156 replies to this topic

[poopenshire]

I am soooo proud to see that people are speaking up here about the constant whining.

buck up people, pull up your big boy pants and play the game.

YOU WILL NOT WIN THEM ALL!

PGI is doing what they feel is best for everyone, and I have faith in it. When I lose, I try harder. When I win, I try to replicate that success. PGI will still receive my money month after month. I bought my Clan pack and will buy more. I am having fun win or lose.

[Captain Stiffy]

I see lists like the one the OP made and I can't help but wonder if there are threads made by real military soldiers like "The M-16 is CRAP!" "NERF THE SOCOM!" "IEDS ARE OP".

[Viges]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Throw a test build with a 30 heat cap and double dissipation, just SEE how it works.

Still 2x(ppc+ac5)or full ballistics etc?

You can do the math without a test server (with less fun though), I don't see what would change. Ghost heat is a heat cap mechanics, its just an ugly one

[AlmightyAeng]

Viges, on 17 April 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

Still 2x(ppc+ac5)or full ballistics etc?

You can do the math without a test server (with less fun though), I don't see what would change. Ghost heat is a heat cap mechanics, its just an ugly one

A heat cap of 30 is far lower than the artificial cap we're currently capable of, using double heatsinks and the way PGI coded them.

Alphawarrior would see a LOT more individually fired groups. At least, that's the prediction, and what a number of people have been begging PGI to look at.

It'd also frustrate the hell out of the CoD crowd.

[Mcgral18]

Ghost Badger, on 17 April 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

A heat cap of 30 is far lower than the artificial cap we're currently capable of, using double heatsinks and the way PGI coded them.

Alphawarrior would see a LOT more individually fired groups. At least, that's the prediction, and what a number of people have been begging PGI to look at.

It'd also frustrate the hell out of the CoD crowd.

You'd have to add in dynamic heat for JJs as well. If we did that, and fired 2 PPCs you would likely overheat.

Of course that leaves dual gauss+ a single PPC. That one is hard to balance with current mechanics.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 17 April 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

You'd have to add in dynamic heat for JJs as well. If we did that, and fired 2 PPCs you would likely overheat.

Of course that leaves dual gauss+ a single PPC. That one is hard to balance with current mechanics.

charge up mechanism is enough to keep that somewhat controlled. Most meta abusers look for the path of least resistance, which whether they want to hear it or not, translate to highest reward for lowest skill investment. Gauss are not that.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

Gauss are not that.

Which is technically not saying Gauss are bad - but rather they take more skill than most are willing to give them.

[Rex Budman]

Ghost Badger, on 17 April 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

First off, it wasn't in a perfect environment. The whole point was that it was in practically the LEAST ideal environment.

I only have 49 matches since the stat reset, but that's my standard Firebrand build. Will I do 1500+ damage every match? Of course not. But frankly my overall stats in that build are relatively good. For reference, I call any mech with over 50 games under its belt and a K/D and W/L ratio both over 2.00 as "good." You can feel free to disagree. That's my frame of reference.

I took this 'mech out EXCLUSIVELY during the last tournament when LRM's were still so damned fast. The game previous to the 1519 match was a game with 5 kills, 5 assists and 950+ damage. So, yes, I'd say that the results are pretty consistent, with a 2.50 W/L ratio, a 2.14 K/D ratio (climbed out of an embarassing 1.74 since the LRM tournament weekend) and 440 damage per match.

I'm expecting it to settle around a 3.5-4.0 K/D ratio, if previous stats are any indication. Anything else Rex?

Edit: Or am I expected to kit out each of my Jagers with a different kind of build/meta, run them all the same number of games and then compare all the stats. Because if that onus is on me, it's on you, too.

Indeed the onus is on you because I'm not the one making the claim, dude.

And you can say it was or wasn't the perfect environment but the fact of the matter is a better indication of the mechs worth will be indicated over a series of matches with the same pilot, and even then it is not a perfect indication, just better.

crossflip, on 17 April 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

What I'm trying to say is, yes, you're right, we as a community do complain excessively and unnecessarily, but I still think we deserve a game where every role is more or less rewarded. As far as I'm concerned there's not much that's OP or UP, but some things are less fun to use than others for different reasons. It's good to look at these things in terms of fun. This is a game, after all. Btw flamers are fun, idc if they're useless bcos they look beastly

And this is the brunt of it all; the roles are offered, the players play here based on those roles offered, so a single one cannot and should not be ruled out. I agree with you completely because this is a Video Game, not a battlefield.

Mazzyplz, on 17 April 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

what should i salute you or some crap? provide a better argument or deal with it.

what is a marine anyhow, a pawn? i'm talking higher ups here, you probably didn't make it very far to know how strategy works; you pick what your forces are taking

you upgrade your armament to compete or just plain retire underperforming weaponry, that's how it works.

