156 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

You are telling a retired Infantry Marine how its done???
Really?

And the Germans loved open ground in their Tanks while the Allies ruled the skies. This guys knows stuff Joe...

[Mystere]

Ghost Badger, on 17 April 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

Half the people on these forums would be screaming about how unfair it is. Instead, me and my 2 guys bucked up and carried hard. Go Kell Hounds.

So please, everyone, stop with the hyperbolic whining. It's tiresome.

Now that's the spirit worth emulating!

Ghost Badger, on 17 April 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

epeen stroking because this was my best game ever so let me have my moment

Pfft! I did much better than that, in a Pretty baby no less!



<Well, you did set yourself up for it. >

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Trauglodyte, on 17 April 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Back to Badger's point, enjoy the game and don't worry so much about what is and isn't broke

See here is a funny point.

I could by the same token say "Enjoy the game, and don't worry about what people post on the boards".

Which is basically what started this whole thread.

Posting isn't always about enjoying or not enjoying the game. Sometimes it's about attempting to make the game better.

My time on the boards doesn't really effect my enjoyment. (My own sucking, like last night effects my enjoyment)

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 17 April 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Actually that's revisionist history. Smith and Tinker made MW:O.

PGI inheritted it, and then squandered it.

The base of the game is great, it's all the stuff PGI has done that has mucked it up.

Haven't you wondered how they could be so incompetant, yet certain things work so well?



Not really.

Meta is very simply, put as much pinpoint FLD damage as you can into a mech.

This normally means multiple AC's and PPC's.

There are variations on the meta, PopTarts being the most known/popular. 4 PPC Stalkers before Ghost Heat were another.

As you build a mech, basically ultimate Meta right now is a pair of AC/5's (or UAC5's) and a pair of PPC's with Jump Jets, then there is a sliding scale. As you move down the scale, it requires more and more skill to be competitive.

So for instance.

2x AC/5 2x PPC + JJ
3x AC/5 2x PPC

Would be pure meta.

2x AC/5 1x ER LL (A common SHD build)
2x AC/5 2x LL (The build earlier)

Is a deviation on the Meta. Less FLD, and has to face the target longer to put damage in (Lasers)

4x AC/5
2x AC/5 2x AC/2

Also a deviation on the Meta, but has drawbacks of less FLD, facing target, and pure ammo. Less heat though and more DAKKA.

After that you have non-meta boats (Lasers/SRMs/LRMs).

And then you have Franken-mechs.

The most popular Franken-mech is of course the SHD-2D2 with the AC/5 2x MLas and 4 SSRM2's.

So we should blame Smith and Tinker then. If they laid the foundation, from which all would come after. Damn, everyone has been QQ'ing the wrong crew.

Imagine you took over the construction of a 30 story building, it is 6 stories in and your tenants all showed up one day and demanded you turn the building 30 degrees to better utilize the Summer Solstice sunshine. What would you tell them? And if they cried about ti and said they won't buy space if you don't rotate it, what option does that leave you and your company?

[Trauglodyte]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

See here is a funny point.

I could by the same token say "Enjoy the game, and don't worry about what people post on the boards".

Which is basically what started this whole thread.

Posting isn't always about enjoying or not enjoying the game. Sometimes it's about attempting to make the game better.

My time on the boards doesn't really effect my enjoyment. (My own sucking, like last night effects my enjoyment)

You will do what I say when I say cause I say it - THE END!!!

Seriously though, the whole point of that is there are things in the game that just don't work right or work too well. We all know that. But, the kicker is boiling down what is and isn't working without the bias. How many "OMG, LRMZ ARE KILLING ME" threads did we have the day after the patch? How many of those threads ended up being the result of stupid game play and/or the lack of appropriate counters? I freaking HATE Canyon Networks because every match ends up with my dying and probably losing because I do the stupid thing of following the heard when I'm solo and we end up fighting at the elbow which is a HORRIBLE position. But, I recognize this and don't come to the boards to ***** about how bad of a map it is (it is a horrible map, btw, but not for that reason).

The point that I was making is that we can and should discuss issues that are, in fact, issues. It is the rest of the stuff that is a waste. I'm all for venting cause of something stupid - we all need to do that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

My time on the boards doesn't really effect my enjoyment. (My own sucking, like last night effects my enjoyment)

At least you looked in the mirror and and manned up!

[AlmightyAeng]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

See here is a funny point.

I could by the same token say "Enjoy the game, and don't worry about what people post on the boards".

