90 replies to this topic

[Gigastrike]

Vellinious, on 13 April 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

Question: Why would anyone want to use the dragon, when there are other mechs out there that are far more capable?

Because they ridge-hump like there's no tomorrow. Put a PPC or two in the 1C's left torso, or a nice AC in the Flame's, and you have a fast mech that can take shots and fade away before running to another spot.

Granted the Shadowhawk also does this well.

[Amsro]

Vellinious, on 13 April 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

What's a "ZOMG Easy Button"? I'm not familiar with it....is it something the Dragon doesn't have? lol

For the record....I'm a Jenner pilot. There is no easy button.

Dual AC/5 + Dual PPC + JJ = Easy Button = One click = Now you get it

Dragons are an easy target so it requires skill to use it. Jenners are also easy to CT core. Definately requires skill to not get dead.

Edited by Amsro, 13 April 2014 - 04:19 PM.

[MonkeyDCecil]

If your not running at least a 300xl in a Dragon, you doing it wrong.

[DONTOR]

Answer = YES

[Mad Ox]

Working up the Flame, Fang, and 5N(C) came to these realizations. I pretty much run XL300 in all 3.

- XL and big one at that other then to mount AC20, it is a must need to get that mech moving fast. Faster your moving hard it is for enemy to target center. Which trust me they are targeting since its so easy to nail.

- With speed the layout of dragon seem to naturally spread damage out quite well.

- A sitting dragon is a moment away from someone nuking their center torso. But this is true of any mech. MOVE!!!

- While the Engine in torsos is a increased risk. Through out games on average I saw 2 things:
-- my Center torso gets cored so XL vs standard both engines down but got increased power/weight savings of XL
-- Side torso goes BUT mech is a walking heap arms gone legs gone etc. So side or center just a matter of another hit or 2 was held together with duct tape anyway.

Sure occasionally torso gets cored takes me out right away but vs the boosted engine power/weight savings I get for it more then worth the slight increased risk.

Mech can get moving decently and speed really is another form of armor.
- Lasers instead of concentrating are forced to spread out damage making them much less effective.... See how fun it is to laser down fast moving lights you get the idea
- Ballistic goes from sure shot to oh crap now I have to guess how far to lead the target to hit... greatly decreasing how often you get hit.
- Missiles similar to Ballistic harder they need to work to hit ya less damage you will take. Being able to scoot behind wall or get out of sight helps too. at 1.5 tons hard not to take AMS also for these things.

In the end Speed is life to a Dragon need to make them work for every point of damage.

Edited by Mad Ox, 16 April 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[BOWMANGR]

Dragons are {were} my favorite mechs. I've played them so much I became good at piloting them. I had great matches in my Dragon 1C.

An XL Engine was a boon to the Dragon because if you knew what you were doing it was absolutely impossible to die because of a side torso hit. Cored? Ofcourse. Side torso? Never.

Then, PGI decided to change the hitboxes to "make the Dragon better". All they did was destroy the one good quality the Dragon had. Truly impressive XL friendliness for its class. After the change I started, after MONTHS of playing the game non-stop and NOT dying because of my XL engine, to actually die because of side-torso hits!!

It is frustrating because if you try to play the Dragon with a standard engine you KNOW that there are other mechs which can do exactly what you can do only better. The XL's extra tonnage allowed the Dragon to have both speed AND firepower with a minimal extra risk. With experience the XL risk was a non-factor. Now after the hitbox changes the only redeeming quality of the Dragon has vanished. Combined with the high-alpha meta that gets worse each month because every new player thinks that buying an expensive Assault with high alpha weapons will instantly transform him to a better player. Put the ridiculous Jagerbombs and the Victor/Highlanders on pogo sticks shooting easymode ACs+PPCs into the mix and you can understand why an XL is NOT so friendly anymore. And a Dragon without an XL is a bad mech...

Put everything together and you get a net result of Dragon=unplayable. I repeat: before the hitbox changes an XL Dragon was a good mech if the pilot knew what he was doing. Now, it doesn't matter. A lucky AC+PPC shot can kill you.

