67 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

It exists in lore, and would make for fantastic gameplay. The addition of design elements into the game shouldn't be dictated by "how many times it's mentioned in the books".

This is true. But neither should a tiny part of the game universe take priority over more important functionality features. Unless it somehow literally takes NOTHING away from making new Maps (should be a HUGE priority) and Faction/Role/Community Warfare, it should be on the back burner, until well AFTER all these things are adequately addressed.

[CyclonerM]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 April 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

This is true. But neither should a tiny part of the game universe take priority over more important functionality features. Unless it somehow literally takes NOTHING away from making new Maps (should be a HUGE priority) and Faction/Role/Community Warfare, it should be on the back burner, until well AFTER all these things are adequately addressed.

Are you saying that Community Warfare/faction warfare is not something related to the game universe?

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 14 April 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Are you saying that Community Warfare/faction warfare is not something related to the game universe?

I think he and I are saying that Solaris style play is a small part of the Community Warfare/Faction Warfare. I know I don't want The Steiner/Wolf engagements to be handles like Monday night football. I want it to feel like fighting a war. Don't you?

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 April 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

you are kidding right? How many of the 27 novels involved fighting in the Solaris Arenas. How many of the sourcebooks were about Solaris? TROs? Faction Books? Solaris is a small small part of the full universe and most of the book involved describing the toll of warfare on the Inner Sphere.

Hmm, there's all that stuff about Justin Xiang Allard, and about Kai Allard-Liao, and about Jeremiah Rose, just off the top of my head, plus there's the fact that the two best mission sets in the two best Mechwarrior games in the past (MW2 Mercs and MW4 Mercs) were the Solaris sequences.

Isn't there an entire game mode based on Solaris VII, complete with expanded, more detailed rules that add greater fine-tuning and complexity?

Even aside from that, e-sports don't have to be about traditional field sports. To assume that they do betrays a critical lack of imagination and a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire e-sport system. Given that the bulk of current e-sports include things like MOBAs, FPSs, RTSs, and the like, it seems intellectually dishonest to say that traditional MWO (House v House battles) would be unsuited for e-sports.

[Trauglodyte]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 April 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

If I was a younger man... I would revel in the chance to see if I could stick it to Peyton on the grid iron.

What if you hopped in your Grid Iron?

[D34K]

It's rather late to be talking about esports, since PGI more or less killed the competitive scene already. All but a few of the best teams have quit and will not return -- or at least not until certain toxic PGI/IGP staff are no longer involved in the game. We asked for lobbies and private matches 18+ months ago and we were insulted and dismissed by Paul; he derided the former as "Barren's Chat" and that the latter was not for their target player-base.

I'm currently enjoying playing MWO, but it's still tinged with some bitterness about how poorly they have supported such a passionate community that wanted to build a competitive scene. Look at the some of the player-made leagues that have been set up, PGI have all but killed them when they should be putting resource into supporting and promoting them.

Now they're talking about esports? No chance. Not until there's a huge and contrite apology for the consistent damage done to the competitive scene. Not until the top league units -- who understand and exploit every last floating point of game mechanic -- are actively engaged in how to fix game balance. And not until PGI recognise that the players run better tournaments than they do.

Edited by D34K, 14 April 2014 - 01:12 PM.

[Appogee]

D34K, on 14 April 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

Not until there's a huge and contrite apology for the consistent damage done to the competitive scene. Not until the top league units -- who understand and exploit every last floating point of game mechanic -- are actively engaged in how to fix game balance. And not until PGI recognise that the players run better tournaments than they do.

So, in other words, never.

[Peiper]

Regarding Solaris VII

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

It exists in lore, and would make for fantastic gameplay. The addition of design elements into the game shouldn't be dictated by "how many times it's mentioned in the books".

VTOL's, Aerospace, Tanks, Hovercraft, Infantry, Mobile Headquarters, convoys, dropships, and battle armor all exist in lore too...

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Peiper, on 14 April 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

Regarding Solaris VII



VTOL's, Aerospace, Tanks, Hovercraft, Infantry, Mobile Headquarters, convoys, dropships, and battle armor all exist in lore too...

Oh hey, more things that it'd be great for PGI to add eventually, just like Solaris VII-style matches and a publicly available spectator mode.

