106 replies to this topic

[Trauglodyte]

Given all of the issues in the game and the content that is missing, does this really matter? The biggest issue with fighting the Raven way back when was firing at it and having your shots miss by going through its legs. From the look of the screen shots, the added space isn't so game breaking. I won't argue whether it is fair or not because it probably isn't. But smart 3L pilots are running double ER LLs and you're better off running a Jenner or Firestarter if you want to be a knife fighter.

I don't like nerfs but this pales in comparison to a lot of things. So, again, if you have a problem with the Raven legs, play a Locust and come back and talk to me. At least you have the benefit of full armor on your legs vs. the MWO Locust paying the price from the TT stupidity.

[FupDup]

Trauglodyte, on 02 May 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

Given all of the issues in the game and the content that is missing, does this really matter? The biggest issue with fighting the Raven way back when was firing at it and having your shots miss by going through its legs. From the look of the screen shots, the added space isn't so game breaking. I won't argue whether it is fair or not because it probably isn't. But smart 3L pilots are running double ER LLs and you're better off running a Jenner or Firestarter if you want to be a knife fighter.

I don't like nerfs but this pales in comparison to a lot of things. So, again, if you have a problem with the Raven legs, play a Locust and come back and talk to me. At least you have the benefit of full armor on your legs vs. the MWO Locust paying the price from the TT stupidity.

I went through the horrors of Locust grinding as part of my Overlord package, and I can say that I support a Raven hitbox restoration to regular size. Yes, the Locust is in a very, horrifically weak state right now, I don't think most people would disagree with that. However, the Locust's current condition is not the Raven's fault, so the Raven shouldn't have to pay for it.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 02 May 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

Given all of the issues in the game and the content that is missing, does this really matter? The biggest issue with fighting the Raven way back when was firing at it and having your shots miss by going through its legs. From the look of the screen shots, the added space isn't so game breaking. I won't argue whether it is fair or not because it probably isn't. But smart 3L pilots are running double ER LLs and you're better off running a Jenner or Firestarter if you want to be a knife fighter.

I don't like nerfs but this pales in comparison to a lot of things. So, again, if you have a problem with the Raven legs, play a Locust and come back and talk to me. At least you have the benefit of full armor on your legs vs. the MWO Locust paying the price from the TT stupidity.

Back when hitreg was still poor, but PPCs were gaining traction AND the 3L was still the meta mech AND the hitbox change hadn't occurred yet, I legged those damn things with PPCs. Some would say I got lucky... All I can say is "they were nevermore".

Edited by Deathlike, 02 May 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

FupDup, on 02 May 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

I went through the horrors of Locust grinding as part of my Overlord package, and I can say that I support a Raven hitbox restoration to regular size. Yes, the Locust is in a very, horrifically weak state right now, I don't think most people would disagree with that. However, the Locust's current condition is not the Raven's fault, so the Raven shouldn't have to pay for it.

You're correct in that and I'm not saying that the Raven should suffer because of the Locust. What I'm saying, though, is that the original side and center torsos on the Raven were so screwed that they updated them while still being forced to expand the legs just so you could hit the damned things. The irony is that they expanded the Raven legs to be more managable to hit and yet we still have Spider/FS torsos that take nothing (unless you're driving it where they take damage even when you're not getting fired at).

Deathlike, on 02 May 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

Back when hitreg was still poor, but PPCs were gaining traction AND the 3L was still the meta mech AND the hitbox change hadn't occurred yet, I legged those damn things with PPCs. Some would say I got lucky... All I can say is "they were nevermore".

You are awful with puns.

I remember the Raven at release and I also still remember, very clearly, all of the shots that I fired at the Raven only to see them sailing inbetween their legs. The pelvis is wide enough to where its spindly legs make it near impossible to hit routinely. So, that is why I think PGI made the change. On a mech that size, not being able to hit its legs makes for a balance issue. Yet, they haven't done anything to the Spider which isn't as wide and has skinnier arms/legs.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 02 May 2014 - 09:36 AM.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 02 May 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

You're correct in that and I'm not saying that the Raven should suffer because of the Locust. What I'm saying, though, is that the original side and center torsos on the Raven were so screwed that they updated them while still being forced to expand the legs just so you could hit the damned things. The irony is that they expanded the Raven legs to be more managable to hit and yet we still have Spider/FS torsos that take nothing (unless you're driving it where they take damage even when you're not getting fired at).

