53 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

I disagree with the sentiment that not using consumables is not conducive to getting money.

The remote possibility of "tipping the scales" assuming all matches have a 50-50 chance of winning... it's worth it. Whether it is using a UAV to spot the enemy presence, or to use arty on Mordor to stop enemy entry into the dome.

It's a sunk cost, admittedly, but sometimes it is the difference between success and failure.

In the particular case of the UAV, you can recover some of money through the basic rewards for winning/losing (25000) and the UAV detection bonus. Anything else you get is a "bonus" IMO. If you simply "break even", you would have collected XP over that time which is imperative for accelerating XP growth in a light mech.

Also one other thing... I know PGI has posted (through Twitter IIRC) what their reward numbers are per class on average, but unfortunately I believe the UAV influences lights more (since they can reach their destinations quicker and are usually in a better position to deploy them), so it affects their earnings in an "inflated" way.

It is a contextual thing though and I'm sure people will disagree, but the UAV has always been a reliable source of money growth for me, even if I have to pay for it. Arty deployments require being extra selective.

Remember that winning guarantees salvage... so that's something to really think about in the cost analysis. If you consider that Salvage consists of like 10k on average, you're "making back your money" in theory.... only for ONE consumable though.

Also, I'm not sure if this is still true, but last time I had my Conquest vs Assault gains calculated, I got on average 10k more on Conquest than Assault. Although I'm unsure if that's still the case now, but I would not just "write it off". The more time you spend in Conquest, the more likely your payout is, especially if you win.

If you are wasting your consumable though (like using it to just use it), you are wasting money.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 April 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[Jman5]

Hey Deathlike thanks for the response. Let me try to address some of your points.

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I disagree with the sentiment that not using consumables is not conducive to getting money.

The remote possibility of "tipping the scales" assuming all matches have a 50-50 chance of winning... it's worth it. Whether it is using a UAV to spot the enemy presence, or to use arty on Mordor to stop enemy entry into the dome.

It's a sunk cost, admittedly, but sometimes it is the difference between success and failure.

I understand your argument and you may be right. However the problem is that it's extremely difficult to quantify how many of your games the UAV is the deciding factor between winning and losing. I don't have any concrete evidence that using a UAV translates into X% increased chance of winning and thus translates into an average of Y cbills profits over time. In fact looking at my stats, games with a UAV actually has lower w/l rate than some other modules I commonly use. So that might even contradict this assertion. Either way, it's too difficult to quantify IMO and so I focus on the basic stuff I can add up which are the UAV monetary rewards. Minus a miracle game while piloting a hero mech under premium time, you wont make the 40,000 cbills back. I did the math in a previous post here.

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In the particular case of the UAV, you can recover some of money through the basic rewards for winning/losing (25000)

That 25,000 cbill reward you see at the top is actually a flat reward you get regardless of winning or losing. So you can't really add it into the UAV equation because you will get it no matter what you do or what you bring.

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Also, I'm not sure if this is still true, but last time I had my Conquest vs Assault gains calculated, I got on average 10k more on Conquest than Assault. Although I'm unsure if that's still the case now, but I would not just "write it off". The more time you spend in Conquest, the more likely your payout is, especially if you win.

Hey you gave me a great idea to look at my own cbill reward per game mode in the profile page.

looking at my earnings...

Assault:
W/L 1.32
cbill: 108,988

Conquest:
W/L: 1.42
cbill: 83,146

Skirmish:
W/L: 1.98
cbill: 102,985

Despite my higher Win/Loss ratio in conquest compared to assault, I have a significantly higher cbill return in assault. My point stands, but feel free to check out your own page and do whatever earns you more money.

[Deathlike]

Jman5, on 22 April 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

I understand your argument and you may be right. However the problem is that it's extremely difficult to quantify how many of your games the UAV is the deciding factor between winning and losing. I don't have any concrete evidence that using a UAV translates into X% increased chance of winning and thus translates into an average of Y cbills profits over time. In fact looking at my stats, games with a UAV actually has lower w/l rate than some other modules I commonly use. So that might even contradict this assertion. Either way, it's too difficult to quantify IMO and so I focus on the basic stuff I can add up which are the UAV monetary rewards. Minus a miracle game while piloting a hero mech under premium time, you wont make the 40,000 cbills back. I did the math in a previous post here.

Well, I don't have any hero mechs, so it's hard to make a proper comparison.

I will say that not EVERY match I use the UAV and/or Arty, but I guess the best time to use it is very situational. If your arty encompasses like 4 mechs, it's worth a lot more (you recover some of it through damage, but it will obviously NEVER cover the cost of using it). Same goes with the UAV... so I'm punished for "poor execution" of the item. I strictly worry about the UAV detection (aka more mechs detected recoups some of the cost). Anything after that is a bonus.

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That 25,000 cbill reward you see at the top is actually a flat reward you get regardless of winning or losing. So you can't really add it into the UAV equation because you will get it no matter what you do or what you bring.

That's how I justify it TBH. It's how I go about it. 25k C-bills is just nothing so even if I come out at 0, it's more or less what I treat it as. If I WIN, 100k is optimal a result for me, and usually more if I properly use UAV/Arties properly. It's a "financial risk".