[Cattra Kell]

Appogee, on 12 April 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

I enjoy listening to the NG:NG podcasts for the hard-hitting questions and investigation of matters of concern to the MWO playerbase.

Thanks for my new t-shirt design

[Name140704]

Cattra Kell, on 15 April 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Thanks for my new t-shirt design

You're communicating with Paul too much if you think any part of that picture isn't what many people think of the podcast.

[Hellcat420]

mwo will be the laughingstock of the esport world.

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 14 April 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Hmm, there's all that stuff about Justin Xiang Allard, and about Kai Allard-Liao, and about Jeremiah Rose, just off the top of my head, plus there's the fact that the two best mission sets in the two best Mechwarrior games in the past (MW2 Mercs and MW4 Mercs) were the Solaris sequences.

Isn't there an entire game mode based on Solaris VII, complete with expanded, more detailed rules that add greater fine-tuning and complexity?

Even aside from that, e-sports don't have to be about traditional field sports. To assume that they do betrays a critical lack of imagination and a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire e-sport system. Given that the bulk of current e-sports include things like MOBAs, FPSs, RTSs, and the like, it seems intellectually dishonest to say that traditional MWO (House v House battles) would be unsuited for e-sports.

that is nothing more than opinion. in my opinion those solaris sequences were the most boring missions of those games.

[Roland]

Hellcat420, on 15 April 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

mwo will be the laughingstock of the esport world.


that is nothing more than opinion. in my opinion those solaris sequences were the most boring missions of those games.

All of the single player missions were boring.
The real value of mechwarrior 4 came from online planetary league play.

Basically all that stuff they were supposed to implement in mwo and call community warfare? Yeah, we did that using php ten years ago.

Russ' ideas that mwo is going to become some kind of e-sport is laughable given how terrible paul is at balancing the game. Oh yeah, I know, he played on a counterstrike server once, so he knows what competitive online shooters are all about!

And let's not ignore how ridiculous it is to expect a game to become a serious competitive game when it actively prohibits Team play.

I think pgi's management is just too far up their own asses to realize how by prohibiting groups of 5 to 11 players, you effectively preclude groups from ever getting 12 people online at the same time... Despite the fact that we have told them exactly this, hundreds of times now.

So the game basically prevents the formation of 12 man teams (because, believe it or not, 12 guys don't just materialize into existence and want to play your game), and yet somehow it is going to be an esport? Played by who?

Hell, now you have folks complaining that even when dropping solo, they can't find matches, despite the fact that the elo matching has bell loosened to the point where it does effectively nothing. This means the games population is absolutely in the gutter, as many of us predicted it would be.

What is so sad is that we had such high hopes for this game. And it's not like the changes to win back a ton of players would require a huge effort. It would just require pgi to swallow their pride and admit they made mistakes.

[Hellcat420]

Roland, on 15 April 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

All of the single player missions were boring.
The real value of mechwarrior 4 came from online planetary league play.

Basically all that stuff they were supposed to implement in mwo and call community warfare? Yeah, we did that using php ten years ago.

Russ' ideas that mwo is going to become some kind of e-sport is laughable given how terrible paul is at balancing the game. Oh yeah, I know, he played on a counterstrike server once, so he knows what competitive online shooters are all about!

And let's not ignore how ridiculous it is to expect a game to become a serious competitive game when it actively prohibits Team play.

I think pgi's management is just too far up their own asses to realize how by prohibiting groups of 5 to 11 players, you effectively preclude groups from ever getting 12 people online at the same time... Despite the fact that we have told them exactly this, hundreds of times now.

So the game basically prevents the formation of 12 man teams (because, believe it or not, 12 guys don't just materialize into existence and want to play your game), and yet somehow it is going to be an esport? Played by who?

Hell, now you have folks complaining that even when dropping solo, they can't find matches, despite the fact that the elo matching has bell loosened to the point where it does effectively nothing. This means the games population is absolutely in the gutter, as many of us predicted it would be.

What is so sad is that we had such high hopes for this game. And it's not like the changes to win back a ton of players would require a huge effort. It would just require pgi to swallow their pride and admit they made mistakes.

im still kind of mad i believed their lies at the launch event and put down the money for the full phoenix package haha. as to pgi admitting their mistakes? its more likely that {Godwin's Law} would rise from the grave and admit that he is 1/4 jewish. but what do i know, i have been on an island for the last couple years(and its gotten pretty crowded).

