795 replies to this topic

[111DOA111]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 April 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

Why the Apostrophe in WOT's does the World belong to the Tanks?

YES...them and maybe the arty...as there is no planes, boats, or inf in that game.
....and being a "grammar {Godwin's Law}" on the internet says your overcompensating for something else...that or your an English teacher... o.O?
Keeping to the MWO topic at hand...it will be surely be interesting on wait times come 3/3/3/3 if allot of these 80 something % of solo droppers keep running the majority of matches in assaults or lights... O.o?

Also I'm born Canadian that despises the English language.

Edited by 111DOA111, 11 April 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 11 April 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

That suggests an insufficient grasp of the English language. I do hope that is not his primary tongue. Otherwise, that will suggest something even worse.

Not if he is correct, then it says a lot about the folks at WOT(')s...

111DOA111, on 11 April 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

YES...them and maybe the arty...as there is no planes, boats, or inf in that game.
....and being a "grammar {Godwin's Law}" on the internet says your overcompensating for something else...that or your an English teacher... o.O?
Keeping to the MWO topic at hand...it will be surely be interesting on wait times come 3/3/3/3 if allot of these 80 something % of solo droppers keep running the majority of matches in assaults or lights... O.o?

I just couldn't help myself when I read the the OP... I have a long history of abusing the English language on purpose. I blame it on George Carlin!

[smokefield]

sometimes when i am reading these forums i get so sad about what i wanted this game to be and how marvelous pgi played us....

Quote

Then they don't know our needs. I don't need a Premium match to play the game I was sold. I was sold a game where Lyrans would be fighting Jade Falcons and/or Wolves On Zoetameer... winner gets the planet losers buy the beer. That is the game many of us are here for.

yes...we are. but we will never get it because thats probably the plan..

Quote

You've said it how many times Joseph? The current state of the game is not "The Game". Launch Module is another step on the journey, but it's not "The Game".

yes its not the game...but what are we waiting for it is in a such distant future that may never come to life...

Quote

The Lauch Modules are not The Game I am here for. I am getting bored not hearing what is being done for the folks who want to play the game not private matches.

because probably not much is beeing done...beacuse most likely its better to milk milk milk than put an effort and deliver what ppl are expecting.

now - the sooner we understand this the easier for us will be. we can enjoy what we have..we can spend the money we want to spend and we can avoid endless talk about things that may be...but probably wont.

[Demuder]

Mystere, on 11 April 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

What is so wrong about accepting personal responsibility, regardless of the underlying environment?

That is a very good argument, however personal responsibility implies freedom of choice. I can take personal responsibility for all the decisions I made in my life where I could control all parameters, (ie choosing a major in college). I can't take personal responsibility for the decisions I made when someone else was also in control (like what I did while enlisted in the army for example). There, the responsibility is actually shared with varying degrees among parties.

I don't think that oversimplify things -just like in real life- and say the "game gave you lemons, make lemonade" is correct here. If I had designed the game, I would not be blaming anyone. Alas, I have not (hehe, talk about bragging). So the responsibility is shared among the devs for designing (and raising expectations and failing, etc etc) and the players for playing (and yes, abusing and exploiting as well).

Right now, the whole game consists of
a) buying mechs after excruciating (in my personal view) grind, or buying them with real money at the price of a whole other game for each one. As far as part a) goes, I won't say anything more.
b) play in 12v12 PVP matchups. For better or worse, that's the whole game at this point in time and nobody knows for how long in the future.

So as far as b) goes, whether I stomp everyone in my wake or not, every time I leave a match I have a feeling that something is wrong. Occasionally I get a match that I really enjoy that rekindles my hopes for the game (and that certainly doesn't mean that I had a landslide victory, I get the same feeling after a valiant defeat). Honestly, I don't believe that any player should have to contribute more to the second part of the game than that. Thus, I believe I and most of the other players, have done our parts to the fullest possible. But, can I say the same for PGI ? I don't think so.

The amount of negative and positive feedback, constructive criticism and outright blatant whining on the forums is phenomenal. I can choose to believe that thousands of posters are self serving low skill puggers or teamplay elitists or I can choose to believe that there is something inherently wrong with the game design. Based on my personal experience I choose the latter.

