101 replies to this topic

[Onyxian]

Just started last week, and love Mechwarrior/Tabletop BattleTech.

My team gets absolutely annihilated every single game. 12-2, 12-1. A great game for my team is only losing 12-4, wow that feels good.

My question is, obviously losing constantly isn't any fun... is it any fun for you elite, awesome players, that have been playing for a while, always drop in pre-mades, and kicking the ever loving shite outta us new players? Is that really fun? Because winning > losing, but fun > winning. At least to me, maybe I'm a moron.

How the hell can this company justify dropping premades in the same game as newbs? And why doesn't my team seem to have any of this elite premade sexiness going on? We all huddle together like cattle around the atlases, me included, and get flanked and torn up.

How much of the potential player base has PGI turned away in their first week of play because they uninstall after getting destroyed constantly as their first experiences in Mwo? Because after just a weekish of playing, I know I'm damn near ready to stop wasting my time with a game that isn't any fun (at all) and uninstall.

And before everyone says "get teamspeak", its not an option for me.

Sorry for ranting, back to my original question. Is this game any fun, even for you cool kids? Because for the fat transfer from outta state, it's no fun at all.


EDIT- I define fun as a good, tight game. Lots of back and forth, both sides have a chance to win. Which is exactly the opposite of my experience with Mwo so far. I love playing chess with my 7 year old, but as far as the game itself goes, I'd destroy him every time if I wanted to, and that's not fun or fair.

Edited by Onyxian, 04 April 2014 - 05:06 AM.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

I PUG exclusively.. win/loss is mixed, a few matches an eve.. yes i have fun, for now.

[Roachbugg]

i havent had a 12-0 stomp in weeks most of my games end with two or three mechs left on the winning team, I have fun every time i play this game sometimes i have a losing streak but then i just pray to the match maker gods to cut mme so slack if they dont i go play something else for a few hours,

[dragnier1]

Matches for me are mixed. Sometimes i get good games, sometimes bad. As a new player, you'll likely see more of bad games initially before your elo ranking stabilizes.

[ThatBum42]

Yeah, I have loads of fun, I'm 500 or so matches in and always PUG. My current stats say my win/loss is 133/110 and archived says 136/134, so averaging over a long time period, I'd say my matches aren't one sided at all.

Yeah, stomps happen all the time, it's just the nature of the beast. With no respawning, a numerical advantage can quickly multiply into more numerical advantage. That, and which team gets into the more defensible position first, who has more tonnage, and sometimes just dumb luck, etc.

That said, I've been seeing less and less stomps lately, perhaps that's because of the bracket I'm in...who knows.

[Onyxian]

dragnier1, on 04 April 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

Matches for me are mixed. Sometimes i get good games, sometimes bad. As a new player, you'll likely see more of bad games initially before your elo ranking stabilizes.

My point was, I'm not going to make it far enough to stabilize and put me in with the crap players where I belong. And I wonder how much business PGI has lost because everyone's initial experience is so bad, and most people don't have the necessary masochism to endure getting stomped constantly. And if I'm in an Elo bracket with premades, then why aren't there ever any premades on MY team? Why am I always on the receiving end?

[Turist0AT]

John McFianna, on 04 April 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

I PUG exclusively.. win/loss is mixed, a few matches an eve.. yes i have fun, for now.

Same here. Sounds like ELO workings, hang in there, let your elo go down a bit. You and your team are in to high of a bracket.

[Redshift2k5]

Long story short- Look for a group to play with. You don't have to join a unit, NGNG and Comstar NA both offer open-house dropships where you can drop in/drop out. Lots of merc corps are hiring anyone who is willing to learn.

Playing with friends helps in a lot of ways, they are a buffer against being left behind/ganged up on, can offer advice, and help ease the sting of a bad loss with some comraderie. It's easier to swallow a tough loss when you have teammates and you can all agree 'damn we got outplayed' and carry on.

Most pre-mades really are only average, and belong in the average Elo queue. you can, however, level the playing field by hooking up with players yourself.

