71 replies to this topic

[Craig Steele]

@ OP

So the choices are to NOT play assault and instead play skirmish, there are no turrets in skirmish. Make a better game mode choice

Or you could try using team chat to discuss options with your teams mates. Make better use of the tools available.

Or you could engage the stationary turrets with weapons from beyond their engagement range by getting a dummy to run in while the other 2 of you shoot them out. Make better use of your load out and abilities.

3 solutions there all within your power to influence. I am sure there are more.

No need to remove the turrets.

[Trauglodyte]

Just do the really cool thing and pad your super important and totally relevant hit % stats and shoot the turrets. Plus, if you get the kill, you get a pretty good chunk of XP and cbills.

[Bishop Steiner]

Trauglodyte, on 03 April 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Just do the really cool thing and pad your super important and totally relevant hit % stats and shoot the turrets. Plus, if you get the kill, you get a pretty good chunk of XP and cbills.

Yup. I've had guys get close eough to open them, then fade to cover. While the turrets are open, I shred them. Soon, you have a guy who no longer has turrets to protect him.


If the fire lanes and my damage leave me too exposed to be worth it, I'll retire to my own base, and let our numbers pull the win. Or the other guy gets desperate and the turrets kill him.

*shrugs*

[Roadbeer]

Meh, I like the turrets.

Just had a match tonight, fight went well, OP4 had a lightly damaged Battlemaster left against 4 of us who were beat to shit, he retreated into the base and we just waited the 3 minutes for the win.

I'm sure his team told him to do it, then yelled at him for not cleaning us up

[Heffay]

And that is why turrets are the greatest.

[Procyon Alpha]

I admit to a Leroy moment once in a DDC that went bad at the end of a match, but being drunk and piloting a mech gets you a lot of shit like that.

BTW if you are board with the game, I have made up an MWO drinking game that seems to work well and makes games very interesting. I have yet to figure out how my KDR is above 1.8 playing almost exclusively drunk after stat reset.....lol

[Mystere]

KharnZor, on 03 April 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

Yea but different game

But it's still PVE!

[Mystere]

Zerberus, on 03 April 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

Personal failure to properly comprehend and stuationally apply the rules resulitng in overall failure?

Check

Fault for failure projected entirely onto a disliked feature or game mechanic with zero self reflection? Preferably one that was just nerfed.

Check, and Bonus point.

We must be on the MWO forums

[/Sarcasm + comedy mode]

The fact of the matter is that a truly "dumb because only scripted" Pseudo-AI turret outsmarted you when you essentially had the win already locked up. The only person that failed is you for allowing yourself to get killed by being stupid and wanting the last killl at all costs. The pugs are not to blame, either, because the worst they could have caused is a draw, which is not a loss.

TL, DR:

Your actions directly contributed to the loss in a causal capacity, and it`s very easy to see exactly what your mistake was.

PS: The less obvious mistake was leaving skirmish mode in the first place, then coming here to whine about the mechanics of the other modes.

You want sandbox mode, stick to skirmish. You want actual objectives and tactics, play yomething else, but don`t come here and complain about the tactics after the cryhards spent the last 2 years trying to turn everything else into a brain-dead TDM mode before pgi finally broke down and gave them their holy grail of Closed Beta gameplay back in teh form of skirmish.

It really is that simple

Well, if people are not comprehending such stuff, then it's probably not simple.

As the saying goes, common sense is not really common.

Edited by Mystere, 03 April 2014 - 10:56 PM.

[Mystere]

Foxfire, on 03 April 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

So what you are saying is that I should only ever play assault mode and convince my side to exploit the hell out of turrets.

That is ultimately what is going to happen with this mode... people will realize that playing defense is inherently better than offense on this mode and do nothing but camp their side of the maps, within range of the turrets.

My experience with the current player base is that a large chunk just don't have patience. Just goad (i.e. troll) them a bit and they will start going Leeroy ... and in a Conga line at that.

[Mazzyplz]

just had a match where i instructed my puggers to stick to turrets and 1 listened at least. and he took the W in the end, when they were trying to run out the clock, but away from their turrets. they thought 3 mangled mechs vs a fresh highlander could get them the win and they were wrong.

there are several options. you can just leave the turrets, it's feasible to go upper city and take full control of the map from above in river city, turrets or no, because whoever goes into open water area will get hit by either team's turrets.

then you can also learn how to kill the damn turrets. pop in and out and use high alphas to kill them.
turrets cannot alpha, they will shoot you 1 green laser at a time. keep that in mind.... once you use that to your advantage turrets are cake?

[KharnZor]

Mystere, on 03 April 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

But it's still PVE!

Yea but different game

[EvilCow]

If you don't like waiting until the end of the game then play skirmish.

[SweetJackal]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Adapt dude.

You have the same opportunities available to you.


You could have just waited him out and won. You apparently chose to try to pry him out, and paid the price. He used the game mechanics, he won. Don't like it? Drop skirmish.


Me? I like having new problems to have to crack. Makes the game a lot less 1 dimensional and boring.

Yet there is the argument that sitting around waiting doesn't make for fun gameplay.

Reality is that the way turrets are implemented in MWO with the damage reduction system and their aiming code makes them far far more effective than actual battlemechs. A smart commander should be making a tank chassis out of the same material and just driving those toward the enemy, a hell of a lot more threatening than most things on the field today.

As it stands the turrets have 100 armor and cannot be sniped from long range due to the bunker mechanic. So more armor than the CT of most Mediums and Heavies (it was comparable to the Armor+Internals of an Atlas before) with around a 10 damage volley and pinpoint accuracy. Then consider the number of them around a base.