[Joseph Mallan]

smokefield, on 11 April 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

sometimes when i am reading these forums i get so sad about what i wanted this game to be and how marvelous pgi played us....



yes...we are. but we will never get it because thats probably the plan..





yes its not the game...but what are we waiting for it is in a such distant future that may never come to life...



because probably not much is beeing done...beacuse most likely its better to milk milk milk than put an effort and deliver what ppl are expecting.

now - the sooner we understand this the easier for us will be. we can enjoy what we have..we can spend the money we want to spend and we can avoid endless talk about things that may be...but probably wont.

And somewhere, the universe quietly weeps.

[Joseph Mallan]

dimstog, on 11 April 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

That is a very good argument, however personal responsibility implies freedom of choice. I can take personal responsibility for all the decisions I made in my life where I could control all parameters, (ie choosing a major in college). I can't take personal responsibility for the decisions I made when someone else was also in control (like what I did while enlisted in the army for example). There, the responsibility is actually shared with varying degrees among parties.

I will disagree here sir. For instance. I was in our company's Mountain Warfare Training in Korea. I had just watched my friend Australian Repelling attempt fail ended in a face full of Rock! I just, 'NOPEd' The Captain told me I had to or He'd write me up.

My Reply?

Quote

Gimme a pen and paper sir. I'll write myself up. You. God. AND a pack of wild horses from Hel are not getting me on that rope!

You always have the power to choose. But you have to willing to face the repercussions for the choice you make.
...
...
...
For the record, I was not wrote up.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 April 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[LastPaladin]

East Indy, on 06 April 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Remember, we're dudes playing a game run by other dudes actively monitoring us. It's not like there aren't social controls to prevent cheating.

This assumes that the guys really are actively monitoring us and would care to do anything to stop it if they witnessed cheating. I've played plenty of games where admins just weren't that concerned about cheating, and made only lackluster efforts to stop it.

[Joseph Mallan]

I want to like this Paladin... But I just can't!

[Demuder]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 April 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Your Grandma is wise... cause bragging is stretching the truth Did yor Granma ever tell you to "Tell it to a Marine"?

1) My win loss since wipe is .500, My Kill Death is a even 1.0... can't be more balanced than that can it.

2) I think this is sorta vague, Cause I don't know fro sure what PGI intended. I know I can kill some Jenners an not others. I know My missiles are effective against some groups and a waste of tonnage against others. I know that overlapping fields of fire and massed firepower should kill my teams enemy in an effective systematic manner. I know I am playing a combat game against people who want a hand tied behind the back of their enemy, because they "deserve" a fair fight even though simple logic is the best team wins the match. Back when we were in Closed Beta and I could play as part of an 8 man team I won and lost 60/40. I got rolled and rolled others on a fairly even balance So over all the game was exactly what I expected. I got to be rolled by the best and beat those not as good as we were as a team. Now I can at best only team up with 3 Lawmen and that is sad, cause listening to 11 drunken baby killing psychopaths is freaking hilarious!

3) I only do blame myself for my lopsided losses... just as I pat my back when I Score 1,000 damage 4 kills and 7 assists in a victory. I have yet to face a Meta that the right strategy and good team work can not overcome... But the Solo players don't want to see what real team players can do when they are working as one. I marvel at watching a team "doing it right" and cannot find it in me to get mad when I see thunder and precision storming over my team. The game's mechanics does not make a good player into an idiot. But they will distinguish the two pretty quickly.

My grandma was Greek (just like me) and born in 1910. I doubt she knew what marines are before passing on. I guess however that there's a universal truth about braggards :-)

I do understand your arguments and I won't even try to fend them. However, in order to get my point across. What if PGI took the trouble to show in the tab screen whether you are playing against a premade or not. Would be very simple. Show the players that team dropped in a different color.

Wouldn't that take all that theorizing about whether premades are a factor in landslides ? Wouldn't it relieve the confusion of many players of why they were bashed to the wall ? Wouldn't it work as an incentive for solo players to try and find a group to play with instead of blaiming the poptart ?