The Spider's CT is part of the Matrix. LEG ALL LIGHTS!

Quote

You are awful with puns.

I should probably rename my Raven Lenore.

[L A V A]

Trauglodyte, on 02 May 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

I remember the Raven at release and I also still remember, very clearly, all of the shots that I fired at the Raven only to see them sailing inbetween their legs.

So you admit you're a poor shot.

Better than most.

[RealityCube]

The hitbox issues of the Raven may not be the biggest issue (as if anything could top CW right now), but it does seem like the easiest thing to fix. I am in no way qualified to make a time judgement on how long it would take to fix the hitboxes on the Raven, but I'm going to guess that 1 guy in 8 hours or less could make it happen. The rest of the hitboxes on all the mechs before the phoenix pack still need to be looked at, so I can only hope that they review and fix all the necessary hitboxes. VERY SOON.

[Trauglodyte]

xLAVAx, on 02 May 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

So you admit you're a poor shot.

Better than most.

I admit to being such a phenomenal shot that I can make them miss whenever I want

[Clit Beastwood]

FupDup, on 02 May 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

I went through the horrors of Locust grinding as part of my Overlord package, and I can say that I support a Raven hitbox restoration to regular size. Yes, the Locust is in a very, horrifically weak state right now, I don't think most people would disagree with that. However, the Locust's current condition is not the Raven's fault, so the Raven shouldn't have to pay for it.

The locust is better than it was. I *do* see a lot of locust pilots rambo-ing... I assume trying to grind thru lots of matches to level them up. All of them can carry a TAG.. doing so isn't a terrible idea. $$$ - People still don't get it though... If you get killed too much in lights, play like a cockroach. Stay in shadows, run in the low parts of a map, don't be seen. Locusts in the water are hilarious... they disappear!

[Slicer]

Heh i remember abusing the ever living shit out of the old skool CRaven (3 MLs, 2 SSRMs, 295XLE) back during weight matching and 8v8. As a test case i made an alt and playing exclusively StreakMando and CRaven. Yea i had to slog through the non ecm variants of the mechs (fortunately mostly in premades), and most of my deaths came about trying to get basics done on them (yea non ecm Raven being slow as **** i ended up keeping it max speed 80kph boating MLs and SRMs abusing hit reg as a mini tag along front line tank and i didnt waste 1.5mil on DHS). At the high water mark i was at 15-1 KDR, winning 75% of my fights even while pugging most of the time. Alot of losses i was able to frag enemy lights and just evade if my team got rolled (or on conquest try to solo cap to victory). I was able to also pull of a bunch of 1v4 (messed up enemies) come back wins on my lonesome a bunch of times in the Craven.

Yea lights were broken as all hell back then and even the slow Ravens were able to be used effectively due to its messed up hitboxes/reg. I'm a pretty good pilot, 3kdr on all chassis, so for me to crank up a 15kdr with the Streakmando/Craven really goes to show how broken things were.

God now that i think about it, i didnt die all that much in the non ecm Ravens. On the alt account i had no spare engines to swap in (at the time they maxxed at 245, which one would usually get from stock Jenners). So i went 210 XLE (it took a coupla games for me to realize how hard it was to shoot off a torso of a raven so XLE didnt matter), near max armor, MLs, SRMs, as much SHS as i could cram in and i played a good little parasite fighting with the main battleline. Since this was before sniper meta and HSR, i was racking up good damage and some kills focus firing on front line targets. Hiding behind an Atlas's leg worked like a charm, as it gave an enemy a tough choice who to blast, since odds are good i can shrug off incoming fire with my borked hit reg boxes, and mr Atlas is eating your face

Man.... Ravens really deserve the pain coming...

[Trauglodyte]

Fierostetz, on 02 May 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

The locust is better than it was. I *do* see a lot of locust pilots rambo-ing... I assume trying to grind thru lots of matches to level them up. All of them can carry a TAG.. doing so isn't a terrible idea. $$$ - People still don't get it though... If you get killed too much in lights, play like a cockroach. Stay in shadows, run in the low parts of a map, don't be seen. Locusts in the water are hilarious... they disappear!

