116 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Already knew you could buy hero mechs and sell them and the engines back so nothing has changed carry on.

[Aluminumfoiled]

Deathlike, on 15 April 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

No, it's more like the classical response to "do you play your own game?" type of deal.

You won me over with this post. Price is so high no P2W involved and an expensive grind reduction if pilots are willing to pay it.

But from a new player view needing DHS, endo and XL you have a point. Earnings, required cbills earnings to advance, have slowed a lot. Do you play your own game. I want new players retained.

[Kyrie]

Although I am not currently playing the game, I have no objections to C-Bills for MC. My objections, as a rule, have been more towards "give me a game I want to spend money on" side of things.

The potential P2W issue will be seen in CW, if it ever materializes -- what exactly merc units will be able to purchase to gain power on the map?

[Rashhaverak]

I think that whenever someone claims pay to win for something that clearly isn't, a baby dies.

[Zerberus]

Iqfish, on 15 April 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

You won the price for the most senseless post of the day.
Where should we ship it?

Pjwned, on 15 April 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

The game was already pay2win with premium time and mech bays, not really seeing how this is much different.

Suddenly, a new challenger arrives....

[KAT Ayanami]

The problem is not the F2P model that MWO has.

The problem is the PRICE of the items!!! $30 for a single mech that only has different color, name and a couple of hard points? Are you crazy?

[Pyrrho]

KAT Ayanami, on 15 April 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

The problem is the PRICE of the items!!! $30 for a single mech that only has different color, name and a couple of hard points? Are you crazy?

They sell, so... they [PGI marketers] are not crazy.

[MechFrog1]

This fits perfectly with the pattern of ripping something out of the game and then selling it back to the players as if they're doing the fans a favor.

1. Lower C-Bill rewards so that new players are continually mired in poverty
2. Offer c-bill packs for MC. Look at this cool new 'feature!'

Edit: I'd support the idea if we could convert c-bills back to MC and from MC to dollars. I have 280 million c-bills I'm not using and would like to pay half my mortgage bill with it.

Edited by mint frog, 15 April 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[Mawai]

I have no idea where someone gets pay 2 win from buying cbills with MC.

You can play games, earn cbills and afford whatever you want ... it just takes time.

Incidentally by playing games you also learn how to play AND earn mech xp that improves your skill with the specific mech and general xp that unlocks modules and other benefits.

So, honestly, buying cbills for MC is somewhat pay 2 lose since you don't get the experience playing and you don't earn XP for efficiencies and unlocks.

If buying cbills earned you something that another player did not have access to without also spending money then it would be pay 2 win. Paying money to spend less time grinding is the fundamental principle underlying almost all free to play games. It is supposed to be painful to obtain new items without spending real money. Painful but possible.

I think the addition of spending MC for Cbills is the response to folks who were complaining that it was not possible to use MC to buy other expensive items like modules and engines. This just allows those folks with deep pockets to further reduce the grind.

[MechFrog1]

Mawai, on 15 April 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

I have no idea where someone gets pay 2 win from buying cbills with MC.

You can play games, earn cbills and afford whatever you want ... it just takes time.

Incidentally by playing games you also learn how to play AND earn mech xp that improves your skill with the specific mech and general xp that unlocks modules and other benefits.

So, honestly, buying cbills for MC is somewhat pay 2 lose since you don't get the experience playing and you don't earn XP for efficiencies and unlocks.

If buying cbills earned you something that another player did not have access to without also spending money then it would be pay 2 win. Paying money to spend less time grinding is the fundamental principle underlying almost all free to play games. It is supposed to be painful to obtain new items without spending real money. Painful but possible.

I think the addition of spending MC for Cbills is the response to folks who were complaining that it was not possible to use MC to buy other expensive items like modules and engines. This just allows those folks with deep pockets to further reduce the grind.

It's not pay to win so much as a clear exploitation of new players who don't know any better. Taking advantage of these new players will not turn them into long-term customers.