There are two possible scenarios to redeem the Dragon:

a} Refix the hitboxes again. {highly unlikely as PGI hasn't even fixed the aesthetic changes when loading different weapons on a Dragon so why bother with more practical and meaningful gameplay changes?}

and

b} when 3/3/3/3 hits, combined with a continuous "high alpha strike" builds nerfing by PGI, may, MAY put back the Dragon into the battlefield in its correct role once again: The cavalry of mech warfare. Charge in, hit hard, retreat. Repeat. This was possible before but now a few lucky shots can kill you before you get a chance to spread the damage.


I'm going to try my Dragon 1C again after 3/3/3/3 gets online to see if it can get back to its glory days status of 6 kills and 700 damage every other match.

Edited by BOWMANGR, 16 April 2014 - 01:16 PM.

[cSand]

Vellinious, on 13 April 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

Question: Why would anyone want to use the dragon, when there are other mechs out there that are far more capable?

just cause you aren't effective in it doesn't mean that some of the rest of us aren't

[Verrue]

Im still kicking ass in a Flame even whit torso hitbox changed.

Sure, a dual AC/20 or Gauss in the side torso is not recommended, but you can tweek the side armor to 40 front and 16 behind. The rest is how you can hide & run.


The dragon is still a playable mech, but not for the average player.
You have to adapt to the meta they say....

[Lyoto Machida]

operator0, on 13 April 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

For the challenge.

This x1000.

Vellinious, on 13 April 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

What's a "ZOMG Easy Button"? I'm not familiar with it....is it something the Dragon doesn't have? lol

For the record....I'm a Jenner pilot. There is no easy button.

The Dragon and Awesome are probably the two hardest mechs to run. The Jenner is relatively easy mode in comparison.

[Bromineberry]

BOWMANGR, on 16 April 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

There are two possible scenarios to redeem the Dragon:

a} Refix the hitboxes again. {highly unlikely as PGI hasn't even fixed the aesthetic changes when loading different weapons on a Dragon so why bother with more practical and meaningful gameplay changes?}

Come on, you stole my complains about the Dragon, admit it! I'm happy to see, someone else has the exact same experience...and sad, that the easy fix for this problem won't come. I mean, the side torso hitboxes are already there! They exist...why don't they simply change them back?
I already wondered, how I could ask PGI about their opinion on this...because I really, really, REALLY want my Dragon back. No other mech gave me that much joy while playing it.

Verrue, on 16 April 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Sure, a dual AC/20 or Gauss in the side torso is not recommended, but you can tweek the side armor to 40 front and 16 behind. The rest is how you can hide & run.

Doesn't help that much. It's all about luck.

[Verrue]

Quote

[color=#959595]Doesn't help that much. It's all about luck. [/color]

I would say skill.

Dragon still got an amazing twist range; you can use those big arm as a buffer. I twist mine so much that some game the 2 get blown off.

Only time side torso get hit is when standing immobile in a sniping contest. Players now learned to aim side torso on a dragon as its the weakness to the model. 99 % of them run a XL. Being myself a dragon pilot , its the place i aim when battling another dragon pilot.


Since the hitbox change ; the LRM now hit side torso more often. They spread over you instead of hitting 1 location (mainly center torso , before patch). Just check how LRM are now the savor of the month , and yes, the side torso take quite a beating.

Edited by Verrue, 20 April 2014 - 05:02 AM.