Which is basically what started this whole thread.

Posting isn't always about enjoying or not enjoying the game. Sometimes it's about attempting to make the game better.

My time on the boards doesn't really effect my enjoyment. (My own sucking, like last night effects my enjoyment)

Fair. Okay, let's summarize my first post:

"Enjoy the game in whatever style you desire. If you choose to add to the discussion on the forums, please make your contribution intelligent, and base it on more than the fact that you got your ass handed to you.

'Like' the post with the picture of my epic game last night, because it was awesome.

Please use this thread to discuss balance as it relates to weapon meta, tonnage imbalance and map placement and whether or not those things, at this point in time, really have as much of an effect when compared to player skill as the hyperbolic posts on the forums seem to think they do."

Edited by Ghost Badger, 17 April 2014 - 11:02 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Almond Brown, on 17 April 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

So we should blame Smith and Tinker then. If they laid the foundation, from which all would come after. Damn, everyone has been QQ'ing the wrong crew.

To an extent, I do blame Smith and Tinker for certain aspects of the game.

But in the end, they got a lot of the major things right. Most especially the ability to have mechs with multiple hit boxes. I've never been in a game where they've had that level of proper detail.

But in actuality, the major flubs have been PGI.

The heat system should have been changed in closed beta. MANY Beta Testers recommended it.

PGI would not have had to add Ghost Heat, another thing most everyone thinks is terrible for the game.

In fact, witha proper heat system, the "meta" issues we've seen crop up would not have existed either.

And I could go on and on with things that PGI ignored.

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

At least you looked in the mirror and and manned up!

When I suck, I know it's me. I have those days. I just CANNOT flow.

It didn't help I was really trying hard to play SRM's and I just don't think they are very good right now.

Ghost Badger, on 17 April 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

'Like' the post with the picture of my epic game last night, because it was awesome.

Only because I like you.

[Trauglodyte]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

When I suck, I know it's me. I have those days. I just CANNOT flow.

It didn't help I was really trying hard to play SRM's and I just don't think they are very good right now.

I wish that you had stuck around last night. The games got a bit better. I had a stinker in my Wolverine...well, actually, all of my drops in my Wolverine were stinkers. BUT, I eventually got a win in it (I was dead, though). In your defense, and it could just be my total experience in it, the Shadowhawk is just a god awful **** of a mech. I used to do well in it but now, no matter what I do, I turn into complete garbage the second that I launch in it.

[Almond Brown]

Quote

In fact, with a proper heat system, the "meta" issues we've seen crop up would not have existed either.

Every MW game has had heat issues based on the weapons used. It is the nature of the TT game. Ballistics have little to no heat, Energy have heat, some lots.

I wold love to see the Test server with a CD on all weapons increase of 50%, just to see. Energy would benefit the most as cooling times would be increased, despite pilots attempts to melt themselves down and Ballistics would not benefit from such high rates of fire, with little heat drawback, save the now super sucky AC2

Since we can't use made up numbers, without getting rear-arranged around here, it is suspected that most would not like that type of change, even if it bettered the over-all game play. Twitch is the new rule. Common sense and tactical thinking is right out. Pretty sure we can't blame neither Smith&Tinker nor PGI for that sad commentary.

Edited by Almond Brown, 17 April 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Trauglodyte, on 17 April 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

I wish that you had stuck around last night. The games got a bit better. I had a stinker in my Wolverine...well, actually, all of my drops in my Wolverine were stinkers. BUT, I eventually got a win in it (I was dead, though). In your defense, and it could just be my total experience in it, the Shadowhawk is just a god awful **** of a mech. I used to do well in it but now, no matter what I do, I turn into complete garbage the second that I launch in it.

Well, it started with Griffin's so it wasn't my Shadow Hawk's fault.

The death in the Shadow Hawk was due to me being frustrated and not hanging back.

First rule of Mediums, do not be in front.

And it was already close to my quitting time and my kids were being unruly. I'll be back tonight, fresh and ready to shoot stuff.

[Bishop Steiner]

Trauglodyte, on 17 April 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

I wish that you had stuck around last night. The games got a bit better. I had a stinker in my Wolverine...well, actually, all of my drops in my Wolverine were stinkers. BUT, I eventually got a win in it (I was dead, though). In your defense, and it could just be my total experience in it, the Shadowhawk is just a god awful **** of a mech. I used to do well in it but now, no matter what I do, I turn into complete garbage the second that I launch in it.

