77 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

Assault mechs are not easy mode, and the Atlas, because of it's very distinctive shape, draws a lot of fire. At this point, I'm almost sure you could mount 1 medium laser on an Atlas and stand it next to a Banshee that's fully armed and the Atlas would still get most of the incoming fire. People see them and think "argh - need to kill it now!" even if something else is an equal or bigger threat. As others have said, stealth Atlas is a living Atlas, and arriving a bit late vs. being out in the open is the best tactic. There are few things as devastating as a nearly fresh Atlas coming out of nowhere after the fight is well under way.

[Skyre Ventes]

I always used to look at my surroundings in MW2 so maybe i'd be useful as a scout or something. I always get interested in my surroundings and feel the need to know what is going on around me so I can get a feel of my surroundings.

by the by, that would be the best mech for that (obviously not Atlus)

[Koniving]

BaronBastardKiller, on 03 April 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

Thing is... you can't... when your own damn lance runs off and as the Atlas you're slowly trying to keep up..

Make your way to similar lances. You can also try communicating (it rarely works but sometimes it helps).

[AlmightyAeng]

AntharPrime, on 03 April 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Work at that Atlas. I find that you usually have to spend another 6-10 million cbills to make them viable.

Wow...totally misread that, and now THIS won't get out of my brain.

"Shake that Atlas, WATCH yourself, Shake that Atlas, SHOWMEWATCHYERWORKINWITH!"

Edited by Ghost Badger, 04 April 2014 - 11:06 AM.

[Koniving]

Baal Zebul, on 04 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

I always used to look at my surroundings in MW2 so maybe i'd be useful as a scout or something. I always get interested in my surroundings and feel the need to know what is going on around me so I can get a feel of my surroundings.

by the by, that would be the best mech for that (obviously not Atlus)

Even if you don't go with a light mech, if you decide to scout consider a Griffin.






Probably the best view in the game.

[Graves24]

I was considering to get the Atlas D-DC as my first assault but I don't like being focused because of the chassis so maybe I'll pick another one.

[Koniving]

Oh btw.

I wanna destroy a common image that new players get (not yourself but many people). You don't have to be a light mech to be a scout.

In fact some light mechs were built to brawl (when you consider stock). Some were built to spot. Some to hit and run.

The Shadowhawk, by original design aside from the 5M, had the armor of the medium-armored 35 ton light mechs (Raven 2X) and was built to scout, spot, and provide ranged fire support for heavy lances.

It's a shame no one uses it this way.

Quote

A recon and strike BattleMech developed during the Golden Age, the Shadow Hawk is a powerful fusion of maneuverability and firepower. With long-range missiles and a class-5 autocannon for ranged combat, and SRMs and lasers for close-in work, the Shadow Hawk outguns many BattleMechs in its weight class. Jump Jets enhance an already speedy BattleMech's ability to bring its guns to bear and keep better-armed enemies at range. A superior BattleMech for commanding a reconnaissance company or serving as a spotter for heavy and assault lances, the Shadow Hawk is a proven and capable design that has served with distinction for more than five centuries.

From Shadowhawk.

Edited by Koniving, 04 April 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Graves24]

I use the Shadow Hawk as a ranged fire support as described in the quote but instead of the AC5 I use two AC2. It is pretty fun but once anything jumps me I feel like I will lose the close range brawl 8/10 times. Maybe it is time to upgrade the engine so I can scout but I would have to remove some armor for it which I don't think would be a smart idea.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Koniving, on 04 April 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Don't go into the light, Koniving!

[Wildstreak]

Ghost Badger, on 04 April 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

Wow...totally misread that, and now THIS won't get out of my brain.

"Shake that Atlas, WATCH yourself, Shake that Atlas, SHOWMEWATCHYERWORKINWITH!"

Because you put the image in my head, I decided to clarify it for you.
Best I could find skipping the one of the guy in his underwear who got caught by his wife.


Now Doctor Merchant precribes you to go into a match and over General Chat demand the enemy team clean your eyes with Lasers.

Koniving, on 04 April 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Even if you don't go with a light mech, if you decide to scout consider a Griffin.

Probably the best view in the game.

Not only the best view (I haven't seen them all but so far), one of two Mechs with the best torso twist (other being the Locust) and average up and down range of movement. All variants can pack up to 7 JJs, only 2 Spiders get more and tied with 2 Wolverines and 1 Quickdraw. Can fit an engine for decent speed, at least 81 kph will do before tweak though depending on weapons preferred you might need an XL. Overall very flexible in several areas, makes up for what some said was the weakness of its hardpoints.

[foyrkopp]

Considering "Ninja Atlas" and "don't be first" I've got to mention: Follow the fracking atlas.

If your team actually follows up (and communicates this), by all means, roll in. If you do, you will bring enough firepower in your wake to down pretty much anything. If you don't, the whole team stands around waiting for you.