With the number of them available they shouldn't have been in bunkers, shouldn't have an insane amount of hitpoints and it all should be internal structure, not only so that high-crit weapons like the LBX-10 and Machinegun have a greater chance of knocking them out in a volley but just so that they could be disabled in the first place. Cone of Fire would also be the first thing I'd advocate for any AI controlled object in the game as that brand of randomness best simulates Pilot Skill since there isn't a human behind the control of them to give the possibility of errors in the first place.

If turrets being worthless due to their inability to threaten at range and getting sniped is a concern then place them in tactical locations where they would have cover from approaching enemies.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 03 April 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

I know, right? Now try explaining that to these folks.

That is an AI death trap.

[Bishop Steiner]

SuckyJack, on 04 April 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

Yet there is the argument that sitting around waiting doesn't make for fun gameplay.

Reality is that the way turrets are implemented in MWO with the damage reduction system and their aiming code makes them far far more effective than actual battlemechs. A smart commander should be making a tank chassis out of the same material and just driving those toward the enemy, a hell of a lot more threatening than most things on the field today.

As it stands the turrets have 100 armor and cannot be sniped from long range due to the bunker mechanic. So more armor than the CT of most Mediums and Heavies (it was comparable to the Armor+Internals of an Atlas before) with around a 10 damage volley and pinpoint accuracy. Then consider the number of them around a base.

With the number of them available they shouldn't have been in bunkers, shouldn't have an insane amount of hitpoints and it all should be internal structure, not only so that high-crit weapons like the LBX-10 and Machinegun have a greater chance of knocking them out in a volley but just so that they could be disabled in the first place. Cone of Fire would also be the first thing I'd advocate for any AI controlled object in the game as that brand of randomness best simulates Pilot Skill since there isn't a human behind the control of them to give the possibility of errors in the first place.

If turrets being worthless due to their inability to threaten at range and getting sniped is a concern then place them in tactical locations where they would have cover from approaching enemies.

Honestly?

I could care less. Some would argue that 3 minute long matches consisting of stationary poptarting with zero tactics aren't fun, but hey, here we are.

The match maker doesn't force you to play Assault. You don't want to deal with turrets and waiting? Bloody well play Skirmish. If, like myself, you like to actually have the potential for layers of tactical complexity to be added, turrets are a great start.

And here's another thought. Don't like it if someone turtles in the turrets in ArtyStrike Warrior Online? Don't burn through all your arty and airstrikes in the first 30 seconds of the match. They do a great job on turtled mechs, and wipe out active turrets remarkably fast, too. As for "can't be sniped long range". Patently untrue. Requires time, and if you run pure ammo mechs, you may indeed be screwed. Or, if you have numbers, you can have one of the unit with decent mobility get within the activation range, and move from cover to cover while the rest sit back and shoot when they open. Not that hard.

Seriously, having to wait 2 minutes, whether it's to move under cover to avoid LRMs, or to outlast a turtled mech. If you can't handle that, maybe playing a nice respawning twitch title is more your thing? Because some of us actually WANT MW to not just be another generic twitch title.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 April 2014 - 04:33 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 April 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

Honestly?

I could care less. Some would argue that 3 minute long matches consisting of stationary poptarting with zero tactics aren't fun, but hey, here we are.

The match maker doesn't force you to play Assault. You don't want to deal with turrets and waiting? Bloody well play skirmish. If, like myself, you like to actually have the potential for layers of tactical complexity to be added, turrets are a great start.

And here's another thought. Don't like it if someone turtles in the turrets in ArtyStrike Warrior Online? Don't burn through all your arty and airstrikes in the first 30 seconds of the match. The do a great job on turtled mechs, and wipe out active turrets remarkably fast, too. As for "can't be sniped long range". Patently untrue. Requires time, and if you run pure ammo mechs, you may indeed be screwed. Or, if you have numbers, you can have one of the unit with decent mobility get within the activation range, and have the rest sit back and shoot when they open. Not that hard.

Seriously, having to wait 2 minutes, whether it's to move under cover to avoid LRMs, or to outlast a turtled mech. If you can't handle that, maybe playing a nice respawning twitch title is more your thing? Because some of us actually WANT MW to not just be another generic twitch title.

And that... is a perfect example of a think man in a combat game.
Improvised
Adapted
Overcame.

No excuses
No Whining
No quitting!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 April 2014 - 04:31 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 April 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

And that... is a perfect example of a think man in a combat game.
Improvised
Adapted
Overcame.

No excuses
No Whining
No quitting!

Yup. But sadly it might not constitute a skill, according to Roland! (I kid, I kid..... but only a little!)

It's why I detest the Poptart Meta. Not that I am entirely against the tactic (though I do find it patently boring, TBH), but when any one Meta dominates the game THAT heavily, it kills tactical flexibility and thinking. And sadly, you start seeing the brain dead trend in the forums which basically embrace the "you must have meta to counter meta". If that is true, the game balance is broken beyond words. And seldom have I seen that degree of disconnect here. What I do see is too many people who play not lose, instead of trying to win, too many people who worry too much about stats, too much timidity. Our Poptart overlords are not all powerful. The lemmings are just too gutless and mentally lazy to coordinate and challenge them.

[Sheraf]

Foxfire, on 03 April 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

Just had a match where the game ended up being 3v1 where the last guy hid in the turrets.

Sorry, but this is a BS mechanic. It needs to go and has no place in a competitive game.

*edits* Well, Tie at least... being a little dramatic by saying defeat.

Don't just rage about everything, blame yourself, and move on.

Edited by Sheraf, 04 April 2014 - 04:42 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

Sooo OP. What I see here is mode select and stationary turrets defeated your team not to mention the forums by openly admitting it.

[Nehkrosis]

"This Thread should have closed yesterday!

Close this Thread, Close it i say!"