Oh Mazzy come on mate... Honestly, I mean what are you trying to prove here...?

[Viges]

Ghost Badger, on 17 April 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

A heat cap of 30 is far lower than the artificial cap we're currently capable of, using double heatsinks and the way PGI coded them.

Alphawarrior would see a LOT more individually fired groups. At least, that's the prediction, and what a number of people have been begging PGI to look at.

It'd also frustrate the hell out of the CoD crowd.

I dont really understand what you want to achieve with that.

This change wont make ppc/ballistic combo less usefull, I'm pretty sure that quite the opposite. It wont make JJ less usefull again. Why would it?

2ppc+2ac5=22heat, with double dissipation and 10 (!) dhs (2*10*0.2=4) you can fire this s*** every 5-6 secs - almost on cooldown NONSTOP. With more dhs just every 3-4 sec - anything else will become obsolete.

[Mcgral18]

Viges, on 17 April 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

I dont really understand what you want to achieve with that.

This change wont make ppc/ballistic combo less usefull, I'm pretty sure that quite the opposite. It wont make JJ less usefull again. Why would it?

2ppc+2ac5=22heat, with double dissipation and 10 (!) dhs (2*10*0.2=4) you can fire this s*** every 5-6 secs - almost on cooldown NONSTOP. With more dhs just every 3-4 sec - anything else will become obsolete.

If JJs produced heat, you would shutdown while jumping, costing you quite a few seconds.

The biggest advantage would be energy weapons no longer being gimped. Sure, the dakka builds could fire more often, but so could energy. You could actually effectively use a boat for more than 2 alphas, or 10 seconds.

[YueFei]

Viges, on 17 April 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

I dont really understand what you want to achieve with that.

This change wont make ppc/ballistic combo less usefull, I'm pretty sure that quite the opposite. It wont make JJ less usefull again. Why would it?

2ppc+2ac5=22heat, with double dissipation and 10 (!) dhs (2*10*0.2=4) you can fire this s*** every 5-6 secs - almost on cooldown NONSTOP. With more dhs just every 3-4 sec - anything else will become obsolete.

You've flubbed the math a bit there. 10 DHS dissipates 20 heat over 10 seconds. That's 2 heat per second. In 6 seconds it'll dissipate 12 heat, which is the heat from 1 PPC and 2 AC5. Not enough to be heat neutral for 2 PPC and 2 AC5. With the ambient heat from the environment, plus heat from movement, firing all of that non-stop would cause a shutdown on the 2nd salvo of PPCs.

Assuming a map where the environment is heat neutral and you're not moving at all:

0 seconds : 22 heat (10 + 10 + 1 + 1)
1 second: 20 heat (-2)
1.5 seconds: 21 heat (1 + 1 - 1)
2 seconds: 20 heat (-1)
3 seconds: 20 heat (1 + 1 - 2)
4 seconds: 38 heat, instant shutdown.

With frightening enough heat penalties (like ammo cooking off), even back-to-back alpha strikes would be a big gamble.

A low-capacity, high dissipation system would totally work to neutralize (not neuter) 2xPPC + ballistics. The exact value of the heat capacity might need to be tweaked. Hell, it could be tweaked on a per-chassis and per-variant basis as another way to tune balance between chassis and variants.

If 30 isn't low enough to prevent massive burst damage, lower it a bit more until that goal is achieved.

Unless, of course, reducing massive burst damage isn't the goal, in which case, carry on.

Edited by YueFei, 17 April 2014 - 11:03 PM.

[meteorol]

Wow, i have never seen a epeen stroke thread having so much balance discussion.
Nice work putting your anti-rant rant first, guys were already in "OMG BALANCE" mode before they even saw the stroke.
Otherwise we would have a thread full of "brag time again" and "been there, done that" posts.

[Rex Budman]

Captain Stiffy, on 17 April 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

I see lists like the one the OP made and I can't help but wonder if there are threads made by real military soldiers like "The M-16 is CRAP!" "NERF THE SOCOM!" "IEDS ARE OP".

Oh jesus... THIS - IS - NOT - A - REAL - BATTLEFIELD - THIS - IS - A - VIDEO - GAME

[johnyboy420]

Just reading this thread makes me feel a lot dumber you kids just dont even have a clue do you?!?!?!?!

[Captain Stiffy]

Rex Budman, on 17 April 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

Oh jesus... THIS - IS - NOT - A - REAL - BATTLEFIELD - THIS - IS - A - VIDEO - GAME

What's a "video game"?