But even for something so simple, PGI is totally absent. They won't even go as far as putting a lobby in. They won't even implement standard emote shortcuts, which are standard in every multiplayer game. Instead, they prefer having their community tearing each other a new one every day in the forums.

I won't even go into balancing and design, which are admittedly a lot more complicated than community tools.

[Joseph Mallan]

dimstog, on 11 April 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

1)My grandma was Greek (just like me) and born in 1910. I doubt she knew what marines are before passing on. I guess however that there's a universal truth about braggards :-)

2)I do understand your arguments and I won't even try to fend them. However, in order to get my point across. What if PGI took the trouble to show in the tab screen whether you are playing against a premade or not. Would be very simple. Show the players that team dropped in a different color.

3)Wouldn't that take all that theorizing about whether premades are a factor in landslides ? Wouldn't it relieve the confusion of many players of why they were bashed to the wall ? Wouldn't it work as an incentive for solo players to try and find a group to play with instead of blaiming the poptart ?

4)But even for something so simple, PGI is totally absent. They won't even go as far as putting a lobby in. They won't even implement standard emote shortcuts, which are standard in every multiplayer game. Instead, they prefer having their community tearing each other a new one every day in the forums.

I won't even go into balancing and design, which are admittedly a lot more complicated than community tools.

1) Marines 238 Years old... Your Gram knew about them.

2) I probably wouldn't use it as I don't worry about who I am fighting just that I am fighting. My best v your best.

3) I have never worried about how I win or lose just that I do one or the other, I I lose by a landslide, the enemy was better then I was. If I win by landslide then I was better then you. Either way I roll with it and move on. I guess gaming for 31+ years I learn that sometimes I will be the bug and not the windshield.

4) Maybe that is why we don't deserve nice things. If we cannot play nice with the toys we have, maybe we don't deserve better toys.

At least that was the lesson I was taught as a child.

[Roadbeer]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 April 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

I will disagree here sir. For instance. I was in our company's Mountain Warfare Training in Korea.

Not Pickle Meadows MWTC?
Sorry, it's in my backyard and this stuck out at me

Resume your conversation

[Demuder]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 April 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

4) Maybe that is why we don't deserve nice things. If we cannot play nice with the toys we have, maybe we don't deserve better toys.

At least that was the lesson I was taught as a child.

Uhm, I meant my grandma was Greek living in Greece all her life. Just like me. Even though she died after the Interwebs, I doubt she had ever heard of them :-)

A gaming company would have the audacity to treat me as a child and not a customer aka "handing me toys" instead of providing and selling a service ? Oh man.... Of course, addressing your customers as children is much easier, you can break all the promises you want and let them sort it out with their therapists afterwards.

Maybe to further illustrate my point... forget you are a founder and have been with the game since the day of its inception. Make a new account. You get 4 trial mechs with a very bad loadout. For some wierd reason you like the game and after a long, hard grind in bad mechs, you get enough C-Bills to buy a true mech. You die in seconds, and it takes a lot games to even understand who is shooting you from where. Even if you shell out $30 to buy a mech straight away, you have to grind with single heatsinks, no endo and crap engine for a lot longer to get the C-Bills to upgrade.

Meanwhile you get no indication as to why the other mechs seem so much better than yours and why you get stomped to the wall, you have no way of knowing that there are 3rd party tools to design your loadout and 3rd party sites to copy loadouts from. Even if you are in the small percentage of players that will go out of their way to research the game they are playing, you will have to grind through several hundred sessions with a subpar mech to get the C-Bills to upgrade it.

But you persist. Finally, you have a pimped out mech, with a competitive loadout. You now know about ghost heat, pinpoint damage, frontloaded damage, dps and heat management. Information you had to wean off of various websites and forums because they are neither intuitive mechanics nor is there any way to find it in game. In fact, you had to design and copy your loadout from a 3rd party website because the crappy ingame mechlab won't give you any useful information as to your mech's performance. You are still getting stomped and don't know why.

Finally it dawns on you. Maybe the people you are playing against are using something more than the apparently useless ingame chat. But that can't be possible, there's no indication of an ingame community other than an incospicuous button with 3 people at the bottom. When you press it you can create a group that noone will join and a button to invite friends that you have no way of knowing their handles. Other than randomly picking ones in the heat of battle that is. And this is happening in a TEAM BASED GAME (well, according to your view).