[Rhaythe]

Close-cut games are rare. The way this game plays by its very nature encourages "wide-scale" defeats. Think about it this way - when there is an even, 3-on-3 battle, someone is going to go down first. Then it becomes 3-on-2. There are now 33% fewer targets for the "winning" side to eliminate, so focused fire becomes more natural (after all, you have a 50-50 chance of instinctively shooting the same target as your teammates). So one of those two remaining mechs will go down quickly. It's just as likely that the fight will result in a 3-on-1 battle as it is a 2-on-2, and if it gets to a 3-on-1 fight, that last remaining mech is going to go down in a god-awful hurry.

This is a simplified example, obviously. And nor am I advocating the way the game drops work. I agree. 3-year vets should not be on the same server as new players. The game does try to balance premade groups by sticking one in the Alpha Lance of each team, but that can be hit or miss.

Don't be surprised, though, if most games end with lopsided numbers. If your team puts up a good fight and doesn't get picked off one-by-one, take some pride in your work. Theoretically, the game matchmaker has to accidentally get it right someday.

Maybe.

[ThatBum42]

Exactly. Even if my team gets stomped, I check my match score and if it was good, I still feel good about the match. I did my part, that's all one can ask. Somewhat often, I get the top match score or whatever, and I'm all "aw yiss" That's what it's all about, for the PUG lyfe anyway. Dunno how you would measure your performance against the rest of the team when in a group.

Edited by ThatBum42, 04 April 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[HighTest]

Onyxian, on 04 April 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

My point was, I'm not going to make it far enough to stabilize and put me in with the crap players where I belong. And I wonder how much business PGI has lost because everyone's initial experience is so bad, and most people don't have the necessary masochism to endure getting stomped constantly. And if I'm in an Elo bracket with premades, then why aren't there ever any premades on MY team? Why am I always on the receiving end?

I feel for you. No really, I honestly do. My first 400 matches in MWO were a joke -- I think I had a K/D ratio of about 0.14. My W/L ratio was just bad. Very bad. Really.

The new player experience is VERY rough. I tried to get my brother to play, and after a few of games of sub-100 damage and consistent early deaths, he quit playing entirely. Frankly, I think that, generally, the only people that really tend to stick around are those that really like the whole Battletech/Mechwarrior IP, or like the basic 'tank-simulatorness' of it. (I personally am NOT a fan of twitch shooters.)

I'm not sure whether to blame matchmaking at this point or not, as I can have ROFLstomps go either way, even still. A LOT of this game comes down to tactics, and even if your group is fairly even with the opposing team skill-wise, you can still get blasted into oblivion if they out-think and outmaneuver you.

In the absence of any real/proper onboarding or matchmaking, I can suggest this: If you like what you see, and somewhere deep down inside you find the game even a little bit fun or entertaining, join a group or team. Even if you don't play with them all of the time, you can certainly pick up some skills and strategies that will help you even when you PUG. Besides, at least someone else on your side might actually be covering your back.

And to answer your initial question, I believe wholeheartedly YES -- I'm sure LOTS of new players get turned away based on their initial in-game experiences. Like I said, my brother did. And he used to be a MW fan in MW1 through 4. Until matchmaking changes, or until the devs implement a separate 'new player' queue, or something, I suspect this will continue for some time.

[990Dreams]

Yes. This game is plenty fun.

[mogs01gt]

IMO the game becomes fun once you find a mech that suits your play style and once your ELO gets a bit higher. Low ELO hell sucks because those players simple dont care to play well.

[ThatBum42]

Part of the reason I do well is because I have good hardware, I think. Helps to have 50-60 FPS every time, all the time (on very high, too).

My K/D is 1.38. It used to be a bit above 1.5 earlier this week, but I've been achieving an unprecedented level of crapulence lately, not really sure why. Anyway, as discussed in other threads, KDR doesn't really mean a lot as comparing to other players because everyone's playstyles are different. A fire support or scout player is very likely to have a lower KDR than, say, a striker/skirmisher, but both are equally valuable to the team.

Over time, the Elo system tends to normalize your win/loss ratio to near 1.00, it's all just probabilities. You should be improving soon, don't worry too much about it!

And yes, finding the right mech for your playstyle is very important. If you feel you're not improving at all with your current selection, perhaps try something else? The new lineup of trial mechs looks pretty snazzy.

