62 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

If you were interested in a Jenner and not afraid of spending a little money, the easiest XL 300 engine is in the Jenner Champion. Actually the Dragon Champion would be even better suited considering your intent to run them.

As for cheap cbill ways.. you could get them with a mech but you'd get them even sooner by just getting the engine itself. You may as well aim for a 315 (popular and used frequently in Catapults, Thunderbolts, and some 55 ton mechs) since you're not a light mech fan (300 would find more use in those above heavies and light mechs).

To skirt a bit more money you can sell the standard heatsinks from when you shifted to DHS ("Home, Inventory, Equipment"). But don't get sell happy with weapons and other equipment, you'll probably be buying the other stuff time and time again.

Definitely save for the XL; you are scarcely at risk of quickly dying from side torso shots especially as a new player. Most of them only know what a Dragon is because of the trial mech since so many are told to avoid them.

Since you have a Dragon, have you tried playing with Armlock turned off? If so, use Left CTRL to take some more advanced control of your arms. Use Shift to 'pinpoint' the arms and torso again when you need to.

Modo44, on 08 April 2014 - 12:17 AM, said:

And so much fun scrolling to find a specific mech. Yeah, I remember.

At 96 mechs and 100+ mechbays, I remember too.
Strangely I still had an easier time finding my mechs. UI 2.0 separates my Phoenix mechs, splits up my Atlases, splits up my Hunchbacks, and I gotta look under Champions to find my Grid Iron because it doesn't show up under Heroes or normal mechs.
Here's to hoping for less random boxes with pictures and more use of space for actual information.

[Hawklaser]

Its not so much don't want to run light mechs, want to be more familiar with controls/maps before heavily getting into one, as they seem to really have to be able to aim on the move, and know how the maps flow due to having to abuse that speed to work their best. The light mechs will definitely revisit later on, when know the maps and better able to control mechs, especially at faster speeds.

Right now spending real money is not an option, so it looks like will have to save up the C-bills for the XL, as seeing most mechs with them included also have a hefty C-bill cost as well.

And it did not take long for me to turn off arm lock, just have to get used to aiming with it. Will have to try out using left Ctrl and shift to see what that does in a training ground area.

Edit: Just tried out the left Ctrl and shift usage, have to say that left ctrl will be very useful in a Dragon, especially with abusing shooting around cover.

Edited by Hawklaser, 08 April 2014 - 02:12 AM.

[Modo44]

Having started MWO with Dragons myself:

XL300 is the usual minimum for a Dragon. Any slower will get you killed rather easily. I would consider buying an XL300 or XL325, as those work with multiple builds (XL300 for no Ferro armor, XL325 for full Endo+Ferro). The side torsos are extremely hard to hit, so only special builds use a standard engine (AC20+4xML on a Flame).

Meta Dragon 1N: 2xAC5+(ER)PPC. If you like sniping, Gauss+ERPPC will also do nicely. Note that it is difficult to use up close, and both will be pretty much disabled when the arms go.

The 1C variant is my personal favourite. It has the advantage of two torso energy hardpoints, making it a nice long-range PPC/ERPPC sniper (the shoulder mounts are very high for good hill peeking). I prefer more arm strength, currently running 2xERLL+2xML+UAC5.

Oh, and sorry about your Cbill wallet. The XL dependency makes the Dragon one of the most expensive mechs in the game as far as upgrades go.

Edited by Modo44, 08 April 2014 - 02:14 AM.

[Hawklaser]

Better to get those large expenses out of the way early, since can carry those over to other mechs later if needed too from what I understand. Just going to take a little bit to build up the C-bills to get that first XL engine. Have 1.7-2m to earn to pick up those recommended ones. Would have to do the double heat sink upgrades after get the engine upgrade, as the engine seems more important, as outside of certain maps and longer sustained fights can manage the heat fairly well currently, just have to watch the ER PPC usage in those situations, as the 1 AC5 is heat neutral most of the time for me.

This is how I am currently set up :DRG-1N When get better can likely drop some of the AC5 ammo, as right now don't quite like having to be more reliant on the AC5 with a small ammo pool on maps like Terra Therma. If there is some armor adjustments that are recommended, would not mind hearing them and reasons behind it.

