** game for free, just like every one else, then play the game just like 'everyone' else.*****

What I am submitting is that the proposed amendments are a step in the right direction (and yes, people will have differing views on how big a step that is) and not worthy of flaming out of hand****** as some have in this thread.

* And thet is where you are completely wrong, Lifes Lessons, you may know then as lessons learned, will change your perspective but first you need to experience them.

**Fried Baloney is best, with a side of Bacon. HOWEVER, if you would actually try to put yourself in anyone elses shoes to try and see where they are coming from I think you would change your tune. However I suspect you are just maintaining your closed mindedness simply because you think you know better. I remember being that young, I suggest you keep you head down should you ever get deployed because it's pretty swollen.

***It IS the same game, as was posted earlier, It used to be that way but it was taken out temporarily for adjustments, and that was almost 2 years ago. Another reason it's the same game, any pug who wants to can group up with 3 friends and drop, that tool is in the game, the difference is we group players also use a third party voip system, but so could any pug if they took the time to down load it and made even the smallest effort to be sociable. Because of that you playing as a pug or dropping in a group of 4 or less is your choice. For us, it's all we were left with and now if we want anything more we are going to have to pay out real money to get it.

**** Better, yes, but something that everyone can have the option to play for free but seperated by a SOLO/GROUP loading que. It's not rocket science.

***** So it's ok for us to be forced to play your style of game but it's not ok for us to play ours without a monitary penalty... Nice one. Like I said, keep your head down over there.

****** You are defending YOUR amendments pretty hard, throwing up a total bulwark to keep any ideas or sugestions that you might be way off the mark out. You have refused to take any of the opertunities to actually put yourself in someone elses shoes and see it from their point of view. Yes you would actually have to use a third party VOIP and you would have to go and be friendly on one of the third party VOIP servers out there and yes you would have to join with several group to find one that you fit with. Until you have done that there is no way you have taken one step in someone elses shoes but thanks to PGI EVERYONE here HAS walked miles upon miles in yours already.

You are using passion to defend your amendments, even if it's not actually coming out on the page in colourful words that passion is still there. You are trying to present yourself as being apart from the flamewars in this thread but because you refuse to walk in someone elses shoes you are the one causing the flamewars. Everyone who has posted here is very passionate as well and rightly so. Your failure to see how things are actually unfair with PGI's plan is the same problem that PGI is suffering right now as well. You're going to cut your nose off to spite your face.

Again I say Hi there Mudhutt.