41 replies to this topic

[InsertRubiksCube]

So, I've been playing the trial version of the Jenner, and I wanted to buy it, but it was too much. So do any of you guys know any good light mechs that are similar to the Jenner?

[Joseph Mallan]

Raven... best one is even more expensive than the Jenner though. IIRC.

[DONTOR]

Cicadas and Firestarters are similar in loadouts with the cicadas being more diverse, but with with no JJs.

[Crimson Fenris]

I got pretty decent results with Firestarters, which are basically commandoes with 10 tons more and JJs :

+ 7 or 8 weapons hardpoints, about 2 more than Jenner and highest number in the light category
+ Mostly symetric hardpoints, like Jenners
+ many torso-mounted weaponry, allowing to lose arms and still being effective
+ 2 ballistics on the H version
+ 2 AMS on the S version
+ Good durability with thin profile and big shoulders to protect side torsoes (you mostly lose arms before)
+ Mobile arms with lateral movement
+ Better hitboxes repartition (no "big walking torso" effect)
+ Good JJ cap, better than Jenners

- Low-mounted weapons
- Slightly higher than Jenner
- No access to missiles
- No access to ECM
- Limited to 295 engine rating (no 2nd DHS in the engine)
- Lower arm actuators which take 2 crit slots, mostly preventing use of FF armor
- a bit short on torso vertical twist, need elite tier mandatory to efficient use of torso weapons


The FS chassis is very energy-oriented, and need some sacrifices to build anything but a giant walking fryier, like not using all energy hardpoints, mixing medium laser with small, or using only small ones.
The two less critical slots and the inability to fit a second heatsink into the engine is somewhat a liability, sadly preventing the optimal use we could get with it... in exchange, we got a pretty solid and polyvalent light that could fit in many roles.

Edited by Crimson Fenris, 22 April 2014 - 07:00 AM.

[levitas]

Light mechs are roughly in this order:

Firestarters and Jenners: Jenners do 6MLas builds with better cooling and are smaller, which is nice. Firestarters have better hitboxes for twisting/spreading damage which is really great. Embers are pretty great, too. Oxide can hunt lights and nothing else, which is usually not a valid role, I wouldn't recommend it unless you want that.

Raven 3L: 2xERLLas build is solid. Poke at a range with ECM. Can't duel other lights, but guns are high up on one side which is great.

Spider 5D: ECM is great, use 2MLas and an ERLLas. Not as good as above mechs. Low firepower, but very survivable mech.

Other light mechs. (Unambiguously not as good. Either have a serious flaw like raven's slower max speed or not enough tonnage to bring firepower, speed, armor, and ammo)

Locusts: Explode if someone sneezes across the map. Hilariously bad even with the leg update, but I enjoy mine (in moderation).


Get started on a Jenner or firestarter, put an XL295 in it, and it'll let you branch out to most of what light meching has to offer. If you're looking for a guide on how to actually play light mechs, PEEFsmash made a good one, but it's aging. It still demonstrates solid play and I'd definitely recommend watching it.

Edit: since I didn't explicitly say it, always always ALWAYS prioritize speed in a light mech. If you're going slower than 150kph (with tweak), something is horribly wrong. The only exception I would consider is the Raven 3L, which can make do with an XL280 if you want to throw in heatsink number 12.

Edited by solar levitas, 22 April 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[Spheroid]

Just get a Firestarter. You can build viable builds using cheap standard engines. I don't know if that is true of the Jenner.

[Ovion]

Too much how?

Real world money?
C-Bills?

If you buy a Jenner F (2.9m c-bills), you'll get all the experience you've acquired from piloting the JR7-F(C) which is nice.

Otherwise... lights are really cheap, and it shouldn't take more than 5-7 hours playtime to afford one.

[Lostdragon]

You are going to have to spend a lot of cbills to get a light up to snuff. Lights can cost as much or more to outfit than many heavy or assault mechs because you have to buy double heatsinks, endosteel structure, and a big XL engine. Some also need ferro fibrous armor and Artemis. The engine alone will cost more than you pay for the mech, but ifbyou buy a Jenner and an XL 300 you can use that engine in many other mechs. The XL 295 is the max engine for some lights and is also a good choice but has one less heatsink slot than the 300.