I am considering trying the Gauss Rifle, AC10, or 2 AC5s or 2s when get the extra weight to use, as well as some other laser options when can better deal with the heat on hot maps. Maybe even putting some LRM's on it for some indirect harassment of enemies, though not sure if 1 LRM 10 or 2 5s would be the better course there. And not quite sure how well SRM's or streaks would work on it either.

[Modo44]

Start with Double Heatsinks. Seriously, only very few builds can go without. Consider upgrading to this. Going faster will do you no good if you overheat from an alphastrike.

Edited by Modo44, 08 April 2014 - 03:18 AM.

[Denolven]

Funny how many people start with Dragons. My first own mech was a spider 5V, followed by a Dragon 1N. Somehow I have this "gift" of always picking hardcore mode blindly whenever I join a new game
Anyway, the 1N was quite fun. I bought it for the same reason: I can try all kinds of equipment with it. There are usually two ways to play a Dragon, either as long range support (Gauss, PPC, ERLL) or skirmisher. I tried both, but due to my bad aiming ended with the skirmishing. I used double AC2 and an XL350 with ammo/cooling/backup weaponry as you prefer (similar to this, don't remember the exat build).
I have found the AC2 to be one of the most reliable weapons. It works at every range, against every target, has good rate of fire (important because I tend to miss single shots), high dps and a nice suppression effect, which is double usefull for your allies and for you, because you need "face time" to apply damage but have a huge CT. So with a mech as fast and durable as the Dragon, you can always pick the fight according to what the enemy likes least.

Edited by Denolven, 08 April 2014 - 03:12 AM.

[Anvil ZA]

So i'm back from battle with a few more stories to tell, and a bit more knowledge gained... But you can never have too much... I ended up not getting a Misery, and instead decided to play around with what I had. First thing I tried was my Stalker 3F with a pair of LL's for mid-range fights, pair of ML's and SRM's for close-up bang, and a small set of LRM just to be useful at range. Used the XL 310 (came with the 3F(c), like I said, sale), and some DHS to keep cool. It actually fairs surprisingly well in closer fights, but of course it's slow and easily beaten by groups of 2 or more, especially with the XL. For now I'm going to stick with the LRM loadout until they are mastered, then will try another build. So far loving them in any config.

Also tried my Atlas again, with twin LPL, ERLL, and LBX. All I can say is bad luck if you stand in front of it. However, once again, as soon as someone sees "AS7" on their HUD, the entire enemy team (it feels like it anyway) decends on me like flies. So will leave that until I am more experienced.

Lastly, Vic 9K with Gauss and twin LPL, in my mind long and short range clout, though probably should go with at least one weap with quicker reload. Did fairly well with this, and the Vic will always have a special place in my heart (first mech). Also found that almost max armour, std 290 (64.5 kph when mastered), AMS, and JJ's make it last a bit longer in combat.

So from these tales of fails (and occasional wins), can anyone suggest what I should look at once the STK is mastered? Like I said, until my internet gets sorted, lights and most meds are mostly out of the question.

Thanks again in advance
Anvil

Edited by Anvil ZA, 08 April 2014 - 04:14 AM.

[luxebo]

Hawklaser, on 08 April 2014 - 02:56 AM, said:

This is how I am currently set up :DRG-1N When get better can likely drop some of the AC5 ammo, as right now don't quite like having to be more reliant on the AC5 with a small ammo pool on maps like Terra Therma. If there is some armor adjustments that are recommended, would not mind hearing them and reasons behind it.

If anything, upgrade to DHS, don't get Ferro, and get your leg armor up, as Dragon legs are big for it's weight (though there are bigger aka Quickdraw). Using Case wouldn't be a bad idea in the Dragon to prevent ammo explosion to your CT. Weapons are not bad though, might want to downgrade to regular PPC to conserve a bit of heat.

[Koniving]

For Hawklaser. Modo's tweak is pretty good. The reasoning for that added DHS being in the right side is to help protect the ammunition.
I came up with something slightly different. Truth be told, you will never, ever, be able to consume all that ammunition except in the most extreme conditions. As such I reduced the ammunition a bit in favor of being able to use the ER PPC more often. I have also used the ammunition consumption rule to preplan what ammunition is drained and when.