It is really hard, though, getting people to understand that, even if you're in a Locust with a couple of missiles or just an ER Lrg Laser, you're still better use to the team alive scratching people than you are dead doing nothing. What's worse is people know that the Locust only weighs 20 tons but they still think that they can take the same damage that a Spider or the various 35 tonners can. 16 armor on the legs says that you can't/won't make it very far playing like an idiot on fire.

[Clit Beastwood]

Trauglodyte, on 02 May 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

It is really hard, though, getting people to understand that, even if you're in a Locust with a couple of missiles or just an ER Lrg Laser, you're still better use to the team alive scratching people than you are dead doing nothing. What's worse is people know that the Locust only weighs 20 tons but they still think that they can take the same damage that a Spider or the various 35 tonners can. 16 armor on the legs says that you can't/won't make it very far playing like an idiot on fire.

I run a neon camo'd locust with either 5 meds, or 4 meds and a flamer. I hang out at about 1200m shooting my lasers to draw attention, or my flamer to generate interest. I make sure that turning to face me... means their backs are to my team

[Clint Steel]

I wouldn't mind having better hitboxes, especially for the non 3L's (not that is would make them much more useful). I have to say my 3L is my best mech for both kills and wins.

[FupDup]

Trauglodyte, on 02 May 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

You're correct in that and I'm not saying that the Raven should suffer because of the Locust. What I'm saying, though, is that the original side and center torsos on the Raven were so screwed that they updated them while still being forced to expand the legs just so you could hit the damned things. The irony is that they expanded the Raven legs to be more managable to hit and yet we still have Spider/FS torsos that take nothing (unless you're driving it where they take damage even when you're not getting fired at).

The Raven's old "unhittable-ness" issues were not due to hitboxes. They were due to lagshield. The side torsos were definitely very efficient at damage spreading because they extended along the beak, but that specific part of the mech was not "broken."

As for Spideys and Fuegostarters, I seem to fight them just fine most of the time. I might miss shots fairly often, but that's because I'm a bad pilot who should feel bad. But then again, I have a ping of ~50-60, so I only get hitreg issues once in a blue moon...and the few times I do, it's usually on something like an Atlas or Jagermech lol.

Edited by FupDup, 02 May 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[Foxfire]

Trauglodyte, on 02 May 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

You're correct in that and I'm not saying that the Raven should suffer because of the Locust. What I'm saying, though, is that the original side and center torsos on the Raven were so screwed that they updated them while still being forced to expand the legs just so you could hit the damned things. The irony is that they expanded the Raven legs to be more managable to hit and yet we still have Spider/FS torsos that take nothing (unless you're driving it where they take damage even when you're not getting fired at).

As someone who played since closed beta.. the hit boxes on the Raven was never the problem. It was the faulty implementation of HSR that made the 3L the beast that it was when the hit boxes were expanded.

Originally, pre ECM implementation, the Ravens as a whole were lackluster compared to the other light mechs of the era(Jenners, Commandos).. There was nothing inherently broken about the Raven hit box.. only with the system that they implemented to try to fix their half assed system, HSR.

[Karmen Baric]

ravens legs are pretty much in the way of every other hit box it seems, I only die to legging sicne I came back from break to get my tbolt

[Foxfire]

pictures of stationary targets might not look like much but the biggest issue that this creates is in AoE weaponry. LRM's give a prime example of why this is a horrible situation when you receive the majority of damage on the legs.

Honestly getting disgusted with this game at this point solely because of this. I want to be a Raven Pilot and I don't want to be stuck with the 3L to be a viable Raven pilot.

[RealityCube]

Yeah, knowing the hitbox problems know is making me more angry rather than less. Just played a game where I had my back blown out by LRM's while i was looking at them. The reason I made this thread is because of my frustration dealing with things like this. I love the Raven but the Firestarter is much much better overall.

[RealityCube]

As punctuation, here's what happened to me when I was shot in the front CT with Gauss Rifles the game right after my last post.

http://i.imgur.com/CvAhO5r.jpg

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

HEAR HEAR! The Raven hitboxes need fixed ASAP!