Edited by Hellcat420, 15 April 2014 - 05:27 PM.

[Thunder Lips Express]

Roadbeer, on 13 April 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

Except have the Great Houses of the Inner Sphere wage war on each other and the Clans.

You know.... like the game was advertised to have.

I don't recall Solaris 7 being one of the "Design Pillars" that we bought into.

Yep, I bought into this game when I read about what they planned to do with role warfare and community warfare, I have spent too much money, own every hero, legendary founder, overload Phoenix, sabre, lots of camos and colours, defended the game and the developers from "trolls" but had I known then what I suspect I know now I wouldn't have purchased Phoenix or became a founder.
Until we get a good version of community warfare I'll hold on to my cash.

[Hellcat420]

Ecliptor, on 15 April 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

Yep, I bought into this game when I read about what they planned to do with role warfare and community warfare, I have spent too much money, own every hero, legendary founder, overload Phoenix, sabre, lots of camos and colours, defended the game and the developers from "trolls" but had I known then what I suspect I know now I wouldn't have purchased Phoenix or became a founder.
Until we get a good version of community warfare I'll hold on to my cash.

welcome to the island

[Cattra Kell]

Psycho Farmer, on 15 April 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

You're communicating with Paul too much if you think any part of that picture isn't what many people think of the podcast.

I actually don't talk to Paul at all, svp. People will think what they think and once they make their mind on a decision good luck trying to change it.

[Peiper]

Psycho Farmer, on 15 April 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

You're communicating with Paul too much if you think any part of that picture isn't what many people think of the podcast.

Cattra Kell, on 15 April 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

I actually don't talk to Paul at all, svp. People will think what they think and once they make their mind on a decision good luck trying to change it.

I just want to reiterate a point I've made about NGNG that I've made in the past. Creating a podcast is a job, whether you get paid for it or not. When you're talking about products or people, you have to be responsible for what you say. Like any group of fans, who want to be in the know and help promote the game, they aren't going to constantly blast the game. Who wants to listen to an hour long episode of people complaining? They want to PROMOTE the game, and it's not possible to promote a game by just saying how things are imbalanced, all this or that needs improvement, etc... Also, if all they do is complain, why would PGI staff want to be on the show? They'll want to go on a show where the people aren't going to treat them like so many of us in the forums do.

NGNG guys ARE a bunch of fanboys. They admit it, and I'll tell you what: THEY SEE the problems with the game just like everyone else. The difference is, they CHOOSE to talk about and reinforce the GOOD things about the game. Considering all the griping I hear from my friends - and from my own mouth - is it so bad that people talk about the good things? Also, if you agreed with everything said on NGNG, what would there be to talk about? You gotta have something to argue about, right? Also, like it or not, NGNG is one of the best ways for communicating new content or discussing upcoming features, etc... VLOGs are just PSAs. Command chair posts are necessarily edited for wordiness and as a writer, I KNOW how difficult it is to write about technical and statistical sides of things and put it in a way for us non-programmers to understand.

I DO think that maybe PGI listens too much to the feedback of a select few if they actually do consider feedback from outside their company. (Either that, or they only listen to feedback when the FORUMS FREAK OUT! Or worse, they only listen to the feedback they agree with.) I'm pretty cynical when I think about PGI's decisions, but then again, I often believe I'm right and they are wrong. Whatever, and however they process the feedback seems inconsistent and illogical.

Cattra Kell is quite correct, for all the consternation it will cause. By the time PGI has announced it's doing something, it typically has already begun and they're committed. Example: UI 2.0 mechlab. No matter how bad it was, they couldn't go back without delaying UI 2.0 forever. 3rd person. Cool shot. ECM. All of these debacles would have been avoided if they'd surveyed and/or listened to the surveys to begin with - but once these PGI guys make up their mind, damn the torpedoes, bad reviews, anger and ragequits.

In the end NGNG chooses to roll with the punches. The rest of us jump around on the island and throw rocks and sticks. So, cut them some slack, huh?

Edited by Peiper, 15 April 2014 - 07:53 PM.

[Roadbeer]

I actually don't mind the MSNGNG podcasts, it's the things that Russ/Bryan say that drive me up the wall.

