205 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Instead of another request for PGI to rework another existing system, can't we instead just make them finish the missing pieces already? Can you say "Community Warfare"?

Things are already so way behind, why do we want PGI to waste more precious and extremely limited time and resources:

• changing the heat system
  
• creating another matchmaker
  
• changing the hardpoint system
  
• nerfing/buffing disliked/liked weapons
  
• etc., etc., etc.

Edited by Mystere, 22 April 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

101011, on 22 April 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

You did gloss over the Clan customization, that being, IS 'Mechs are already improved omnies. And there is such a thing as a one shot kill, it is called a headshot/stupid light. That being said, I agree that hardpoint limitations are not the way to go.

Edge cases of one-shots don't apply, as it has too little to do with the build, and head shots are part of the game.

I skipped the Clan reference because IS mechs are NOT improved Omnis. IS have always been customize-able. The long lists of field mods and canon custom mechs attests to that, as well as the very rules of the IP. Omni technology was more about being able to do it quickly to fit the mission, and with built-in CASE. The only reason IS mechs beat that in MWO is because there's no time element to the game, forcing the owner to do without the mech for weeks or more while work is done on his mech. If I had a say, they'd allow Omnis to pick from pre-selected load-outs during the pre-match, after they know the map, mode and such, to emulate it, but they didn't ask me.

[Mystere]

OneEyed Jack, on 22 April 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

If I had a say, they'd allow Omnis to pick from pre-selected load-outs during the pre-match, after they know the map, mode and such, to emulate it, but they didn't ask me.

On second look, that is not a bad idea at all. The only problem is that almost(?) everyone and their pet goat will probably join the Clans.

[moneyBURNER]

The current system doesn't adequately account for tradeoffs or feasibility (having 14+ tons of weapons in one arm of a light mech with no effect on mobility and vulnerability). If a reasonable level of realism is desired, then these issues should be considered, as they are in the design visions for the stock loadouts.

Sized hardpoints are an ideal compromise for allowing customization while justifying the existence and intent of a particular mech design.

[Fut]

Mystere, on 22 April 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

Instead of another request for PGI to rework another existing system, can't we instead just make them finish the missing pieces already? Can you say "Community Warfare"?

Things are already so way behind, why do we want PGI to waste more precious and extremely limited time and resources:

• changing the heat system
  
• creating another matchmaker
  
• changing the hardpoint system
  
• nerfing/buffing disliked/liked weapons
  
• etc., etc., etc.

Some would prefer to get things right before moving on - playing a completed, but broken game wouldn't be fun for them.

As much as I'd love to see some of these suggestions implemented in game, MWO is actually fun to play in it's current form. PGI should steer the course and come out with the next step of their vision - the glorious CW that everybody has been dreaming of for years.
Whether it's all just a pipe dream or not, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that PGI continues to develop the game after CW comes around. "Develop" to hopefully include things like an improved heat scale, sized-hardpoints, better quirks for the different variants..etc.

[Eddrick]

I would like Hardpoint Size Restrictions to only allow something to take up as many Critical Slots in that Hardpoint as the Stock Build. Just like MechWarrior 4 had. But, also restricting the number of weapons that can go into that Hardpoint as we have now in MechWarrior Online.

[Mystere]

Fut, on 22 April 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Some would prefer to get things right before moving on - playing a completed, but broken game wouldn't be fun for them.

As much as I'd love to see some of these suggestions implemented in game, MWO is actually fun to play in it's current form. PGI should steer the course and come out with the next step of their vision - the glorious CW that everybody has been dreaming of for years.
Whether it's all just a pipe dream or not, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that PGI continues to develop the game after CW comes around. "Develop" to hopefully include things like an improved heat scale, sized-hardpoints, better quirks for the different variants..etc.

I think things as they are right now are good enough, hence my desire for PGI to just finish things first. Have them revisit the other areas later.

[GreyGriffin]

I have actually been churning this over a bit lately, and have come to the conclusion that a combination of hardpoints and limited crit slots for those hardpoints is the best solution. It would allow hardpoint counts to be more generous and flexible without worrying about massive PPC/AC 20 boating.

[Hellcat420]

OneEyed Jack, on 22 April 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

Reasons this as stupid now as it ever was....
Boating - Not a problem. But if it was, does it really matter if it's on one chassis or another?
One shot kill monsters - Um... what one-shot kills?
Mechs carrying weapons they were never designed for - Stupid argument. The IP (and previous incarnations of MW) have always had customization. This is nothing but "that mech can have these weapons, but this mech can't because.... THINGS!
Reason for ghost heat being there - There are no reasons for ghost heat worth mentioning.
Opens up the rarely used chassis's 'cos they can do things the others can't - Because some people are too effing dense to realize that the only chassis that would matter would be the very few that could do very specific things, and other chassis would actually be used less or not at all.