[AlmightyAeng]

meteorol, on 17 April 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

Wow, i have never seen a epeen stroke thread having so much balance discussion.
Nice work putting your anti-rant rant first, guys were already in "OMG BALANCE" mode before they even saw the stroke.
Otherwise we would have a thread full of "brag time again" and "been there, done that" posts.

I know...I figured I'd be revolutionary and sneak it in

Rex Budman, on 17 April 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Indeed the onus is on you because I'm not the one making the claim, dude.

And you can say it was or wasn't the perfect environment but the fact of the matter is a better indication of the mechs worth will be indicated over a series of matches with the same pilot, and even then it is not a perfect indication, just better.



And this is the brunt of it all; the roles are offered, the players play here based on those roles offered, so a single one cannot and should not be ruled out. I agree with you completely because this is a Video Game, not a battlefield.



Oh Mazzy come on mate... Honestly, I mean what are you trying to prove here...?

I liked your post for your responses to the second two quotes.

As to your reply to mine...you realize that the argument I'm currently making with those examples are "Weapons/styles are pretty damned close to balanced (minus bad hit detection on SRM's and no reason to take pulse lasers)...close enough that in the face of other overwhelming odds/factors skill managed to even things out and pull a win." You realize that, right?

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Ghost Badger, on 17 April 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

blah blah blah

I got 800 damage, multiple kills and assists, and got top damage on my team that won on alpine in a 2 LPL 6 MG jager DD. I also was queued solo so I didn't have teammates to carry me. It's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time with the right tools. Also Alpine was made for long range weapons, which AC/5s are definitely. 2 AC/5s in a mid-long covering fire scenario will easily pad your damage a lot and then you mop up the leftovers with the MLs during the brawl. 1500, though, is still fairly unusual though in my experience. I once had a game with 1200+ damage in a 4 PPC stalker (fired 2 at a time) on caustic so strange things can happen lol.

Speaking of which, why is my jager DD's stats so good?? I exclusively run 300 std and 2 LPL 6 MGs (as a joke at first) and it is probly one of my best mechs now:
JAGERMECH JM6-DD 23 15 8 1.88 41 9 4.56 9,477 45,442 02:26:38
That's a 4.56 k/d playing exclusively PUG/ 2man

Edited by Tw1stedMonkey, 18 April 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 18 April 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

I got 800 damage, multiple kills and assists, and got top damage on my team that won on alpine in a 2 LPL 6 MG jager DD. I also was queued solo so I didn't have teammates to carry me. It's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time with the right tools. Also Alpine was made for long range weapons, which AC/5s are definitely. 2 AC/5s in a mid-long covering fire scenario will easily pad your damage a lot and then you mop up the leftovers with the MLs during the brawl. 1500, though, is still fairly unusual though in my experience. I once had a game with 1200+ damage in a 4 PPC stalker (fired 2 at a time) on caustic so strange things can happen lol.

Speaking of which, why is my jager DD's stats so good?? I exclusively run 300 std and 2 LPL 6 MGs (as a joke at first) and it is probly one of my best mechs now:
JAGERMECH JM6-DD 23 15 8 1.88 41 9 4.56 9,477 45,442 02:26:38
That's a 4.56 k/d playing exclusively PUG/ 2man

I am amused that you 'liked' the post in here discussing how a smaller heatcap and higher dissipation could be a good thing, but not the original post, and then post an 'epeen' story without a picture, with half the damage of the pic in the OP.

If you're gonna stroke, stroke with a purpose! What does your epeen say about balance?

Edited by Ghost Badger, 18 April 2014 - 06:01 AM.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Ghost Badger, on 18 April 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

I am amused that you 'liked' the post in here discussing how a smaller heatcap and higher dissipation could be a good thing, but not the original post, and then post an 'epeen' story without a picture, with half the damage of the pic in the OP.

If you're gonna stroke, stroke with a purpose! What does your epeen say about balance?

800 damage in a, 0 damage outside of 700m, brawler on alpine is just as impressive to me than one that does 1500 while including dual ACs lol. Also I play the game on multiple computers, I can't find the screenshot on this one but here is one of my stats screen if that helps you.
https://onedrive.liv...nt=photo%2c.jpg

Edited by Tw1stedMonkey, 18 April 2014 - 06:18 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 18 April 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

800 damage in a, 0 damage outside of 700m, brawler on alpine is just as impressive to me than one that does 1500 while including dual ACs lol. Also I play the game on multiple computers, I can't find the screenshot on this one but here is one of my stats screen if that helps you.
https://onedrive.liv...nt=photo%2c.jpg

I'm sorry, you missed my point. I don't care about the picture. Can you apply the experience to some of the conversations in this thread? Namely regarding game balance, or player skill vs. uncontrolled factors?

Nice game, btw.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 18 April 2014 - 06:24 AM.