HEY NOW! Don't hate on the Shad. My 2K ain't the dominator my 2D2 is, but that is cuz I refuse to run duplicate builds. But even with bad builds like 3LRM5 & 2PPC, or 2SRM2, PPC, 2Mlaser, it been doing OK.

2D2 is still the epitome of Medium Mech Play Perfection. (Even though I prefer Griffins)

[Trauglodyte]

It is less about hating the Shad and more just having it be "that mech". You know? Everyone, in my experience, has that one mech that just doesn't seem to work that well. Before, it was the Centurion. Now, it is the Shadowhawk. For some reason, I used to be better at it with my UAC5, PPC, and 320XL. Now, though, my UAC5, PPC, and SRMs w/ a 300XL just aren't getting it done. Wondering if I'm just not ******** or something

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 17 April 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

I wish that you had stuck around last night. The games got a bit better. I had a stinker in my Wolverine...well, actually, all of my drops in my Wolverine were stinkers. BUT, I eventually got a win in it (I was dead, though). In your defense, and it could just be my total experience in it, the Shadowhawk is just a god awful **** of a mech. I used to do well in it but now, no matter what I do, I turn into complete garbage the second that I launch in it.

Trauglodyte, on 17 April 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

It is less about hating the Shad and more just having it be "that mech". You know? Everyone, in my experience, has that one mech that just doesn't seem to work that well. Before, it was the Centurion. Now, it is the Shadowhawk. For some reason, I used to be better at it with my UAC5, PPC, and 320XL. Now, though, my UAC5, PPC, and SRMs w/ a 300XL just aren't getting it done. Wondering if I'm just not ******** or something

The answer to that is... go back to basics. You need to recall why you were successful and work on that.

I mean, I rebought the 2D2 recently, and had a blast with it (especially with the SRM hitreg being better). I was planning to use it as a Streakboat, but I'm killing stuff with SRMs. Time to celebrate!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Almond Brown, on 17 April 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

I wold love to see the Test server

If PGI would put their test server to proper use this game could really blossom.

Throw a test build with a 30 heat cap and double dissipation, just SEE how it works.

[Deathlike]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

If PGI would put their test server to proper use this game could really blossom.

Throw a test build with a 30 heat cap and double dissipation, just SEE how it works.

Man Responsible For Economic Depression said:

How the hell am I going to sell coolant now?

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 17 April 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

The answer to that is... go back to basics. You need to recall why you were successful and work on that.

I mean, I rebought the 2D2 recently, and had a blast with it (especially with the SRM hitreg being better). I was planning to use it as a Streakboat, but I'm killing stuff with SRMs. Time to celebrate!

You're right, buddy. Part of the problem was trying to do too much having TAG, NARC, and long ranged fire. Kind of got caught up in the "what am I supposed to be doing here?" mode.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

If PGI would put their test server to proper use this game could really blossom.

Throw a test build with a 30 heat cap and double dissipation, just SEE how it works.

Do you know what I would really like with/for the Testing Grounds?

• An option to go into a blank grid (think of the ST:TNG holodeck) where you can pick a mech to test drive based on different loadouts, efficiencies, etc even if you don't own it
  
• An option to, in the above mentioned blank grid or on normal maps, where the target mechs actually shoot back so that you can practice.

The testing grounds would be awesome if you could actually, ya know, test stuff. But, stock shut down mechs don't pose a problem and they don't help you get better. What's worse is that the inability to test out mechs that you don't own or builds that you haven't bought equipment actually handicaps you knowing what you're ultimately ending up with when you buy it.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 17 April 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[Armored Yokai]

Where's the "as close to battletech as possible" Battletech doesn't have Ghost Heat, charging gauss or nerfed Autocannons and lasers or for a fact ECM that acts like AECM.

[Mcgral18]

Armored Yokai, on 17 April 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Where's the "as close to battletech as possible" Battletech doesn't have Ghost Heat, charging gauss or nerfed Autocannons and lasers or for a fact ECM that acts like AECM.

"Nerfed" but I don't really feel like math today.

MWLL has a nice BT experience, but not much of a cockpit. MWO does that much better, actually. One of the few things.

[wintersborn]

So screw what the customer/player base wants and just shut up and carry harder?

I understand that skill and teamwork can overcome unbalances but some things are un balanced, like your Skill + Teamwork vs not that. : )

A lot of potential customers vs a few players skill, Its a hard sell you ask me but this is PGI so who knows.