24 replies to this topic

[MasterDDragon]

Hopefully this topic will generate some useful thinking in both the new gamers and well as the older ones.

For all of those that just have to write a negative response just because, refer to the song "Here's Your Sign".

For any that want to put some thought into it, and constructive a responses/criticism, make sure you understand the stated facts before you do so please.

Let us start with the basic principle that everyone seems to be forgetting.


PGI IS A COMPANY SELLING A PRODUCT! THAT PRODUCT IS MECHWARRIOR ONLINE!


That said, the company will do what it deems best get new members in and to make money. All of you that think that the player base has shrunk are not new enough to see the masses in Newbie Hell.

I have been in the game for about 4 months, and am just getting good enough to mostly pull out of Newbie Hell. Now, when I PUG, I am in Newbie Central. Though I prefer to drop with my fellow Lone Wolfs for now.

The members on the Forum represent the MINORITY of players. Trust me.

AND THE NEWBIES THAT DO TRY TO POST ON THE FORUMS ARE USUALLY TREATED LIKE PLAGUE CARRIERS FOR ASKING QUESTIONS, OR LEAVING COMMENTS.

Look to the yourselves first for the reason the 'community' is fractured and broken. And the reason the Newbies don't come to the forums.

Me personally, as long as I get to play, I am good. Now that I have a group to play with, even better.

I don't care what anyone on here say to or about me if they are brainlessly spouting. I run my own business, have for years. So I understand, it is not about making every individual happy, but about getting happy new customers that will spend money.

After all, there is an old saying about that:

"YOU CAN MAKE SOME OF THE PEOPLE HAPPY ALL OF THE TIME, OR YOU CAN MAKE ALL OF THE PEOPLE HAPPY SOME OF THE TIME. YOU CANNOT DO BOTH!"

I have my complaints, but I keep them as none of you here seem to understand that none of what you want will be done unless there is a consensus.

Perfect example, the latest nerf. Almost all of you had the same idea that it needed to be done. Hardly any of you would agree as to how to go about that. Instead, there were endless forum streams of bickering and "NO MY WAY IS BEST!".

So the devs nerfed, since that was the consensus, but as to how, they had to come up with a way that would work, and would not drive new players away, without any help from any of you other than bickering.

Wow, NONE OF YOU LIKED IT, CAUSE IT WAS NOT YOUR WAY.

SOUNDS LIKE MY FOUR YEAR OLD OVER AGAIN.

If you want to see things improve in a manner that you like, be nicer to the new guys, bring them into the forums with RESPECT, and then work out the solutions as a unified community.

I know not everyone will agree, that is where Diplomacy, Respect, and Compromise come in.

If I have t explain what Respect is to any of you, then we are doomed.

Diplomacy with Respect means being nice, even if you don't agree and or don't like someone. Talking to them to try and get a Compromise.

Compromise means you DO NOT get your way. NO ONE DOES. You get something that you can ACCEPT, and so do others.

If you, as a community in the game as it stands, would try this, I would imagine that, as a community, you would see much better results.

If you are not even willing to try this, then why do you even comment on the forums?

If you can not act as a community member, why not just PUG and leave the rest of the community alone?

The best example I have of this is one of you cussing out my son that just started his account and dropped with me and my fellow Lone Wolfs. Because it was a team drop, our group ELO (however that is figured) was higher, and of course he is BRAND NEW to the game. A Prominent Forum Poster and member of this Community Cussed him out as best as can be done for his lack of Experience.

And you guys wonder why 'our community' seems to be dwindling. No it is not, just less people want to deal with the ones that seem to want to have a community while constantly tearing down the game and the community.

It is 4:12 Monday, April 21, 2014 my time. I will check this thread again in one week. I hope I will not have to "Here's Your Sign" any of the responses and just ignore that response. After all, I have learned, YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

[Eddrick]

One person made a thread to see if compremize was possible. Some are willing to come to a compremize on things. Some refuse.

One issue you will come across in any Social Network setting is Anonymity. Some people on the internet tend to do, whatever they want. Because, very little can't be done about it. It's one of the main reasons "Trolls" exist on the Internet. They get a rise out of messing with people and little can be done about it.

[Khobai]

Quote

The members on the Forum represent the MINORITY of players. Trust me.

So? whats your point? Just because the forums constitute a vocal minority doesnt mean the majority doesnt agree with them.

You know how TV ratings work? They take a statistical sampling of a small group of people and then extrapolate the results from that sample. TV ratings work because the minority is representitive of the whole.

[Sandpit]

MasterDDragon, on 21 April 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

For all of those that just have to write a negative response just because, refer to the song "Here's Your Sign".


It is 4:12 Monday, April 21, 2014 my time. I will check this thread again in one week. I hope I will not have to "Here's Your Sign" any of the responses and just ignore that response. After all, I have learned, YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

soooooooooooooo

you're all about the community getting along yet you begin and end your post with nothing but insults....

anyhow....

uhm what was the point of the thread? To call for everyone to play nice? I'm not sure what your intentions for the thread are....

what exactly are we supposed to be compromising on? I'm just not sure what you're trying to make your topic about...