[RG Notch]

mint frog, on 15 April 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

It's not pay to win so much as a clear exploitation of new players who don't know any better. Taking advantage of these new players will not turn them into long-term customers.

That assumes you have plans long term. PGI/IGP seems to only think short term cash grabbery. Long term thinking doesn't seem their strong point.

[Roadbeer]

RG Notch, on 15 April 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

That assumes you have plans long term. PGI/IGP seems to only think short term cash grabbery. Long term thinking doesn't seem their strong point.

It's usually in 90 day cycles.

[RayBotiiC]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 15 April 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

This has nothing to do with P2W. It has everything to do with Pay for Convenience, the best form of Free to Play monetization.

The only concern I have is with pricing, and without doing some math I'm not willing to comment. I assume that the bundle pricing is mapped to mech prices, with mech-for-mc being more efficient but c-bill-for-mc being better than buying a mech with mc just to sell for the c-bills.

Definitely not all the math but just taking the JR7-F(C) as an example since it was already mentioned...

JR7-F(C): 3,067,911 C-Bills for 1450 MC which gets you 2115 C-Bills per MC
Small C-Bill Bundle: 1,100,000 C-Bills for 800 MC which gets you 1375 C-Bills per MC
Medium C-Bills Bundle: 2,400,000 C-Bills for 1600 MC which gets you 1500 C-Bills per MC
Large C-Bills Bundle: 6,500,000 C-Bills for 4000 MC which gets you 1625 C-Bills per MC

[RayBotiiC]

MisterPlanetarian, on 15 April 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

They are kinda supposed to be, otherwise whats the point of premium time unless you play 24/7? This is mainly to discourage mech buying and selling for cbills.

Why would it discourage it except in the case on newer players or folks who have not already explored the MC for Mech for C-Bill conversion options. All of these package net less C-Bills per MC than buying the JR7-F(C) and immediately selling it for C-Bills. Heck you could buy a mech bay with the C-Bills from the JR7-F(C) sell and still be more C-Bills per MC than any of the 3 C-Bill bundles.

[Tezcatli]

My only complaint is that they nerfed C-Bill gain and never did anything to balance it back. And now you can buy C-bills directly. Essentially indirect extortion that new players don't even realize is happening.

But I don't really find it Pay to Win. Pay To Win is anything that gives you an advantage that can only be bought with MC. If they started offering ER medium lasers for only MC. Or Clan Gauss weaponry for only MC. That would be Pay to Win. Anyone that says Premium or buying C-bills is P2W. Just doesn't understand how a Free to Play game does business.

It's not as bad as other free to play games that force you to grind to exchange massive amounts of in-game currency for small amounts real money currency to purchase stronger equipment.

[iamunkle]

are you FREAKIN SERIOUS?


wow.


bunch of douche's
for what reason?!?! honestly?? give one good reason

pgi ur fekd.

greedy muppets





ill leave it at that.
cbf playing anymore..



you make me sad pgi

[Rex Budman]

Definitely not P2W, and the deals ARE bad.

It only takes a bit of grinding to get the weapon set you want anyway. This only saves you the time. P2W would be MC only weapons that are much better than C-Bill ones, as a hypothetical.

[ShinVector]

LauLiao, on 15 April 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

I think this has more to do with the upcoming CW and the 20 million per person (or whatever the number they gave was) C-Bill requirement to buy a dropship to start a Merc corp.

I believe 200mil cbills ++... I am another person doesn't care. Seating on enough cbills to buy nearly 3 drop ships.

[iamunkle]

*puts extra 65$ into Star Citizen out of spite*

[Kinski Orlawisch]

I have no Problem with these deals. I just make my C bills fast enough that I don t care about the deals. You need to play for achievments. When they would increase the ammount and there would bee stuff I realy need...Why not changing MCs to Cbills? But with that Ratio? Sorry. ....How much MC would it cost to get 250mios? Lol...Better Play.