219 replies to this topic

[PACoFist]

How the clowns of PGI balance the game:

1. Do a random buff / nerf.

2. Wait for the shitstorm.

3. Row back. (in this case - hopefully)

[Kmieciu]

Doesn't it bother anyone that AC2 is the second hottest ballistic weapon in game? (1,49 HPS vs 1.50 HPS for AC20)
Shouldn't the AC2 generate the less heat per second than the AC5?

I mean, you can take 4xAC5 and with 10 DHS and Elite Coolrun skill you can fire for 9 minutes which is more than you'll ever need since you will have used out of ammo in 2 minutes 5 seconds after having done potential 1500 damage. CTF-4X 4xAC5

I know it's not a good mech, but using AC5 exclusively eliminates the need for heat management. You get 20 alpha + 12 DPS without ghost heat or any other drawbacks.

Now try to do the same with 4xAC2:
CTF-4X 4xAC2

You'll only get 8 alpha+ 6.22 sustained DPS. And it you try to group fire them,you will overheat in 23 seconds even with 15 DHS.

In order for the AC2 to be compatitive, HPS would have to be lowered beyond AC5 (<0.6 HPS)

Edited by Kmieciu, 22 April 2014 - 03:09 AM.

[Gyrok]

Soulscour, on 22 April 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

I'm not going to get into an arguement of how closely the game should follow tabletop because its already been done to death. Needless to say, I am in complete disagreement with you. That being said, this game has already deviated a lot from table top rules in the interest of play balance. AC2 in its role used in tabletop is a pathetic weapon in this FPS game. You want to live in the mechwarrior world. I just want a game that is balanced where all the guns are useful.

Yes, it deviated from TT for the detriment of the game. If they had stuck with a hard heat cap of 30 per mech, we would not have the boating problems, or the massive alpha strike problems, and ghost heat would have never come about. DHS would still be 2.0 and no one would complain either.

I suppose you would have had to have played TT to know that though...or do you expect to see 6xERPPC stalkers in TT too (without ghost heat)?

Edited by Gyrok, 22 April 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Still have two of them on my BNC-3E. Didn't miss a beat. Although I can sustain fire longer now so that's a plus.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kmieciu, on 22 April 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

Doesn't it bother anyone that AC2 is the second hottest ballistic weapon in game? (1,49 HPS vs 1.50 HPS for AC20)
Shouldn't the AC2 generate the less heat per second than the AC5?

I mean, you can take 4xAC5 and with 10 DHS and Elite Coolrun skill you can fire for 9 minutes which is more than you'll ever need since you will have used out of ammo in 2 minutes 5 seconds after having done potential 1500 damage. CTF-4X 4xAC5

I know it's not a good mech, but using AC5 exclusively eliminates the need for heat management. You get 20 alpha + 12 DPS without ghost heat or any other drawbacks.

Now try to do the same with 4xAC2:
CTF-4X 4xAC2

You'll only get 8 alpha+ 6.22 sustained DPS. And it you try to group fire them,you will overheat in 23 seconds even with 15 DHS.

In order for the AC2 to be compatitive, HPS would have to be lowered beyond AC5 (<0.6 HPS)

I'm not entirely against this, though I think 0.8 would be a more reasonable number.

[Joseph Mallan]

I started doing this back in the 80s... What took you guys so long?

[BigBadVlad]

Quad AC/2 Jager is still plenty dangerous enough as I found out in my Battlemaster with ERPPC and dual AC/5. He had a ridge to use and used it well against me being lower and in a valley. I hurt him pretty good but he still got me.

I'd vote in favour of restoring AC/2's range but personally I think the cooldown should be increased to somewhere in between 1 and 1.25 seconds perhaps. The AC/2 is not supposed to be that strong of a weapon, it's DPS still needs to come down but give it back the extended range.

[Gyrok]

BigBadVlad, on 22 April 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Quad AC/2 Jager is still plenty dangerous enough as I found out in my Battlemaster with ERPPC and dual AC/5. He had a ridge to use and used it well against me being lower and in a valley. I hurt him pretty good but he still got me.