In short, telling people that if they want to play a certain style, whatever that style might be, they can only do it in a given chassis does NOT, in any way, increase diversity or stop the bad people from touching you.

innersphere mechs could not always customize their weapons in the ip, and clan wolf did not give the innersphere the idea for refit kits until 3051-3052. the mechwarrior games are a bad example to try to reference when it comes to the ip since they were all pretty crappy representations of how battlemechs worked.

[Hellcat420]

OneEyed Jack, on 22 April 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

Edge cases of one-shots don't apply, as it has too little to do with the build, and head shots are part of the game.

I skipped the Clan reference because IS mechs are NOT improved Omnis. IS have always been customize-able. The long lists of field mods and canon custom mechs attests to that, as well as the very rules of the IP. Omni technology was more about being able to do it quickly to fit the mission, and with built-in CASE. The only reason IS mechs beat that in MWO is because there's no time element to the game, forcing the owner to do without the mech for weeks or more while work is done on his mech. If I had a say, they'd allow Omnis to pick from pre-selected load-outs during the pre-match, after they know the map, mode and such, to emulate it, but they didn't ask me.

innersphere mechs are not always fully customizable. it depends on what part of the timeline you are in. before 3051-3052 you are stuck with the weapons your mech has from the factory if you follow the lore.

[OneEyed Jack]

Hellcat420, on 22 April 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

innersphere mechs could not always customize their weapons in the ip, and clan wolf did not give the innersphere the idea for refit kits until 3051-3052. the mechwarrior games are a bad example to try to reference when it comes to the ip since they were all pretty crappy representations of how battlemechs worked.

There have been construction/customization rules in the IP since the beginning, and customized mechs and refits (field or otherwise) have been in the lore since the early days of the fiction and since at least the first TRO.

[Hellcat420]

OneEyed Jack, on 22 April 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

There have been construction/customization rules in the IP since the beginning, and customized mechs and refits (field or otherwise) have been in the lore since the early days of the fiction and since at least the first TRO.

there have been construction rules, not construction/customization rules. those rules were for building new mechs, not customizing existing mechs. just because people used those rules for things they were not made for does not mean that the lore or how the game functions is automatically changed. the only custom innersphere mechs before 3052 were the "hero" mechs, which were extremely rare. only a handful of people in the whole galaxy had the political capital and money to have a mech customized, since you had to shut down an entire mech production line for an extended period of time to customize a single mech. in 3051 during the outreach conference clan wolf gave the innersphere the idea for refit kits to customize their mechs and have a better chance at fighting back against the clans. before that if you were an innersphere mechwarrior you had the weapons your mech came with from the factory. hell, look up the definition of classic battlemech and omnimech.

[OneEyed Jack]

Hellcat420, on 22 April 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

there have been construction rules, not construction/customization rules. those rules were for building new mechs, not customizing existing mechs. just because people used those rules for things they were not made for does not mean that the lore or how the game functions is automatically changed. the only custom innersphere mechs before 3052 were the "hero" mechs, which were extremely rare. only a handful of people in the whole galaxy had the political capital and money to have a mech customized, since you had to shut down an entire mech production line for an extended period of time to customize a single mech. in 3051 during the outreach conference clan wolf gave the innersphere the idea for refit kits to customize their mechs and have a better chance at fighting back against the clans. before that if you were an innersphere mechwarrior you had the weapons your mech came with from the factory. hell, look up the definition of classic battlemech and omnimech.

No. Just no.

"Herp, derp, no customization rules..." Ok, I'll construct a mech that's exactly the same chassis, but with the changes I want. STFU.

Refit kits are not, NOT, NOT the only common modifications. There are numerous cases in both lore and TRO (official game manuals) of people swapping weapons because they didn't like the one that came with it, or it was unreliable, or used too much ammo for the pilot's (or some commander up the chain's) liking, or various other reasons. Some of the standard variants are nothing more than production copies of things being done by techs on individual machines, because they were so common. And no, it did not require shutting down entire production lines.

The refit kits designed during the Clan invasion were just standardized refits that included all the new tech parts to upgrade older models to new tech. They essentially did the exact same thing as custom refits, but presumably included all the little bits, and replacements for other parts that had to be swapped to make them fit, whereas custom refits would require machining new mounts, finding bolts to fit, making custom wire harnesses and the like. Refit kits were not some some rainbow-glowy magic boxes that accomplished through handwavium what a skilled tech couldn't do with all the components and a machine shop.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 22 April 2014 - 05:07 PM.