[mailin]

As said previously, buying a light is fairly inexpensive, but equipping it properly gets very costly, very fast. Lights need DHS to get maximum efficiency, which is a 1.5 million c-bill upgrade and is not transferrable to other mechs, unlike engines or modules. The XL engines are really required for lights as well as endo and usually FF. But probably the biggest expense is modules. If you want 1 cap accelerator, it will cost you 6000 GXP and 15 million c-bills. Luckily, you can transfer modules and engines, although it's a royal pain to do so.

However, once you have all those upgrades, running a light is very satisfying. Think about the difference between driving a racecar, a family sedan, a delivery truck or a semi. Each has their purpose, but beyond a doubt for sheer driving experience the racecar is the way to go.

[Drunken Bunny]

Just my opinion but if you're willing to spend a wee bit of actual money, the Jenner F(C) is probably the best value for MC out there.

Comes with DHS, Endo, FF (I think) and an XL300. Basically ready to kick ass and take names right out of the box

[Ken Burkhart]

Yeah, save up for it or buy the Champion trial. It is worth it. I've been running so many builds(OK, maybe with limits) with it that I have too much fun!

[RiotHero]

Crimson Fenris, on 22 April 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

I got pretty decent results with Firestarters, which are basically commandoes with 10 tons more and JJs :

+ 7 or 8 weapons hardpoints, about 2 more than Jenner and highest number in the light category
+ Mostly symetric hardpoints, like Jenners
+ many torso-mounted weaponry, allowing to lose arms and still being effective
+ 2 ballistics on the H version
+ 2 AMS on the S version
+ Good durability with thin profile and big shoulders to protect side torsoes (you mostly lose arms before)
+ Mobile arms with lateral movement
+ Better hitboxes repartition (no "big walking torso" effect)
+ Good JJ cap, better than Jenners

- Low-mounted weapons
- Slightly higher than Jenner
- No access to missiles
- No access to ECM
- Limited to 295 engine rating (no 2nd DHS in the engine)
- Lower arm actuators which take 2 crit slots, mostly preventing use of FF armor
- a bit short on torso vertical twist, need elite tier mandatory to efficient use of torso weapons


The FS chassis is very energy-oriented, and need some sacrifices to build anything but a giant walking fryier, like not using all energy hardpoints, mixing medium laser with small, or using only small ones.
The two less critical slots and the inability to fit a second heatsink into the engine is somewhat a liability, sadly preventing the optimal use we could get with it... in exchange, we got a pretty solid and polyvalent light that could fit in many roles.

Firestarter is also wider and has taller legs.

The jump jet cap and transverse arms might be nice on paper but, have no real world advantage. I've never needed or known anyone to need even more than 2 JJ's in a light and most good pilots get by just fine with 1. If you are in the air you are a "floating" duck and will be going very slowly when you land. JJ's are just for getting cover between you and someone else. Not to mention they are eating up very valuable tonnage in a light. As far as the arms go Jenners torso twist so fast you don't need arms that can target side to side. In fact you can easily blow right past someone you are aiming at if you aren't careful. Oh and dual ams is all but pointless in a light. I've yet to do poorly in a light because of not having ams let alone not having two. Maybe in some very specifc situational team play it would be useful but, in a pug that tonnage is way better served elsewhere. I have dual ams in my Thud and don't find it all that helpful.

Everything else I basically agree with.

[Ertur]

The cheapest Jenner to get up and running with a competition level build is the JR7-K. Keep the stock weapons but add endo, DHS, and an 300XL engine. Keep 2 JJ, set armor to max but take 4 off of the head and one each from the arms.

It'll look like this: JR7-K Cool-Kilo

Total cost is less than 12,000,000 cbills IIRC. Don't sell any of the stuff you take off, except maybe the SHS. The Std 245 can work in a Centurian or Hunchie. You should be able to afford it once you have your full starter bonus done. All mechs can be expensive to set up to be used. Figure at least 10 million at least for any mech. Lights almost always need XL engines, endo, DHS, and FF armor -- that right there is over the cost of the mech itself for nearly any light.

