40 replies to this topic

[Lucian Nostra]

So I was musing today about how comp play currently runs in MWO and how the Clans will work and I started to worry

Clans with the current line-up lack a jump capable assault mech. This might of been fine if we weren't moving to a 3/3/3/3 format where we could of gotten Summoner happy and pop-tarted the crap out of the enemy like they do us, but we will need bring a combination of Direwolves and Warhawks (which are awesome mechs but don't currently fit the meta)

They also lack something like the Jenner F which far better suits the role of a fast harasser while being able to pull anti-light duty well. The Adder will carry decent firepower but it will be slow unable to escape Jenners or quick mediums. They also lack jump jets limiting their movement options.

We're always finding out that clan Ultras will have a burst fire mechanic (possibly LBX as well) so they will not fit into the FLD meta that currently rules the game instead being more DPS oriented.

LRMs (while not being meta favored) will still be far worse on the clan side as a stream of LRMs will be absolutely gobbled by AMS as we currently see whenever anyone chain fires LRM 5s. AMS is far to strong against that sort of missile fire.

I see the clans being decent in PUG and casual play, but Clan vs IS in a competitive format seems very shakey.

edit: one thing I forgot is will clan burst fire ACs receive a lower CD to compensate for the fact that the burst takes time to get off. Our only reference to something like this so far is the Gauss with it's charge that received no reduction on cooldown to comp it for the reduced DPS due to charging

[Chemie]

so they lose JJ and gain 30 more pin point damage (on an assault)....seems obvious choice given the meta

[FupDup]

I for one welcome our new Trueborn overlords cannon fodder.

[Davers]

So the Clans will favor a different playstyle compared to IS? THAT IS CRAZY TALK!

[Deathlike]

2 Clan ERPPC + 1 Clan Gauss on the Thor?

Everything else is irrelevant after that.

[ICEFANG13]

I think its too soon to say what the balance will be, however, assuming that its balanced, as indicated verbally, then there should be nothing to fear, assuming its balanced based on the track record, I would give up on worrying about it anyway.

[Davers]

ICEFANG13, on 27 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

I think its too soon to say what the balance will be, however, assuming that its balanced, as indicated verbally, then there should be nothing to fear, assuming its balanced based on the track record, I would give up on worrying about it anyway.

So it's so imbalanced that it is balanced? Man...what if C A T spelled dog?

[darkkterror]

I'm more concerned about Clan light mechs and not being able to upgrade engines.

[Davers]

darkkterror, on 27 April 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

I'm more concerned about Clan light mechs and not being able to upgrade engines.

Think of the firepower!!! Let those IS light mechs run and die tired!

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 27 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

2 Clan ERPPC + 1 Clan Gauss on the Thor?

Everything else is irrelevant after that.

Bro, do you even pod space?

The stock Thor has 22.5 tons to play with. Clan ERPPC is 6 tons. 2 of them is 12 tons. Clan Gauss is 12 tons. 12 + 12 = 24 tons. Oh, and you don't even get ammo, and you only have 14 DHS to handle the 2 ERPPCs. Have fun!

Oh, and for even more fun, the stock Thor has literally the same armor as a 55 ton medium. You'd have to spend some of your already sub-par pod space on armor.

Edited by FupDup, 27 April 2014 - 04:37 PM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 27 April 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

Bro, do you even pod space?

The stock Thor has 22.5 tons to play with. Clan ERPPC is 6 tons. 2 of them is 12 tons. Clan Gauss is 12 tons. 12 + 12 = 24 tons. Oh, and you don't even get ammo, and you only have 14 DHS to handle the 2 ERPPCs. Have fun!

Oh, and for even more fun, the stock Thor has literally the same armor as a 55 ton medium. You'd have to spend some of your already sub-par pod space on armor unless you enjoy constantly dying a painful death.

Why did you crush my hope and dreams?

Fine, UAC20 + whatever energy tonnage is left, like maybe 2 Clan ERLarge however many Clan ER meds you can stuff on it.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 April 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Chemie, on 27 April 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

so they lose JJ and gain 30 more pin point damage (on an assault)....seems obvious choice given the meta

On slow assault mechs with low slung arms, they will fight much like Atlases do currently. A good mech but not one that works in comp play outside the DDC and it's ECM (something we have no reason to believe will show up on the hawk or wolf) I believe both will be strong is regular play but in Comp play dominated by pop tarts I don't see a Direwolf moving 53kph after tweak will offer a lot..