I'd vote in favour of restoring AC/2's range but personally I think the cooldown should be increased to somewhere in between 1 and 1.25 seconds perhaps. The AC/2 is not supposed to be that strong of a weapon, it's DPS still needs to come down but give it back the extended range.

Quad AC2 is dangerous if you stand out in the open long enough....but so are small pulse lasers when you have 6 or 8 of them...

[Captain Stiffy]

3xAC2 and UAC5 on the same torso... I am loving the Banshee. This weapon will absolutely shred any mech dumb enough not to retreat. Plus lasers.

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 22 April 2014 - 09:06 PM.

[Gyrok]

Captain Stiffy, on 22 April 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

3xAC2 and UAC5 on the same torso... I am loving the Banshee. This weapon will absolutely shred any mech dumb enough not to retreat. Plus lasers.

If you like that, try 3xAC5 + 2xPPC, the guns weigh less, you carry one ammo type, and your alpha strike, when needed is 35.

[Monky]

It was semi-viable as a suppression build with 2x AC2 and 2x UAC5 on a banshee, but now the 3xAC5 and 2x PPC build is the clear winner. I was happy to have another mech where you could actually make meaningful decisions in how you wanted to run it and still be at, least situationally, ideally effective but now it's a no brainer.

Edited by Monky, 23 April 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[DONTOR]

Sadly one of my absolute favorite weapons, is now terrible IMO. I used to make it work well, and felt good about not having highpinpont damage and still wrecking people, sadly those days are over for the AC2. Remove the ghost heat and chainfire hinderance and maybe il go back.

[Gyrok]

DONTOR, on 23 April 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Sadly one of my absolute favorite weapons, is now terrible IMO. I used to make it work well, and felt good about not having highpinpont damage and still wrecking people, sadly those days are over for the AC2. Remove the ghost heat and chainfire hinderance and maybe il go back.

Exactly...it was far from OP before...now it is just worthless.

[Xarian]

- Higher projectile speed means that accuracy is better at longer ranges
- The range is still very long - long enough that the projectile speed is quite important
- Heat is only an issue if you are the sort of player that sits still (or runs in a perfect circle, etc) mashing the trigger
- Lower damage per projectile combined with more shots per ton of ammo means that you have the same total damage as an AC/5 per ton of ammo, but the weapon is more forgiving of misses (meaning you can "spray and pray" in situations where you don't have time to aim)

I've tried swapping between AC/5 and AC/2 on various mechs and find that they perform completely different roles. The AC/2 is good for fast harassers (Spider, Cicada, etc), and the AC/5 is good for dakka mechs (Jager, etc). The AC/2 is also very good in situations where you just want to lay down a hail of fire without as much regard for accuracy - the above Banshee is a good example.

But, by all means, don't let me take you away from your doom and gloom.

Edited by Xarian, 25 April 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[Tahribator]

The worst thing is that Paul can't properly explain why he nerfed the AC2 other than using "normalization" as an excuse. This leads me to believe that AC2 got the shaft just because its DPS didn't look good on paper. This was a huge blow to mechs that made use of single AC2. Now it's pretty much either boat a lot of them, or pair them with another AC.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Xarian, on 25 April 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

The AC/2 is also very good in situations where you just want to lay down a hail of fire without as much regard for accuracy - the above Banshee is a good example.

Or for keeping a poptarts attention - either by keeping his head down, or focused on/distracted by you - while teammates flank them.

[Daekar]

I do believe that the sky will literally fall when the rest of the ACs are given 2x falloff.

[Gyrok]

Shar Wolf, on 25 April 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

Or for keeping a poptarts attention - either by keeping his head down, or focused on/distracted by you - while teammates flank them.

But it is not advantageous to take 2xAC2s vs. 2xAC5s. You literally have to run 3 for it to be worthwhile.

[Pale Jackal]

AC2's problem has always been it's ridiculous heat-per-damage ratio.

[Slepnir]

Nope, they still work just fine, only had one mech with AC2 and it still has it.