[Roadbeer]

Khobai, on 21 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

You know how TV ratings work? They take a statistical sampling of a small group of people and then extrapolate the results from that sample. TV ratings work because the minority is representitive of the whole.

QFT, I represent 10,000 people (in a town of 5,000). Weird huh?

[Sandpit]

MasterDDragon, on 21 April 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

The members on the Forum represent the MINORITY of players. Trust me.

uhm....

possibly but you do realize that some of us actually speak for others that don't post on the forums because of all the nonsense. Just because I post something doesn't mean there aren't 10 other people who agree with and support the idea or suggestion I'm laying down. How do I know that? Well I know that because I talk to people in the game. I talk to people in my unit.

I'm still not sure what you're wanting the topic of this thread to be though

[Khobai]

Quote

QFT, I represent 10,000 people (in a town of 5,000). Weird huh?

thats not how statistical sampling works at all. its a lot more involved than that. were talking some very complex math.

The point is the majority opinions on the forums are generally shared by the majority of players. White knights are in the minority on the forums just like theyre in the minority of the entire player base.

Edited by Khobai, 21 April 2014 - 02:11 PM.

[Cascal]

Let me get this straight, you just called the entire community whiny babies in an extremely condescending way and expect "constructive responses/criticism"?

Good luck.

I, for one, think it is good that people voice their concerns here, no matter how badly put forth or how immature they are. Sure beats kissing developer a** all day when most can agree that the game has issues.

I get what you are saying, I really do, but I can't really tell people to be calm and collected in their posts and maybe even content with the state of the game when there are so many issues still remaining. I can totally understand that a founder of this game is pretty upset with how it turned out. As you can see I'm not a frequent poster here, but I lurk like hell and play regularly. I have several issues with the game, its current state and the glacial development, and if my temper where different I totally would whine on the forums.

So yeah, all I'm saying is that just because someone is abrasive or unconstructive in their criticism doesn't make what they are complaining about a non-issue only idiots care about.

[RedDragon]

Well, on the first look you seem to have some valid points, but the problems go much deeper than what you describe.

First of all, you say you are new to the game. So you just don't have the history some of us have with the Devs and the game. In Closed Beta we were all a happy bunch and worked with the Devs to build this game, at least we thought we did. When they failed to implement our wishes or didn't communicate that well we thought "Ok, they are a small team, have lots of things to do etc etc." But as the time progressed and the Devs failed to reach each and every goal while don't talking to us, sometimes even belittling us, the mood grew sour. There were incidents that drove large wedges between the community and the Devs, for instance as they introduced Coolant Flush or 3rd person view against the will of 90% of the community for reasons that were more than unconvincing to say the least.
So I think it's a bit of presumptuous to say "we didn't even try". We tried to work with the Devs for a long time and got nothing but excuses and ignoring in return, along with a game that many of us did not want and did not support with our money (Founders).

Converning the other point you are talking about, the way new players are treated: This behaviour is inexcusable and should not happen. The MW-community is known for its helpfulness and most guys here are really happy to help new players. But there are black sheep in every community and especially ingame there are many morons who should not be seen as an example of the community's mindset. In 99% of the cases when new players have questions and ask them in a friendly way here on the forums, they will get help and good advice. There are many communities out there that are a lot less helpful and embracing towards new players.

[Roadbeer]

Khobai, on 21 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

thats not how statistical sampling works at all. its a lot more involved than that. were talking some very complex math.

Actually, it's not. I'm a Nielsen home, and what I said is exactly how it works (for them at least), not saying that what they do with the data they collect from me isn't part of some complex voodoo, but, as it's been put to me when interacting with them it's basically "Yeah, you represent 10k people"

Edited by Roadbeer, 21 April 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Well, I see that you've been a member since Feb 21, 2014 yet you mention being in the game for four months in the OP...

Hmm... My fuzzy math-fu senses are tingling.

Maybe this is an alt-account as I've read about?

[Davers]

Khobai, on 21 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

So? whats your point? Just because the forums constitute a vocal minority doesnt mean the majority doesnt agree with them.

You know how TV ratings work? They take a statistical sampling of a small group of people and then extrapolate the results from that sample. TV ratings work because the minority is representitive of the whole.

Bullshit! EVERYONE loved Firefly!

[Davers]

MasterDDragon, on 21 April 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

Hopefully this topic will generate some useful thinking in both the new gamers and well as the older ones.

For all of those that just have to write a negative response just because, refer to the song "Here's Your Sign".

For any that want to put some thought into it, and constructive a responses/criticism, make sure you understand the stated facts before you do so please.

Let us start with the basic principle that everyone seems to be forgetting.


PGI IS A COMPANY SELLING A PRODUCT! THAT PRODUCT IS MECHWARRIOR ONLINE!