Just once though, I'd love it when Russ or Bryan takes a shit in the box and tries to sell how great it is, if they wouldn't go "Hey, that's an impressive shit" and say "dude, you just took a shit in a box"

[GoManGo]

Appogee (I enjoy listening to the NG:NG podcasts for the hard-hitting questions and investigation of matters of concern to the MWO playerbase. )

I have to ask what playerbase? does losing over 150,000 active players since closed beta mean there a good company?

This reminds me of PGI/IGP internal policy's regarding the community and anything forums users have to say.

How many Kuritans does it take to change a lightbulb?
Eight.

One to find out what wattage the Coordinator wants.
One to find out what wattage the Kanrei wants.
One to assist the first one in committing seppuku when the Coordinator comes around to the Kanrei's way of thinking.
One ISF agent to monitor the changeover for any seditious sentiments that might be expressed in the process.
One, hand-picked from the ranks of the Genyosha, to have the honor of changing the light bulb.
One from the 1st Sword of Light to challenge the Genyosha warrior to a duel for the right to change the light bulb.
Another assistant for a ritual suicide.
One to run the tea ceremony thanking everyone for keeping the casualties to two this time.

How many Lyrans does it take to change a light bulb?
Nine.

One to propose the use of an assault-class light bulb with as many heavy weapons as can be placed on it.
One to argue that the light bulb should have some recon elements and perhaps some combined arms support.
One Cincinnatus member to assassinate the second one for being a "Davionist spy."
Three social generals to spend four months politicking over who gets to command the operation to change the light bulb.
One Archon to give the contract to the Kell Hounds, just so it will get done.
One Kell Hounds member to actually change the light bulb, but not without an awkward sequence where the socket doesn't show up on scanners for a moment.
One Skye noble to wonder loudly just what kind of light bulb requires weapons and armor and to threaten to secede.

How many Capellans does it take to change a light bulb?
Four.

One to plant a double in the Federated Suns' Ministry of Changing Light Bulbs (Internal Division) to find out how the FedRats do it.
One to point out that the FedSuns has been very efficient when it comes to changing light bulbs and that perhaps the CapCon should try it that way once, after making sure that the new bulbs won't blow up when exposed to an obscure gas.
One to argue that whatever success the Davions have in changing light bulbs must be despite, rather than because of, their decadent practices and that the Capellans should find out how the ancient Han changed light bulbs and do it that way. XIN SHENG!
One Maskirovka agent to kill both of the preceding for implying that the Capellan Confederation's current ability to change light bulbs is anything but satisfactory.

How many FedSunners does it take to change a light bulb?
Six.

One to marry another house's heir-presumptive in order to announce the change at the wedding, because just doing it wouldn't be flashy enough.
One to come up with the most complex acronym possible for the new light bulb changing division.
One to volunteer to have his hand cut off and be exiled after a show trial in order to infiltrate another house's light bulb changing organization and sabotage it from the inside, because again, easy is no fun.
One to ineffectually sell out the secrets of the light bulb change to the Capellans, just so that the Davions can go, "See? We have black hats too!"
One to replace the dead light bulb with a Star-League era fluorescent bulb made at the NAIS using information extracted from the Helm Memory Core and single-handedly fight off the ComStar force sent to destroy the bulb.
One to roll their eyes at the other houses and their antiquated, restrictive and overly-complex methods for changing light bulbs.

How many Free Worlders does it take to change a light bulb?
Seven.

One to bring up the issue of the light bulb change in Parliament.
One to block the move to change the light bulb in order to wring a concession out of the Captain-General.
One random Shilohan to remind people that light bulbs are technology and therefore evil.
One MP to propose that a committee be formed to discuss possible options for forming a light bulb task force to recon the dead bulb.
One MP to chastise the previous MP for trying to ram the measure through Parliament so quickly and without at least having a preplanning committee first.
One to thow up his hands in disgust, cross the border and change the light bulb without orders.
One Blakist to smash the light bulb because the FWL was in danger of getting a chance to actually do something.

Read more: http://www.f8l.co/to...x#ixzz2z1NpVmYh

P.S and after 3 years I still cannot group with my friends to play, practice and have fun. Im sorry but MWO is a joke of a company.

Edited by GoManGo, 15 April 2014 - 08:46 PM.