Davers, on 27 April 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

So the Clans will favor a different playstyle compared to IS? THAT IS CRAZY TALK!

Different playstyle would be nice but will it compete with what currently rules the game? Poptarting FLD?

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 27 April 2014 - 04:43 PM.

[Davers]

Lucian Nostra, on 27 April 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

On slow assault mechs with low slung arms, they will fight much like Atlases do currently. A good mech but not one that works in comp play outside the DDC and it's ECM (something we have no reason to believe will show up on the hawk or wolf) I believe both will be strong is regular play but in Comp play dominated by pop tarts I don't see a Direwolf moving 53kph after tweak will offer a lot..



Different playstyle would be nice but will it compete with what currently rules the game? Poptarting FLD?

Clans will have no shortage of FLD.

The first 8 IS mechs only had two JJ mechs Jenners and Catapults. But now we have plenty. Clans will be the same.

[DocBach]

The Gladiator/Executioner will jump snipe just fine

[Bobzilla]

Clans will be slower and do spread damage (i'll bet clan ppc will spread too). In theory smaller amounts of pinpoint vs larger amounts of spread damage could work (current IS vs lighter clan).

I hope clan mechs are really agile, and they don't make their weapons too hot and don't go nuts with ghost heat.

I'll take a guess and say clan mechs will not be able to carry more weapons than the current IS ones effectively (due to heat and fixed equipment), and will be kinda fail at first.

I do hope they are different, but balanced. They should be able to do it.

[Lucian Nostra]

Davers, on 27 April 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Clans will have no shortage of FLD.

The first 8 IS mechs only had two JJ mechs Jenners and Catapults. But now we have plenty. Clans will be the same.

While this is true the meta wasn't poptart way back than, it was heavily focused on brawling. Splat Cats, high speed Hunchies with 9 SPLs, Atlases with MLs, Ac20 and SRM6s. It was a veeery different scene so the lack of jump capable mechs didn't matter.

DocBach, on 27 April 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

The Gladiator/Executioner will jump snipe just fine

Yes when it comes it out it'll fit in well, but we're talking most likely January of 2015 at the earliest

[Craig Steele]

Lucian Nostra, on 27 April 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

So I was musing today about how comp play currently runs in MWO and how the Clans will work and I started to worry

Clans with the current line-up lack a jump capable assault mech. This might of been fine if we weren't moving to a 3/3/3/3 format where we could of gotten Summoner happy and pop-tarted the crap out of the enemy like they do us, but we will need bring a combination of Direwolves and Warhawks (which are awesome mechs but don't currently fit the meta)

They also lack something like the Jenner F which far better suits the role of a fast harasser while being able to pull anti-light duty well. The Adder will carry decent firepower but it will be slow unable to escape Jenners or quick mediums. They also lack jump jets limiting their movement options.

We're always finding out that clan Ultras will have a burst fire mechanic (possibly LBX as well) so they will not fit into the FLD meta that currently rules the game instead being more DPS oriented.

LRMs (while not being meta favored) will still be far worse on the clan side as a stream of LRMs will be absolutely gobbled by AMS as we currently see whenever anyone chain fires LRM 5s. AMS is far to strong against that sort of missile fire.

I see the clans being decent in PUG and casual play, but Clan vs IS in a competitive format seems very shakey.

edit: one thing I forgot is will clan burst fire ACs receive a lower CD to compensate for the fact that the burst takes time to get off. Our only reference to something like this so far is the Gauss with it's charge that received no reduction on cooldown to comp it for the reduced DPS due to charging

Isn't this kind of the most obvious thing ever?

In Competitive play, it's about min maxing, mitigating weaknesses with maximum advantageous builds.

Clan mechs will be less min max exercises, generally slower and generally less efficient with technology.

There's a couple of mechs that buck this trend, but certainly not all of them. So why would a competitive player take a chassis that is not optimised?

[Firelizard]

Daishi-C

Jump jets -and- ECM.

The forum rage will be visible from orbit, quiaff?

[Hillslam]

aw

[Mcgral18]

Hillslam, on 27 April 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

aw

Depending on the amount of nerfs, even competitive might be asking too much.

Will the lasers have a 1.2 second burn time? Or a full 1.5-2 second? There's a difference between OP and DoA.

They already have a FLD deficiency, which might be made up for by sheer firepower, but that also depends on jam chance.

They've stated we'll be able to reallocate armor...but does that mean we can add to the max of that weight class, or just frontload as we see fit?