What I'm trying to say is: If your team adjusts to the "follow the fracking atlas"-strategy, please don't ninja.


See you in the field
foyrkopp

[RowanE83]

^ A very important point. You need to be able to make unselfish decisions if you choose to drive 100 tons into a drop.

A mentality of 'how must I pilot to best ensure my team win the round' is vital.

If your focus is primarily kills or damage, a mech 30-40 tons lighter can do a better job of that.

If you die with your arms still attached - or after 6 of your teammates are already dead - you may not have played as well as you could have that round.

[Picone]

Atlas doesn't usually make a particularly good support build, the hardpoints etc really lend it to brawling. But yeah you nailed it mate, teamwork's pretty much the key issue here. Atlas is never going to do well if it isn't operating as part of a group. Even with all that heavy armour etc its mobility is a pretty severe handicap and teamwork's the only way to negate it. Pretty rough if your team doesn't want to help you there's just not much you can do about it. That's pugging though. And I think that's the real issue with the noob factor. It isn't so much that the atlas is a bad mech for a noob to use, the real problem is that noobs haven't usually worked out the whole teamwork bit yet and as it was already mentioned, a solo atlas is a dead atlas.

[meteorol]

As someone who piloted the atlas all the way from the CB, i have to say the "meta" hasn't been good to him.
He has alot of issues with the current way the game is played. Very low mounted arms, few hardpoints for the weight, people got alot better at hitting where it hurts, even if you are torsotwist like a maniac.

The atlas has just slighty more armor than the Highlander, but is nowhere near as mobile. The armor advantage is literally gone if you get hit a single time. With the insane amount of pinpoint firepower that is thrown around atm an atlas will go down in seconds if he is trying to "tank". (Well, been this way ever since the hitreg remotely works, even if many simply don't want to understand this).
Jumpjetting mechs like the HGN can survive alot more fire spreading it to their legs.

If you are going in first as an atlas, and the enemy team notices you, be prepared to die in under 10 seconds, no matter how hard you torsotwist. No mech can withstand the punishment of focused fire pinpoint damage when he walks around a corner and half of the enemy team is targeting him. Fast mechs can dodge damage, assaults can't.

If you want an atlas to "lead the charge" and you are playing above average elo, don't be suprised if he ends the game with 62 damage. Because he will go down withouth being able to shoot more than 2 or 3 times.
Just played a game on caustic valley like a week ago. Premade of 4 DDCs "tried" to roll in guns blazing. They were focused down within like 15 seconds.
Any mech walking into the field of fire of 3 or more mechs is toast in a few seconds. Infact, light mechs probably are way better "tanks" than assault mechs, because guys are actually missing them.

So many guys expect the atlas to tank damage when it simply can't. The Atlas can still be a fearsome mech on the battlefield, but only if it is played to it's strenghts. Walking into half of the enemy team first, getting killed in 5 seconds is not one of his strengths.

[Osric Lancaster]

Atlas suffers from a number of things.

1 - hit-boxes.

Spoiler

My thoughts on the matter and proposed solution can be found here -
http://mwomercs.com/...76#entry3270876

TLDR: armor in TT was based around all 'Mechs being equally easy to hit when moving the same speed. In MWO that's not remotely true, yet 'Mech armor has kept to twice TT values across all chassis. This is why the Centurion is a running joke; it's a target the size of a large heavy 'Mech or small assault.

The Atlas is a giant target with a big 'shoot me here' side torso. Low mounted guns and momentum issues don't help the mater much.

2 - speed.

Spoiler

Speed effects not only how hard you are to hit in the open, but how long you need to expose yourself to return fire. In the tabletop it was one of those, but not the other. In MWO it's both, and weapons do damage a lot faster when you're exposed, and the longer you're exposed the faster you get focused down. Speed is therefore disproportionately useful to the point where people get better durability by using XL engines. Getting a 100 ton 'Mech to survivable speeds means dropping enough tonnage on an engine that you'd have been better off in a lighter 'Mech anyway.
When I tried an Atlas K in the test server a Dakka Banshee shooting me just as I started walking up a hill would strip all my armor before my guns could even clear the dirt.

3 - "Movement Archetypes"

Spoiler

An Atlas is tall enough that you can't see anything remotely near your feet, but it's knees are apparently completely ornamental. That pebble or commando you never saw will bury you.

4 - poor weapon hard-points.

Spoiler

The Atlas is a 'Jack of some trades, master of none. The two side torso ballistics mean you''ll probably be running a standard engine, the arms have good range but not much in them and your missiles are something of an afterthought because of the tube layout. The D-DC is only remotely useful because it's ECM makes it less rapidly spotted and focused down at range.