The rule is head, center torso, right torso, left torso, right arm, left arm, right leg, left leg (for most mechs; not all). That said, the ammo in the center torso may be somewhat vulnerable but it will be the first to empty; most likely before you run out of CT armor. (Or just shove it in the head; only reason I didn't do it myself is I reserve that space for AMS ammo and wasn't thinking.) The two in the arm are protected by both the cannon and the DHS, which in turn help protect the cannon. It's almost feasibly impossible to lose your AC/5 or have the ammo in it detonate before the arm is destroyed after setting it up this way.
The DHS in the left arm helps protect the ER PPC as well.

I kept your Ferro for now because why add the expense?

It's optional, but you could also do this. This takes Modo's idea of adding a medium laser but instead of on the nearly unusable shoulder as a backup, it's on the left arm so that your left shoulder can be used to peek-shot over hills should you find yourself on such a level where that may be useful.

For Anvil, you could swap the engine out for a standard on the Stalker. You'd be surprised at the difference.
If you like the Stalker to a point but find it too slow, why not try the Battlemaster? Better twist, lots of energy and missile potential, and don't forget it can also use some ballistics on a few variants. Oh, and a LOT more speed due to significantly higher engine ranges.

Edited by Koniving, 08 April 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[Denolven]

Anvil ZA, on 08 April 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

First thing I tried was my Stalker 3F with a pair of LL's for mid-range fights, pair of ML's and SRM's for close-up bang, and a small set of LRM just to be useful at range.

That's pretty solid, and if you like playing it then it's worth even more. Looks like the Stalker wasn't a bad choice at all. You are playing around with different laser/missile setups, which is good. Tinker around until you find your sweet spot

Quote

Also tried my Atlas again, with twin LPL, ERLL, and LBX. All I can say is bad luck if you stand in front of it. However, once again, as soon as someone sees "AS7" on their HUD, the entire enemy team (it feels like it anyway) decends on me like flies.

What if I told you that you can use this to your advantage?
Little anecdote:

Spoiler

A friend of mine got himself an Atlas, because he likes his Space Marines. He had the same trouble as you had, so I offered him to team up with my DakkaHawk (Shadowhawk with triple AC2), which has very high dps, but needs "face time". I remember one specific battle in Canyon Network where we were the only ones on the right flank. We were like "meh whatever, let's just sell ourselves as expensive as we can before our team gets crushed".
Weird thing was that on the enemy side there wasn't even one single mech at that flank, so we went all the way to their base (was before turrets). Before we reached it, someone must have spotted me and reported it to their team. Atlas was walking down in the canyon, I kept an overview from the second floor. Two guys started to engage me, and I saw more coming. I closed in on my friend and we walked around a corner. Then when they came around, BOOOM they got themselves a big yellow Atlas in the face. Surprise!
The two guys who were after me didn't even spend another second on me and immediately switched over to my friend. Then 3 more guys with heavier machinery arrived, and hell broke lose. They pounded the Atlas, and they pounded him good. He was like a Spartan in a 1v5, refusing to give them even one foot of ground no matter how grim the situation. I killed one of the initial two guys quickly, then switched over to their heavier reinforcements. That Cataphract had to go ASAP. I'll get it, even if it's the last thing I do this match. The air was filled with bullets and smoke, and neither side did see much except for that one yellow giant Imperial Fist in the middle.
I was running hot fast, but after several seconds I managed to core the Cataphract. Mission accomplished. "Now they can have me" I thought, but then realized that still nobody was shooting at me. I slightly turned my head while engaging the next target, and I knew why. The Imperial Fist was still standing. After what felt like an eternity of bullet rain, he was still there, giving them stories to tell about immortal Atlases. 3 targets left. A few seconds later, their Jagermech bit the dust. More reinforcements...
Not a word was spent, we both knew that we won't leave this place alive. I took a quick look at him, wondering how he can still be there after all this. Status overlay: 23%. I took a deep breath. Alright, let's give them what they are asking for. 19%. Their Thunderbolt uses one of his allies to prevent me from downing him, switched target to the "cover" Jagermech. 11%. Atlas down. A few more strikes, Jager sent to the other side. The last thing I remember was 4 red markers around me, including that one Thunderbolt with an open CT. I attempted to down him. Orange. Come on, die already! Then silence. They got me before I managed to land those last few hits. The fight was over. And what a fight it was.