[Sybreed]

look one-eyed jack, everyone who talked to you has been polite and respectful of your opinion, it would be the ******* least of you to do the same

[Jenkss]

So many people have posted so many great ideas for sized hardpoints. Yet PGI hasn't ever (as far as we know) even considered going for it.

Why?

With the system we have now, IS mechs are almost more customisable than Omnis, or are more customisable given PGIs current plans for implementation. Isn't this the opposite of how it was supposed to be?

Mechs like the Awesome see very little use because the thing they were designed to do (boat PPCs) can be done by anyone. I can fit the same loadout the Awesome carried into a medium. How is this right?

[1453 R]

The people who think sized hardpoints would do anything whatsoever except squeeze out the eighty percent of BattleMechs/variants that didn’t just-so-happen to have the correct configuration of ‘large’ hardpoints are out of their minds.

Forcing people to run stock-plus-DHS configurations – and don’t even kid yourselves, that’s what sized hardpoints amounts to - wouldn’t open up a brand new dazzling utopia of diversity and awesomeness, it would squeeze every single pilot who wants to not stink into the relatively tiny handful of stock builds that make any froggin’ sense. You almost completely eliminate customization as an option in this game and you don’t even solve the problem you’re trying to solve. You just shuffle around which particular chassis is Da Best Meta.

How is this even still a consideration in people’s brains? I can almost understand the convergence people, even if the notion of an FPS player demanding “I don’t actually want to hit what I’m aiming at!” boggles my mind. But two minutes’ thought disarms sized hardpoints entirely as a balancing mechanic, oh and also IT ELIMINATES ANY/ALL MEANINGFUL CUSTOMIZATION FROM MWO.

Really, guys…just move on.

[Hellcat420]

OneEyed Jack, on 22 April 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

No. Just no.

"Herp, derp, no customization rules..." Ok, I'll construct a mech that's exactly the same chassis, but with the changes I want. STFU.

Refit kits are not, NOT, NOT the only common modifications. There are numerous cases in both lore and TRO (official game manuals) of people swapping weapons because they didn't like the one that came with it, or it was unreliable, or used too much ammo for the pilot's (or some commander up the chain's) liking, or various other reasons. Some of the standard variants are nothing more than production copies of things being done by techs on individual machines, because they were so common. And no, it did not require shutting down entire production lines.

The refit kits designed during the Clan invasion were just standardized refits that included all the new tech parts to upgrade older models to new tech. They essentially did the exact same thing as custom refits, but presumably included all the little bits, and replacements for other parts that had to be swapped to make them fit, whereas custom refits would require machining new mounts, finding bolts to fit, making custom wire harnesses and the like. Refit kits were not some some rainbow-glowy magic boxes that accomplished through handwavium what a skilled tech couldn't do with all the components and a machine shop.

haha when your gonna post a load of bs you shouldnt start with idiotic insults.

[OneEyed Jack]

Hellcat420, on 22 April 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

haha when your gonna post a load of bs you shouldnt start with idiotic insults.

If I was going to post a load of BS, I wouldn't. Furthermore, the word insult has connotations I don't feel apply here.

[Mcgral18]

1453 R, on 22 April 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

The people who think sized hardpoints would do anything whatsoever except squeeze out the eighty percent of BattleMechs/variants that didn’t just-so-happen to have the correct configuration of ‘large’ hardpoints are out of their minds.

Forcing people to run stock-plus-DHS configurations – and don’t even kid yourselves, that’s what sized hardpoints amounts to - wouldn’t open up a brand new dazzling utopia of diversity and awesomeness, it would squeeze every single pilot who wants to not stink into the relatively tiny handful of stock builds that make any froggin’ sense. You almost completely eliminate customization as an option in this game and you don’t even solve the problem you’re trying to solve. You just shuffle around which particular chassis is Da Best Meta.

How is this even still a consideration in people’s brains? I can almost understand the convergence people, even if the notion of an FPS player demanding “I don’t actually want to hit what I’m aiming at!” boggles my mind. But two minutes’ thought disarms sized hardpoints entirely as a balancing mechanic, oh and also IT ELIMINATES ANY/ALL MEANINGFUL CUSTOMIZATION FROM MWO.

Really, guys…just move on.

And this is worse than every mech being the same? With varients ignored because they don't have enough hardpoints.

Some mechs come with larger weapons mounted on them. They pay for it with engine or armor. MWO's system ignores all of that, and all mechs of the same category has the exact same max armor.

Making some sort of difference instead of just # of hardpoints across mechs would go a long way to make them unique.

[Hellcat420]

OneEyed Jack, on 22 April 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

If I was going to post a load of BS, I wouldn't. Furthermore, the word insult has connotations I don't feel apply here.

your post is a load of bs, and going by your post you dont have a clue about how battlemechs actually work in the battletech lore.