Quote

Hey you gave me a great idea to look at my own cbill reward per game mode in the profile page.

looking at my earnings...

Assault:
W/L 1.32
cbill: 108,988

Conquest:
W/L: 1.42
cbill: 83,146

Skirmish:
W/L: 1.98
cbill: 102,985

Despite my higher Win/Loss ratio in conquest compared to assault, I have a significantly higher cbill return in assault. My point stands, but feel free to check out your own page and do whatever earns you more money.

Assault:
W/L ratio - 1.29
C-bills avg - 92909

Conquest:
W/L ratio - 1.38
C-bills avg - 85435

Skirmish:
W/L ratio - 1.41
C-bills avg - 95820

I think what harmed a lot of the Conquest #s is exclusively the "Conquest doesn't give you full rewards on cap win bug" and ESPECIALLY "Conquest losses give you 1/4 of full resource reward".

Personally, PGI screwed up Conquest severely.

Here's my #s from my archived stats (open beta until stat reset):

Assault:
W/L ratio - 1.27
C-bills avg - 91460

Conquest:
W/L ratio - 1.27
C-bills avg - 100229 <<<----------------- That was my original assertion.

Skirmish:
W/L ratio - 1.17 (inaccurate because they took forever to fix it when it was introduced)
C-bills avg - 102537 (probably inaccurate as well)

Based on the #s, I will play Conquest LESS. Thank PGI for nerfing an entire gamemode!

Edited by Deathlike, 22 April 2014 - 02:37 PM.

[Darth Futuza]

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If you leave or disconnect before dying, you will only get rewards you gained prior to leaving. This means no future assist bonus and no salvage if your team wins. However, if you die and leave, you will still get full bonuses as if you were still in game. Don’t stick around after you die if you’re trying to maximize your cbills.

Sticking around means you could potentially make some good strategy calls and lead team to victory though...especially if no one is taking charge. Spectators have a great view of the battlefield.

[Sug]

Jman5, on 16 April 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

Again don't get me wrong; Consumables are fantastic. the UAV is especially great for grinding experience. However, they come at a cost that you can't realistically overcome.

Agreed. 90% of the time popping a UAV isn't worth it, as far as earning cbills. Basically it's only worth the money if it's mid/late game, gets you assists on mechs you've tapped, there are LRM boats on your team, and it wins you the game. And even then you might only make like 10-20k after the cost of a UAV.

Edited by Sug, 21 July 2014 - 01:21 PM.

[War Kitten]

Greetings All,

Fut is correct, recently I got nailed about 1 min into match, no shots fired, and still got at least the winning $25k, (personally, I think the winners should get something like $50k if they win as a sort of incentive to win). It was quite the annoyance tho!

War Kitten

"I went into a store and asked the clerk if he had any maps without an aerial view....."

[ExoForce]

It looks to me that we missed one crucial advice for new players.
Play PUG assault until you learn the game. Why?

There are big boys playing Conquest and Skimrish. New player will die fast = less income and big frustration.

[Petard]

Good post...Top marks for maths and comprehension...A+ student, well done...

[Bigbacon]

sadly for me the only way to get bills is Hero + Premium. If I didn't use both of those to grind, I'd probably average under 100k per round with a win even.

Assault mode also helps if you take something with ranged weapons OR fast with lots of weaons, and just go on a turret killing spree.

Edited by Bigbacon, 03 October 2014 - 09:08 AM.

[warner2]

Bigbacon, on 03 October 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

sadly for me the only way to get bills is Hero + Premium. If I didn't use both of those to grind, I'd probably average under 100k per round with a win even.

Assault mode also helps if you take something with ranged weapons OR fast with lots of weaons, and just go on a turret killing spree.

Your primary aim in the match should always be to win IMO. If your team wins there is a good chance you've killed all of the other team and if your team gets 12 kills then there is your opportunity to get 6+ assists and assists give good CBills.

Killing turrets to earn a few CBills or XP (whatever, I don't know what you get for that but I suppose it's peanuts) is not going to help your team win the match (usually).

[Escef]

Just one defensive kill bonus in Conquest looks like it would frequently be worth the difference (and than some) in some of those reward values. IMX, defensive kills are not common in Assault, and they are non-existent in Skirmish. Combined with the point bonus payout, it seems to me that Conquest has the most potential for consistently higher rewards.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Escef, on 03 October 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

Just one defensive kill bonus in Conquest looks like it would frequently be worth the difference (and than some) in some of those reward values. IMX, defensive kills are not common in Assault, and they are non-existent in Skirmish. Combined with the point bonus payout, it seems to me that Conquest has the most potential for consistently higher rewards.

Potential.

Yes.

IF
People actually fought ON the caps.

[Escef]

Shar Wolf, on 06 October 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Potential.

Yes.

IF
People actually fought ON the caps.

I've seen conquest games where most of the fighting was well away from the caps and conquest games where most of the fighting was on the caps. IMX, fighting on the caps is most common in Therma and Alpine, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if everyone's experience in this was very different.

[Alaskan Nobody]

I usually see both teams fighting about 20 feet from the cap