Final balance: with one Shadowhawk and one Atlas we took down 1 Shadowhawk, 2 Jagermechs, and a Cataphract, all while facing about 8 opponents (they arrived in 3 groups).
And the reason this was possible is because everyone went for the Atlas. They could have killed me in a few seconds. But instead they went for the big guy. Sure he died in the end. But not before allowing me to kill 3 of them by taking an insane amount of abuse for me, and finishing off one of them himself.
On that day, the Atlas earned my respect.

Once you get more experienced with how battles go, you will learn to see the right moments and places. And then the Atlas becomes a fine piece.
Short demo on another important tatic (also watch the next part, then you'll see).

As for your next Mech, you might want to take a look at the Jagermech or the Catapult. Both prefer mid to long range (except for the Jagerbomb with dual AC20), but are capable enough to do short brawls, depending on the equipment.
The Jagermech A has a variety of options with its hardpoints. It can do anything from double shotgun to PPC sniping to missile rain, and is usually played in the second line like the Stalker, although a bit less robust. It has high mounted harpoints like the STK, but has an option for ballistics. So you have things you know from the Stalker already (second line hillfighting, occasional close range fights), but at the same time have more options to play with and are a bit faster moving.
The Catapult is a bit more limited with the hardpoints, or let's say has them spread over different variants. The A1 usually mounts missiles for different ranges, while the K2 can do some energy/ballistic sniping. Also the Catapult has relatively small side torsos, which means you can make good use of XL engines (not much extra risk, but alot of extra tonnage). The two C variants are more balanced with missiles and lasers. The big plus of the Catapult, compared to the Stalker, is its mobility, including jump jets. The Catapult is one of the few mechs that can turn around almost 180°. I noticed that when I tried fighting one with my Spider back when I was a newbie. I was thinking I'm clever, shooting it in the back. But that thing just turned around its torso and fired at me, and I was like oh crap 0_0. If that had been a Jester, that would really have freaked me out (it has eyes painted both on its front and back; Jester didn't exist back then).

Edited by Denolven, 09 April 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[Modo44]

I would never keep ammo or heatsinks on a Dragon's arms. The arms and/or the CT usually go long before the side torsos.

[Anvil ZA]

Think this might be my last update in this thread as I think I may have found the right setups that I really enjoy. First and foremost, thanks to all for the help and guidance.

The stalker is my bread and butter mech, mastered now, and kept one 3F for versatile builds like I mentioned earlier, and one LRM setup (same as the default 3F champ) for drops with co-ordinated teams that actually try hold locks.

I have grown to love my atlas... never thought I would, but have kitted it with twin LBX, twin LL, and twin ML, and exactly one metric buttload of armor. I have not yet found another mech that can even think of going face to face with it close up. The 2 LBX fired in chain is like a double-tap of insta-death every 2 seconds. That and the fact that I have realised not to just go charging into battle screaming SPARTAAAAAA and rather hang back slightly and stick with a few heavy/med for support. If they get the drift and keep harrasers off me while I engage the assaults one at a time it's a deadly force. Even better if I can get to a choke-point. With even one other mech for support we can hold a bottleneck for the entire game. And of course, being an atlas they all just line up to have a go.

Anyways, once again thanks for the advice. Now that the heroes are coming on sale I thnk I might get a jester to try a more nimble mech, sort of like a dakka ballerina (dakkarina?).

Cheers for now
Anvil

[Denolven]

Added the mech list (spoiler in the opening entry). Constructive criticism is welcome.

[Denolven]

Added section for indirect fire support (LRM)

[Running Scared]

Personally, I wish i had picked up a Hunchback 4SP as my first mech. For its class, it has a reasonable life expectancy, has a nice symmetrical loadout, decent firepower, and isn't very tall in stature, making it a slightly smaller target comparatively to other mechs. It's also won't break the bank trying to kit out, with the exception of upgrading to a higher standard engine.

That said, while you will have some success, you'll still get bend over most of the time because most of whats being ran in game is 65 tons or more. Dragon1c was my first mech, and it was expensive. So much so, that i bought the chassis with MC, and used my cadet money bonus to fully kit it out. Now, I wish i hadn't have done that. Despite the time and money put into it, I find myself contemplating selling the chassis off. and using the paltry 1 mill C bills for something else that i would use.

Edited by Running Scared, 08 May 2014 - 03:17 AM.

[Kmieciu]

I've mastered the Dragons back in open beta but I nowadays wouldn't recommend them to anyone. They were great at taking snapshots with Gauss rifle and PPCs while running full speed at 80 kph. Guess what? You cannot take snapshots with Gauss anymore, and those terrain movement penalties really hurt your mobility.
Mechs that rely on mobility require jump jets. Just use the Shadowhawk and save yourself the trouble.