What I have described is what I believe would be a process that may last from 2 weeks to 2 months for a regular gamer - who by the way is in no way lazy, stupid or selfish. They downloaded a game and started playing as per the instructions given to them.

Do you understand what I mean by bad design ? Maybe all that should be fixed before accusing players for being lazy or stupid ?

Edited by dimstog, 11 April 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[Sandpit]

dimstog, on 11 April 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

When a pilot makes a mistake and find themselves surrounded by four mechs, they are obliterated in 2 seconds - that's because of mechanics, not because of the lack of skill of the doomed pilot or the excellent skills of the ganging pilots,

uhm....

Quote

When a pilot makes a mistake

Quote

they are obliterated in 2 seconds - that's because of mechanics, not because of the lack of skill of the doomed pilot

Surely I'm not the only one who sees the contradiction in this statement?

Yes, yes it IS because of pilot skill and not mechanics

Quote

When a pilot makes a mistake

I want that quote to sink in a bit....

[Mystere]

dimstog, on 11 April 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

What if PGI took the trouble to show in the tab screen whether you are playing against a premade or not. Would be very simple. Show the players that team dropped in a different color.

The result of this is very predictable. Assuming that premades were identified to both teams, the team with no or less premades will most likely quickly lose its members via disconnects.

Player 1: "OMFG! They have a 4-man and we don't. This is BS! I'm outta here." <disconnects>
Player 2: <disconnects>
Player 3: <disconnects>
...

Edited by Mystere, 11 April 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 11 April 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

The result of this is very predictable. Assuming that premades were identified to both teams, the team with no or less premades will most likely quickly lose its members via disconnects.

Player 1: "OMFG! They have a 4-man and we don't. This is BS! I'm outta here." <disconnects>
Player 2: <disconnects>
Player 3: <disconnects>
...

well and the inevitable
"See? They won because they had a premade!" (never mind that the 5 matches prior to that they just won in a row)

[Demuder]

Sandpit, on 11 April 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

Yes, yes it IS because of pilot skill and not mechanics

It is also dependant on numbers. Given a certain amount of armor, it could take any amount of time depending on damage. Ie 100 armor torso can be taken in 2 current meta alphas or in 10 alphas if someone tweaks an xml sheet. God forbid if we did something about pinpoint damage as well. I think it is a very simple concept.

Mystere, on 11 April 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

The result of this is very predictable. Assuming that premades were identified to both teams, the team with no or less premades will most likely quickly lose its members via disconnects.

Player 1: "OMFG! They have a 4-man and we don't. This is BS! I'm outta here." <disconnects>
Player 2: <disconnects>
Player 3: <disconnects>
...

Sandpit, on 11 April 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

well and the inevitable
"See? They won because they had a premade!" (never mind that the 5 matches prior to that they just won in a row)

Wait! You mean that the result you describe, is different than the one we have now where noone has any idea if there is a premade on the other team or even on your team ? Because I can almost swear that whenever there's a stomp victory, the losing side always cries premade even if they have no clue if that was the case. What's more, they have no idea if there was a premade on their side as well.

Maybe that way it can be proven that premades don't necessarily mean a landslide victory, huh ? But who would want to know that for certain instead of just theorizing and calling solo players names... Full disclosure I say. That's just the kind of guy I am. But then again, past experience tells us that sweeping stuff under the rag is always a good tactic.

Even if it is proven that premades greatly unbalance the game, it would be a good stepping stone to actually do something about it. PGI has designed the game to accomodate both solo players and team drops - whether you like it or not, that's a very simple fact. They should take measures to ensure that both groups of players play on an even basis.

Or, if you believe that the game should be a team only experience, maybe turn your insults and anger towards PGI for allowing the devilish solo players polute your queues, and not against players that don't even have a decent community tool to start making groups or communicate ingame. And I am not talking about the holy grail of in-game voice comms, but even simple emote shortcuts like "FOLLOW ME" or "DEFEND HERE".

Edited by dimstog, 11 April 2014 - 01:58 PM.