In short, I don't like the Atlas. Just my opinion. You can say it needs 'team support' but that's not going to happen often, and in reality a team that can move fast together is probably better off than one slowed down by a trundling slab of 'eats ten seconds of fire'. Atlases should be fearsome, and instead they scream 'easy high value target' more than any other 'Mech right now. If you want to run ECM the cicada's a far better choice for a 'Mech.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 07 April 2014 - 01:05 AM.

[Sancho Kabrinski]

As a assault mech only pilot I have learned to no expect help from (pug) teams. The only engines that gives you a blink of speed are XL, whose are a no no in an atlas or almost every assault mech. Don't listen to the speedfreaks that you find in every team, you are NOT (in this mech game) the first line of mechs. Most "pro" pilots in fast mechs expect that you go out of cover and atract all the enemy fire (an you will in an atlas) while they start their circle of death. Don't. Do. It.

Remember that you are a slow walking magnet bullet. Plan your movements. Join the other assault/slow mechs in your team. Follow them, even if they do a wrong movement. Either you will die with your group or alone xD Use cover. Get in when you have to. 95% of the time you wont have the chance to disenganche from the brawl.

Oh sometimes, a kite few, you will find medium/heavies that covers you. Thank them, they are very very few

[Mycrus]

Osric Lancaster, on 07 April 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:

Atlas suffers from a number of things.

1 - hit-boxes.

Spoiler

My thoughts on the matter and proposed solution can be found here -
http://mwomercs.com/...76#entry3270876

TLDR: armor in TT was based around all 'Mechs being equally easy to hit when moving the same speed. In MWO that's not remotely true, yet 'Mech armor has kept to twice TT values across all chassis. This is why the Centurion is a running joke; it's a target the size of a large heavy 'Mech or small assault.

The Atlas is a giant target with a big 'shoot me here' side torso. Low mounted guns and momentum issues don't help the mater much.

2 - speed.

Spoiler

Speed effects not only how hard you are to hit in the open, but how long you need to expose yourself to return fire. In the tabletop it was one of those, but not the other. In MWO it's both, and weapons do damage a lot faster when you're exposed, and the longer you're exposed the faster you get focused down. Speed is therefore disproportionately useful to the point where people get better durability by using XL engines. Getting a 100 ton 'Mech to survivable speeds means dropping enough tonnage on an engine that you'd have been better off in a lighter 'Mech anyway.
When I tried an Atlas K in the test server a Dakka Banshee shooting me just as I started walking up a hill would strip all my armor before my guns could even clear the dirt.

3 - "Movement Archetypes"

Spoiler

An Atlas is tall enough that you can't see anything remotely near your feet, but it's knees are apparently completely ornamental. That pebble or commando you never saw will bury you.

4 - poor weapon hard-points.

Spoiler

The Atlas is a 'Jack of some trades, master of none. The two side torso ballistics mean you''ll probably be running a standard engine, the arms have good range but not much in them and your missiles are something of an afterthought because of the tube layout. The D-DC is only remotely useful because it's ECM makes it less rapidly spotted and focused down at range.

In short, I don't like the Atlas. Just my opinion. You can say it needs 'team support' but that's not going to happen often, and in reality a team that can move fast together is probably better off than one slowed down by a trundling slab of 'eats ten seconds of fire'. Atlases should be fearsome, and instead they scream 'easy high value target' more than any other 'Mech right now. If you want to run ECM the cicada's a far better choice for a 'Mech.

Yo mama may vary

[A Man In A Can]

You know, this thread makes me reconsider the stock Atlas K build as a design philosophy to emulate on other Atlas variants (minus the XL of course). Especially when massed direct fire, massed indirect fire, and faster mechs can eat it for lunch, that general build type (long range sweeping energy weapons, LRMs, and hard-hitting or DPS ballistics) is surprisingly effective for the Atlas in the current environment.

Edited by Mechwarrior Mousse, 07 April 2014 - 02:45 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

foyrkopp, on 06 April 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

Considering "Ninja Atlas" and "don't be first" I've got to mention: Follow the fracking atlas.

If your team actually follows up (and communicates this), by all means, roll in. If you do, you will bring enough firepower in your wake to down pretty much anything. If you don't, the whole team stands around waiting for you.

What I'm trying to say is: If your team adjusts to the "follow the fracking atlas"-strategy, please don't ninja.


See you in the field
foyrkopp

I try to adjust this idea when I run with my guys. We change it to "Fracking Atlas, follow the Stalker." The Stalkers hitboxes are Superior for a straight-on charge...and if we have to lose something in the first moments of engagement, we'd rather it NOT be the Armored ECM Box. Just a thought...we've found that having your DDC follow a stalker in, or even be TWO mechs behind the stalker leading the push, is FAR more effective.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 07 April 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[Osric Lancaster]

Mycrus, on 07 April 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:

Yo mama may vary

I thought you had a strict 1 good reply per dezgra policy?
Of course if that were true you wouldn't be able to manage all that empty posting. So much dezgra, so little time, right?
Now. . . have I said anything untrue?