Edited by ThatBum42, 04 April 2014 - 06:04 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

See the current issue is the drop mechanics are some times placing multiple 4 mans on one side and the other either no 4 mans or just one. This leads to more tactical presence and teamwrok verse none to little. Which PGI has already stated is OP (over power) and this is one of the drop mechanics that they say they are fixing. In the mean time the only suggestion I can give is join a group and drop in a 4 man lance with some sort of communications ... like TS (teamspeak). This will hopefully give you better game play work with your team more so then a normal pug solo match.

As for ELO well that hasn't worked correct since forever: either high ELOs are waiting forever or they get in matches against lower ELOs and stomp them.

[richie b]

Turist0AT, on 04 April 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

Same here. Sounds like ELO workings, hang in there, let your elo go down a bit. You and your team are in to high of a bracket.

OK, I don't understand this at all.
Played some trial mechs yesterday & today. All over 50% win rate, that's fine. I don't pretend I was that useful to my team, but I chipped in here and there. Bought a mech & I have won 2 out of 12 in it & feel like I'm playing with the big boys whilst I'm still trying to work out the basics. I feel bad for my team, because I'm useless & I'm having a really bad time because, well, see above.
If this is the normal way players are brought into the game, then fair enough. I'm sure the game will thrive with no new players.
If it isn't WTF is actually happening?
Why is a player with 12 battles and 2 kills to be fighting with and against experienced players in elited mechs?
Just now, I'm about to uninstall because this is pointless. If there's something I can reasonably do to actually enjoy the game beyond, "have an awful time until an algorithim recognises what is patently obvious," then I'd love to stick around. I've been pretty excited about playing, but this hasn't been a promising start...

[PACoFist]

I have only played PUG till now, and my win/loss-ratio is balanced (slightly positive). Sometimes matches go extremely well, everybody knows what to do, and sometimes I wanna scream at my teammates: "OH NO! What the f*** do you do?!" That is PUG life.

When I get frustrated because of a long loosing series, I take one of my mechs, strip all equipment and make the most insane build I can imagine (like an AC10-Spider). Then start a new match and make the best of it, while laughing like a maniac. Believe me, it helps. Sometimes those stupid build work surprisingly well, and if not they are at least fun.

[Bhelogan]

Your experience is not unique. We don't know how many players are driven away because of the awful new player experience, and because those that leave arn't around to bug PGI about it, it gets mostly overlooked.

I think the majority of new players who come here and are successful are either brought in by friends who play the game with them, or find a group to drop with regularly quickly. In the end, it is a team game after all.

As far as what is fun, usually stomps are not that fun for either side. The best games are those that are close, and come down to a great brawl or tactical move at the end, or something else silly that determines the match, win or lose.

[Widowmaker1981]

In fairness a large, large part of it is learning to play, ive played mech games before but i got stomped on a lot at first, because you have to be so much more cautious than you think - basically if more than 1 enemy mech can see you, and none of your team-mates (like if you walk over a ridge and spot 5 enemies) you will die. very fast. very very fast. the best way to learn at first is imo to try and play something fastish (medium or heavy), watch your radar like a hawk and stay close to the rest of your team. hang around bigger targets than yourself and try to add some fire to their targets.

and dont expect to win when you are new at a multiplayer game.... if there was no learning curve then the game would be boring as hell and totally luck based..

and despite the 'evil premade' talk you do not need to group. due to time and real life constraints i havent got involved at all with comms and all my drops have been solo. my KD is about 1.5 since patch, and was about 1.35 before. since patch one of my mechs actually has a KDR of over 3 (i do love 3xUAC5 on a Jaeger).. at some point i might start grouping and see whats going on with that...

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 04 April 2014 - 06:26 AM.

[richie b]

Widowmaker1981, on 04 April 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

In fairness a large, large part of it is learning to play,
[...]
and dont expect to win when you are new at a multiplayer game.... if there was no learning curve then the game would be boring as hell and totally luck based..

I'm completely with you on this. What has annoyed, it appears, both me and the OP is being dropped into games with folk in the same boat against folk who have learnt. That is, when there is a system that actively mitigates against learning to play...
Am I naive in expecting to have sort-of faintly-even teams sometimes?