If you want a shortcut, the Light mech bundle isn't a bad deal. You get the JR7-F champion version, some premium time, and some fluff. That costs real money, though.

Be sure to favorite the smurfy page I linked above, that's where you can check out potential builds.

[Ertur]

solar levitas, on 22 April 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Other light mechs. (Unambiguously not as good. Either have a serious flaw like raven's slower max speed or not enough tonnage to bring firepower, speed, armor, and ammo)

The only thing I disagree with is this.
Some of my best matches were in Commandos.
At the end of a match, it was 9-11 with my COM-3A vs 2 heavies and a highlander trial, and I won.
In another match it was my TDK vs a 'phract, SH, and Atlas, and I won. Had 6 kills overall and nearly 800 damage.
Once I had 7 kills in a COM-2D. That was only because I was stealing everyone else's kills, but still fun.

However, Commandos were the last thing I mastered before the FS9's came out. I would NOT recommend them to someone new. JR7's or FS9's are best for new light pilots. The others need a bit of skill to be deadly. The Locust needs a lot of skill to just not be terribad. I would recommend Locusts for anyone who wants to truly master the art of being a light pilot, though. When you can actually do well in one of those, you can do amazingly well in anything else. But it is miserable running one of those rattling deathtraps, I won't lie.

I'd also add the 3MLas 2SSRM2 raven build for counter light ops as a viable build. Stands up against other lights better, at least.

[Ertur]

sneeking, on 25 May 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

the pressure cooker

I ran this for the free premium time over the weekend ( put in a beer fueled all nighter ) had some very successful matches in it. surprisingly effective even on hot maps with some fire control and still lethal even after losing an arm.

Not a good mech for me. The problem isn't the build but rather the idiot pilot who would overheat right in front of the fully operational AC40 Jaeger and his Gausapult buddy.
That kind of stunt makes for a short match.

[M E X]

solar levitas, on 22 April 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

...
since I didn't explicitly say it, always always ALWAYS prioritize speed in a light mech. If you're going slower than 150kph (with tweak), something is horribly wrong.
...

I 2nd that !

Especially for the CLAN lights which are slower than 100kph !
Too bad that they dont release the Dasher/Firemoth as their first Clan Mech

[SaltBeef]

That Sarna Link is incorrect about the Dasher B it has a ECM suite in the 3050 technical readout. Pretty sure it had a active probe Fixed in the CT. May be wrong on that though... I know one of the light does have a fixed AP!. The clans were sure the Inferior IS scum would attempt to power down and hide or flee the battlefeild so they had lots of active probe use.

Edited by SaltBeef, 27 May 2014 - 02:23 AM.

[LiGhtningFF13]

In my opinion two variants at the moment:

1. Variant: Firestarter
2. Variant: Spider

Good speed, bad Hitbox and good armament.

[maniacos]

Jenner F => Laser boat. Balance to get 4 ml and 2 mpulse, xl300 == 32 dmg/152 kph (elite)
Jenner D => Missile/Laser. Can fit 2 x srm4 and 4 medlas == 36 dmg (@150kph elite) however srm4 need quite some skills compared to streak but if you learn how to use them, they are decend damage dealer against slower/bigger targets. can also fit 2x lrm5

Raven 3L => most used RVN because of ECM. Decent longrange grinder for assist points with large laser but no JJ
Raven 4X => 2MG good for peeling amor off legs. has JJ and can longrange with large laser.

My favorite ATM is the JR7-D closely followerd by RVN-4X

PS: Raven was a hell to elite, because of that RVN-2X useless piece of crap (why is it even in the game?). Be prepeared to die alot. JR7-K is a pain too, but not as much as the 2X.

Edited by Jherek C, 27 May 2014 - 03:27 AM.

[Smokeyjedi]

LiGhtningFF13, on 27 May 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

In my opinion two variants at the moment:

1. Variant: Firestarter
2. Variant: Spider

Good speed, bad Hitbox and good armament.

And Cicada(medium) carries more armor and weapons but after speed tweak and max XL you too can do 150KPH.........Totally can run with the lil critters and big boys......well at least survive more than 2 ppcs lol.