[Mystere]

dimstog, on 11 April 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Wait! You mean that the result you describe, is different than the one we have now where noone has any idea if there is a premade on the other team or even on your team ? Because I can almost swear that whenever there's a stomp victory, the losing side always cries premade even if they have no clue if that was the case. What's more, they have no idea if there was a premade on their side as well.

You did not get my point which is ...

Many people will quit even before the match starts if they think they are on the losing side of a premade or weight disparity. That is the very reason why premades are not tagged and why the enemy mech composition is not disclosed.

Don't you think people have already asked for such features? I like full disclosure too. But, the current playerbase "leaves a lot to be desired" (to put it ever so mildly) as far as attitude is concerned.

I have seen a whole lot of players quit a match simply because they saw an entire lance displaying the same faction symbol and then announcing:

"This is BS! That's a premade on the other side and we have none!"

before promptly quitting the match. Those same players probably did not even know that the enemy team is listed in alphabetical order.

And just to let you know. I play only solo, and I have been doing so since closed beta.

Edited by Mystere, 11 April 2014 - 02:15 PM.

[Craig Steele]

Almond Brown, on 11 April 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

So in effect, it is more about the enemies Tactics, then it is about how much armor the King has... Hmmm, interesting....

P.S. I do believe the number of Sherman's required was 5.

Mystere was talking about T-34's, why would I do the comparison to Shermans?

[Sandpit]

dimstog, on 11 April 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

It is also dependant on numbers. Given a certain amount of armor, it could take any amount of time depending on damage. Ie 100 armor torso can be taken in 2 current meta alphas or in 10 alphas if someone tweaks an xml sheet. God forbid if we did something about pinpoint damage as well. I think it is a very simple concept.




Wait! You mean that the result you describe, is different than the one we have now where noone has any idea if there is a premade on the other team or even on your team ? Because I can almost swear that whenever there's a stomp victory, the losing side always cries premade even if they have no clue if that was the case. What's more, they have no idea if there was a premade on their side as well.

Maybe that way it can be proven that premades don't necessarily mean a landslide victory, huh ? But who would want to know that for certain instead of just theorizing and calling solo players names... Full disclosure I say. That's just the kind of guy I am. But then again, past experience tells us that sweeping stuff under the rag is always a good tactic.

Even if it is proven that premades greatly unbalance the game, it would be a good stepping stone to actually do something about it. PGI has designed the game to accomodate both solo players and team drops - whether you like it or not, that's a very simple fact. They should take measures to ensure that both groups of players play on an even basis.

Or, if you believe that the game should be a team only experience, maybe turn your insults and anger towards PGI for allowing the devilish solo players polute your queues, and not against players that don't even have a decent community tool to start making groups or communicate ingame. And I am not talking about the holy grail of in-game voice comms, but even simple emote shortcuts like "FOLLOW ME" or "DEFEND HERE".

Point being "pilot makes a mistake" is NOT in any way representative of an imbalance in weapon systems. It's representative of a pilot making a mistake and getting blown to bits for it.

[Craig Steele]

Mystere, on 11 April 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

You did not get my point which is ...

Many people will quit even before the match starts if they think they are on the losing side of a premade or weight disparity. That is the very reason why premades are not tagged and why the enemy mech composition is not disclosed.

Don't you think people have already asked for such features? I like full disclosure too. But, the current playerbase "leaves a lot to be desired" (to put it ever so mildly) as far as attitude is concerned.

I have seen a whole lot of players quit a match simply because they saw an entire lance displaying the same faction symbol and then announcing:

"This is BS! That's a premade on the other side and we have none!"

before promptly quitting the match. Those same players probably did not even know that the enemy team is listed in alphabetical order.

And just to let you know. I play only solo, and I have been doing so since closed beta.

Mystere, are you saying that you have seen "Many" players express they don't want to play in an enviroment where they have a disadvantage (notwithstanding that the information they use to assess that is not specific to the question). That they actually log out of a game where they perceive they are facing a team with advantages?

Cause this thread is about how Team players can play in an environment with in game advantages.

I wonder if PGI should be concerned about this apparent mis match and it's impact on players of both sides?