That said, the company will do what it deems best get new members in and to make money. All of you that think that the player base has shrunk are not new enough to see the masses in Newbie Hell.

I have been in the game for about 4 months, and am just getting good enough to mostly pull out of Newbie Hell. Now, when I PUG, I am in Newbie Central. Though I prefer to drop with my fellow Lone Wolfs for now.

The members on the Forum represent the MINORITY of players. Trust me.

AND THE NEWBIES THAT DO TRY TO POST ON THE FORUMS ARE USUALLY TREATED LIKE PLAGUE CARRIERS FOR ASKING QUESTIONS, OR LEAVING COMMENTS.

Look to the yourselves first for the reason the 'community' is fractured and broken. And the reason the Newbies don't come to the forums.

Me personally, as long as I get to play, I am good. Now that I have a group to play with, even better.

I don't care what anyone on here say to or about me if they are brainlessly spouting. I run my own business, have for years. So I understand, it is not about making every individual happy, but about getting happy new customers that will spend money.

After all, there is an old saying about that:

"YOU CAN MAKE SOME OF THE PEOPLE HAPPY ALL OF THE TIME, OR YOU CAN MAKE ALL OF THE PEOPLE HAPPY SOME OF THE TIME. YOU CANNOT DO BOTH!"

I have my complaints, but I keep them as none of you here seem to understand that none of what you want will be done unless there is a consensus.

Perfect example, the latest nerf. Almost all of you had the same idea that it needed to be done. Hardly any of you would agree as to how to go about that. Instead, there were endless forum streams of bickering and "NO MY WAY IS BEST!".

So the devs nerfed, since that was the consensus, but as to how, they had to come up with a way that would work, and would not drive new players away, without any help from any of you other than bickering.

Wow, NONE OF YOU LIKED IT, CAUSE IT WAS NOT YOUR WAY.

SOUNDS LIKE MY FOUR YEAR OLD OVER AGAIN.

If you want to see things improve in a manner that you like, be nicer to the new guys, bring them into the forums with RESPECT, and then work out the solutions as a unified community.

I know not everyone will agree, that is where Diplomacy, Respect, and Compromise come in.

If I have t explain what Respect is to any of you, then we are doomed.

Diplomacy with Respect means being nice, even if you don't agree and or don't like someone. Talking to them to try and get a Compromise.

Compromise means you DO NOT get your way. NO ONE DOES. You get something that you can ACCEPT, and so do others.

If you, as a community in the game as it stands, would try this, I would imagine that, as a community, you would see much better results.

If you are not even willing to try this, then why do you even comment on the forums?

If you can not act as a community member, why not just PUG and leave the rest of the community alone?

The best example I have of this is one of you cussing out my son that just started his account and dropped with me and my fellow Lone Wolfs. Because it was a team drop, our group ELO (however that is figured) was higher, and of course he is BRAND NEW to the game. A Prominent Forum Poster and member of this Community Cussed him out as best as can be done for his lack of Experience.

And you guys wonder why 'our community' seems to be dwindling. No it is not, just less people want to deal with the ones that seem to want to have a community while constantly tearing down the game and the community.

It is 4:12 Monday, April 21, 2014 my time. I will check this thread again in one week. I hope I will not have to "Here's Your Sign" any of the responses and just ignore that response. After all, I have learned, YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

You seem to have a tenuous grasp of Diplomacy, Respect, and Compromise yourself.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Davers, on 21 April 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

Bullshit! EVERYONE loved Firefly!

It was a pretty good movie, still half in love with this one...


Such a capable and shy girl...

[Pyrrho]

mwhighlander, on 21 April 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

It was a pretty good movie...

You do know that there are 13 episodes of an unfinished season 1 cancelled by Fox, right?

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Pyrrho, on 21 April 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

You do know that there are 13 episodes of an unfinished season 1 cancelled by Fox, right?

[Pyrrho]

mwhighlander, on 21 April 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

*that guy*

Seriously, if you haven't (because I can't yet tell if you have), go lose about half a day to Netflix.

[Roadbeer]

Pyrrho, on 21 April 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Seriously, if you haven't (because I can't yet tell if you have), go lose about half a day to Netflix.

Right?
If after the first 11 episodes (because Fox never aired the last 2, and showed the 2 episode pilot out of order) you don't realize that canceling Firefly is the biggest crime Fox perpetuated on mankind (with the exception of American Idol) then you have no soul.

[Pyrrho]

Roadbeer, on 21 April 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

Right?
If after the first 11 episodes (because Fox never aired the last 2, and showed the 2 episode pilot out of order) you don't realize that canceling Firefly is the biggest crime Fox perpetuated on mankind (with the exception of American Idol) then you have no soul.

Now I am just sad, thinking about Earth that Was and all the great things that never got to originate from it.

[Roadbeer]

mwhighlander, on 21 April 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

It was a pretty good movie, still half in love with this one...


Such a capable and shy girl...

She had a good run on Stargate Atlantis too.