[Motroid]

The story of the DRG is long and full of agony. Back in the days of CB my 1C was sporting a XL400 runnin' at a 120. Then the engine cap gave him the first beating. 106,9 ok guess that has to do it for now.
Secondly they removed Knock-downs completly saying it was broken (actually it was too punishing for newbies) - knocking down slower/lighter mechs with the Dragons big belly/speed combine was one of the points in piloting a DRG. Ok there have been a few issues but nothing that could not just have been adjusted.
Thirdly they altered the fire mechanism of the DRGs best friend besides speed - the Gauss rifle. No snap-shotting no more at a 107 km/h exposing your giant CT only for the moment of fire. Charge-up now. Admittetly you can learn it a bit and time it the way that you charge up while turning TO the target releasing and twist back. But the Gauss nerf did hurt the DRG most imho.
Fourthly the changed the DRGs hitboxes making it less XL friendly what was the redeeming point as brominberry and bowmanger pointed out already.
These four steps left the Dragon sub-par but its very special feeling of agility and the bouncing "hood" make it unique as well. It still has better acceleration, deceleration, twist and turn speed than the QKD or SHD. I hope from the bottom of my heart that 3/3/3/3 will provide a place for the Dragon.

[Bromineberry]

Verrue, on 20 April 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

I would say skill.

Dragon still got an amazing twist range; you can use those big arm as a buffer. I twist mine so much that some game the 2 get blown off.

I twisted mine so much in the past, that exactly this happened. But now, the only thing that gets blown off when I twist are the side torsi. Its a rare occasion, that I loose an arm.

[Clogsman]

Well. I've mastered my flame fang and N1. I have no clue what people here are on about, I averaged 2-3 kills and 400-700 dmg each match once I got used to them.

Dragons love large pulse lasers.

Just put max armor on them and they are quite survivable, don't make it a brawler just hit and run/ridge humping.

My 1N is probably my favourite, max armor, XL360 x2 LPL 2x SRM4. Just shoot and scoot all the time.

Edited by Soladrin, 20 April 2014 - 08:28 AM.

[Verrue]

Since im out of touch in future patch : What's the 3/3/3/3 ?

And how will it help us ?

[BOWMANGR]

Verrue, on 20 April 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Since im out of touch in future patch : What's the 3/3/3/3 ?

And how will it help us ?

When 3/3/3/3 hits the matchmaker will create matches with teams comprised of 3 of each mech class.

This means that there won't be any more of those stupid matches with 5 Assaults, 4 Heavies and 3 Lights.

The overall team tonnage is going to drop and pilots who prefer smaller chassis will have a more balanced experience because the high Alpha builds of Assaults and Heavies won't be there in such large number as they are now. This means longer Time To Kill for all mechs, less Alpha strikes, less Assault noobage and more need for "cavalry" aka the Dragon.

[Verrue]

Oh sweet, that will be a good thing to implant. No more assault gangbang.

this will be a fine time for the dragon to shine.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Many like fast dragons but i find this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...632d448cfc0124b
Is extremely effective.
My DRG-1c: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8908993183319d0
If you cant tell i like brawlers.
The DRG-5n which i love: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...180a604edbbc29e

[Pygar]

Soladrin, on 11 April 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

Simple question, are XL engines too big a liability in a dragon or not?

You pretty much need an XL to get enough speed/armor/firepower on a Dragon to matter. It also just happens that the Dragon's CT and arms are so big that the side torsos don't get hit as often as on some mechs.

[Pygar]

BOWMANGR, on 22 April 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

When 3/3/3/3 hits the matchmaker will create matches with teams comprised of 3 of each mech class.

This means that there won't be any more of those stupid matches with 5 Assaults, 4 Heavies and 3 Lights.

The overall team tonnage is going to drop and pilots who prefer smaller chassis will have a more balanced experience because the high Alpha builds of Assaults and Heavies won't be there in such large number as they are now. This means longer Time To Kill for all mechs, less Alpha strikes, less Assault noobage and more need for "cavalry" aka the Dragon.

Sadly, the "3 rule" will help Medium mechs shine a little bit more, but the Dragon will probably fall into even more of an "ugly duckling" category than it sits in already- it will have to compete for Heavy slot space behind Jagers, Catapults, Cataphracts and Orions... and meanwhile Mediums like Shadow Hawk, Wolverines, Hunchbacks and Centurions do the "middlewieght slugger" job better than the Dragon because they have basically the same weapons/speed/armor but have more agility because they are mediums.