Edited by Kmieciu, 02 June 2014 - 04:41 AM.

[Pappus]

I played ECM spider and mastered Firestarter.

What I like in the latter is the ability to high alpha targets from behind, which I managed to flank. (Well 40 damage is not that bad for a light) or the whole circle of death and even the abiltiy to brawl to an extend. While I am yet not very good at reading the battle correctly I would like to go on to the next mech.

I really enjoy that playstyle of having high speed, however I could see me switching to more brawling and trade my speed for it.

However I need to do something all match long.

As a light, when there was nothing to strike/flank whatever I could at least scout. Even if it just means pushing as something heavier, I don't want to sit somewhere "waiting for my time"

I thought about going for Stalker-5m with 5x SRM 6 and a couple of medium lasers for high alpha destroying and I looked into the victor with 2x ppc and 2x ac5.

Maybe some LRMs instead of all srm on that stalker to have something to do all game - I dont know - you tell me

Spending MC is not an option with Clan Mechs and stuff around the corner, which I might buy.

[Mott]

Pappus, on 02 June 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

...While I am yet not very good at reading the battle correctly I would like to go on to the next mech.
...However I need to do something all match long.
...I don't want to sit somewhere "waiting for my time"

Stick with your lights... you don't seem patient enough yet to move to larger chassis. Heavy and Assault pilots who don't read the battle and just push to "do something" die very fast, embarrassing deaths and hurt their teams by losing 700pts of potential damage early.

Biding one's time, maneuvering for maximum delivery of firepower at the right moment may seem boring and like you're doing nothing... but it's simply the most important part of piloting an Assault or a Heavy.

[Denolven]

Pappus, on 02 June 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

I played ECM spider and mastered Firestarter.
I really enjoy that playstyle of having high speed, however I could see me switching to more brawling and trade my speed for it.
However I need to do something all match long.

Be warned, assaults are not brawlers, they are clumsy frontline breakers. If you are looking for brawling, heavies and mediums are the way to go. Although that "I can't sit still for more than 20 seconds" thing is probably going to get you killed more often than needed.

The problem is: mediums and heavies are so big that people don't miss them. So striking from an unexpected position is alot harder. But if you are good at that (and if you flanked alot in your Firestarters, you probably are), then you might want to try one of the Hunchbacks. They have really good firepower and are able to oneshot people from behind if they skimped on back armor too much. Also as mediums they are still capable of relatively high speed, so you can pick your fights.
But note that it requires you to spread incoming damage as much as possible, because everyone will go for that fat bazooka on your shoulder.

Medium mechs are still fast and versatile, but will catch more attention. They will teach you how to survive. If you do well in a medium mech, you can consider yourself done with the basic fighting training.

PS: sorry for late answer

Edited by Denolven, 11 June 2014 - 02:39 AM.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Pappus, on 02 June 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

I played ECM spider and mastered Firestarter.

What I like in the latter is the ability to high alpha targets from behind, which I managed to flank. (Well 40 damage is not that bad for a light) or the whole circle of death and even the abiltiy to brawl to an extend. While I am yet not very good at reading the battle correctly I would like to go on to the next mech.

I really enjoy that playstyle of having high speed, however I could see me switching to more brawling and trade my speed for it.

However I need to do something all match long.

As a light, when there was nothing to strike/flank whatever I could at least scout. Even if it just means pushing as something heavier, I don't want to sit somewhere "waiting for my time"

I thought about going for Stalker-5m with 5x SRM 6 and a couple of medium lasers for high alpha destroying and I looked into the victor with 2x ppc and 2x ac5.

Maybe some LRMs instead of all srm on that stalker to have something to do all game - I dont know - you tell me

Spending MC is not an option with Clan Mechs and stuff around the corner, which I might buy.

Trenchbucket is your choice then. Variants to have: 3C,5J,7K

Loadouts: 7K: brawler with AC20 + 2 medium lasers,250STD engine (stock) FF and endo(its the poor mans YLW)
5J: laserboat with jumpjets 2LL+3 medium lasers,XL325, FF and endo
3C: missile support with 300XL,be creative,its great out of the box,390 engine cap,so sky is the limit